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I still tend to discover a takeaway or restaurant and then figure out how to get them to deliver. I've never not ordered from somewhere I was keen on based on

I still tend to discover a takeaway or restaurant and then figure out how to get them to deliver. I've never not ordered from somewhere I was keen on based on their choice of delivery service. If the consolidation results in price hikes and poor service, what's the lock-in? Why can't the takeaways just go rogue and offer independent deliveries?

spacephysics 1y ago
Lots of their infrastructure for handling orders (iPads, software integration into their payment system) was done around Covid, and some have started to integrate in-person orders through the same “single unified system” creating a higher and higher cost to switch delivery systems. AFAIK there’s no well-supported open source order/delivery management software. The companies that were ready during covid took all the extra, enormous demand for building delivery and order online systems built atop a typically antiquated order management system and have stuck around since Sometimes i’ll get a cheaper delivery/food cost calling vs ordering online, but now some places are just raising their other prices to match online
- b112 1y ago
  And yet, why do you need software? In the 80s, I delivered pizza with no software. The place had a normal cash register, for pickups. People would call, order, and we'd write it down. They it'd go on a wire with a clothes pin, until made. Then it went with the driver. Each delivery was written down before leaving with it. This worked for decades for everyone in the industry, flawlessly, perfectly, without issue. Why is software required? Any given reasons are an unneccessary complication. And here's the thing. Even in Palo Alto I order from companies still doing it this way. The above system, paperwork wise .. again, is perfect. It's been done forever. It is faster and far less expensive than any unified payment and order system. Seems to me, they're the smart ones.
  - asdf6969 1y ago
    Everyone hates calling and apps give customers a list of restaurants with menus to browse. Restaurants also do all of their in-restaurant management with software (why not paper? ask them idk) which I assume has some integration with the app. I can imagine some type of open protocol that lets them self-host an order service though, or at least an open solution that’s hosted by many providers and many separate apps. That would be nice for everyone
    - b112 1y ago
      Maybe we should all make the world a better place, suck it up, and just call? Maybe making the world a better place, means human interaction and less automation.
      - asdf6969 1y ago
        That would make my own world worse
      - pizza 1y ago
        Say what you will but customers pay to not suck it up
      - Dylan16807 1y ago
        There's no reason this software has to be expensive. I'd rather fix the software in this case. And phones in particular suck when you involve real-world connection quality and accents.
    - Yeul 1y ago
      I remember when McDonald's didn't have kiosks. Human interaction with a fast food worker is vastly overrated. Both sides hated it.
  - notatoad 1y ago
    as long as you've got enough order volume to keep a delivery driver consistently busy, that works fine and the apps are unnecessary. for a pizza restaurant, or anybody else focused on delivery orders, the apps aren't necessary the utility of the apps is to distribute the load from multiple restaurants across a shared pool of delivery drivers, so a restaurant who otherwise wouldn't be able to offer delivery can tap into that labour pool for infrequent delivery orders. food delivery apps have greatly expanded the number of places that offer delivery. most restaurants simply didn't offer it before the apps.
    - b112 1y ago
      Once you have multiple restaurants, you leave the mom and pop shop scenario, and move into realms of more sensible optimization. But there are so many independents. And they make very good food. And they still do it without apps, and do very well.
6510 1y ago
I only order from places that deliver themselves.
to11mtm 1y ago
> Why can't the takeaways just go rogue and offer independent deliveries? Because many of these delivery 'ad-hoc contractors'[0], sometimes even eating cost [1]. Pre-covid, you were often best off as a business either doing something that was 'known' to be delivery offered (i.e. pizza) or your next best option was to aggressively advertise it and have an extra staffer on hand willing to do the deed. Then, you've also got the other form of arbitrage (or perhaps a cost thereof), of smaller independent restaurants/chains being unwilling or unable to handle the costs of properly covering drivers [2] and their pay when not driving [3]. Some restaurants started doing delivery during covid and kept it going. However most around here dropped because the volume wasn't worth it to them, on top of the 'streamlined flow' (don't need to give a route, the app the person picking up the 'pick-up' order is handling, does that for them.) I'm not saying I like it but I get how it got here. [0] - Remember that in the early days some of these companies would do all sorts of weird things like just have someone order on behalf. [1] - There's an article about this involving 'pizza arbitrage' here https://www.readmargins.com/p/doordash-and-pizza-arbitrage https://www.readmargins.com/p/doordash-and-pizza-arbitrage [2] - To be clear, both the startups as well as locals have a checkered history when it comes to proper coverage... [3] - One can argue that such a person can be made 'useful' during the waiting time, however it becomes a complicated equation between 'what can this person be paid to do' vs 'are they willing to do it for that base'.
- NaOH 1y ago
  Regarding your link to the article on pizza arbitrage, DoorDash and Pizza Arbitrage (2020) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40806356 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40806356 - June 2024 (147 comments) DoorDash and pizza arbitrage (2020) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32086170 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32086170 - July 2022 (230 comments) Doordash and Pizza Arbitrage - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23216852 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23216852 - May 2020 (518 comments)
bawolff 1y ago
> Why can't the takeaways just go rogue and offer independent deliveries? Because delivery is really expensive. To do it well over a large area you have to have a lot of staff. You also want to keep them all busy, so it works better with a lot of resturants. Margins are thin, lots of risk in an area that is very different from the core activity of the resturant. Its an almost textbook example of a situation where a specialist company makes sense.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

spacephysics 1y ago

Lots of their infrastructure for handling orders (iPads, software integration into their payment system) was done around Covid, and some have started to integrate in-person orders through the same “single unified system” creating a higher and higher cost to switch delivery systems. AFAIK there’s no well-supported open source order/delivery management software. The companies that were ready during covid took all the extra, enormous demand for building delivery and order online systems built atop a typically antiquated order management system and have stuck around since Sometimes i’ll get a cheaper delivery/food cost calling vs ordering online, but now some places are just raising their other prices to match online

b112 1y ago
And yet, why do you need software? In the 80s, I delivered pizza with no software. The place had a normal cash register, for pickups. People would call, order, and we'd write it down. They it'd go on a wire with a clothes pin, until made. Then it went with the driver. Each delivery was written down before leaving with it. This worked for decades for everyone in the industry, flawlessly, perfectly, without issue. Why is software required? Any given reasons are an unneccessary complication. And here's the thing. Even in Palo Alto I order from companies still doing it this way. The above system, paperwork wise .. again, is perfect. It's been done forever. It is faster and far less expensive than any unified payment and order system. Seems to me, they're the smart ones.
- asdf6969 1y ago
  Everyone hates calling and apps give customers a list of restaurants with menus to browse. Restaurants also do all of their in-restaurant management with software (why not paper? ask them idk) which I assume has some integration with the app. I can imagine some type of open protocol that lets them self-host an order service though, or at least an open solution that’s hosted by many providers and many separate apps. That would be nice for everyone
  - b112 1y ago
    Maybe we should all make the world a better place, suck it up, and just call? Maybe making the world a better place, means human interaction and less automation.
    - asdf6969 1y ago
      That would make my own world worse
    - pizza 1y ago
      Say what you will but customers pay to not suck it up
    - Dylan16807 1y ago
      There's no reason this software has to be expensive. I'd rather fix the software in this case. And phones in particular suck when you involve real-world connection quality and accents.
  - Yeul 1y ago
    I remember when McDonald's didn't have kiosks. Human interaction with a fast food worker is vastly overrated. Both sides hated it.
- notatoad 1y ago
  as long as you've got enough order volume to keep a delivery driver consistently busy, that works fine and the apps are unnecessary. for a pizza restaurant, or anybody else focused on delivery orders, the apps aren't necessary the utility of the apps is to distribute the load from multiple restaurants across a shared pool of delivery drivers, so a restaurant who otherwise wouldn't be able to offer delivery can tap into that labour pool for infrequent delivery orders. food delivery apps have greatly expanded the number of places that offer delivery. most restaurants simply didn't offer it before the apps.
  - b112 1y ago
    Once you have multiple restaurants, you leave the mom and pop shop scenario, and move into realms of more sensible optimization. But there are so many independents. And they make very good food. And they still do it without apps, and do very well.

6510 1y ago

I only order from places that deliver themselves.

to11mtm 1y ago

> Why can't the takeaways just go rogue and offer independent deliveries? Because many of these delivery 'ad-hoc contractors'[0], sometimes even eating cost [1]. Pre-covid, you were often best off as a business either doing something that was 'known' to be delivery offered (i.e. pizza) or your next best option was to aggressively advertise it and have an extra staffer on hand willing to do the deed. Then, you've also got the other form of arbitrage (or perhaps a cost thereof), of smaller independent restaurants/chains being unwilling or unable to handle the costs of properly covering drivers [2] and their pay when not driving [3]. Some restaurants started doing delivery during covid and kept it going. However most around here dropped because the volume wasn't worth it to them, on top of the 'streamlined flow' (don't need to give a route, the app the person picking up the 'pick-up' order is handling, does that for them.) I'm not saying I like it but I get how it got here. [0] - Remember that in the early days some of these companies would do all sorts of weird things like just have someone order on behalf. [1] - There's an article about this involving 'pizza arbitrage' here https://www.readmargins.com/p/doordash-and-pizza-arbitrage https://www.readmargins.com/p/doordash-and-pizza-arbitrage [2] - To be clear, both the startups as well as locals have a checkered history when it comes to proper coverage... [3] - One can argue that such a person can be made 'useful' during the waiting time, however it becomes a complicated equation between 'what can this person be paid to do' vs 'are they willing to do it for that base'.

NaOH 1y ago
Regarding your link to the article on pizza arbitrage, DoorDash and Pizza Arbitrage (2020) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40806356 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40806356 - June 2024 (147 comments) DoorDash and pizza arbitrage (2020) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32086170 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32086170 - July 2022 (230 comments) Doordash and Pizza Arbitrage - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23216852 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23216852 - May 2020 (518 comments)

bawolff 1y ago

> Why can't the takeaways just go rogue and offer independent deliveries? Because delivery is really expensive. To do it well over a large area you have to have a lot of staff. You also want to keep them all busy, so it works better with a lot of resturants. Margins are thin, lots of risk in an area that is very different from the core activity of the resturant. Its an almost textbook example of a situation where a specialist company makes sense.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]