7 ms·

As an Apple fanboy, I've been able to rationalize everything Apple has done concerning the app-store up to now, even if I personally would have like to have see

by rickmb 14y ago

As an Apple fanboy, I've been able to rationalize everything Apple has done concerning the app-store up to now, even if I personally would have like to have seen a way more open and liberal approach. And the overblown anti-Apple FUD, using misplaced terms like "censorship" and "monopoly" whenever an app was thwarted by Apples opaque policies has made it easy to ignore the objections of detractors. But I find it impossible to justify what is quite obviously a politically motivated rejection. I still believe this is Apple's store, and they can admit and reject what they like. But if politics comes into it, than that changes my personal perspective on buying Apple products. Just imagine if the subject would be "places that legalize gay marriage" instead of drone strikes. The only "objectionable" part of the drone strike app is that it may have a political agenda. That should never be grounds for rejection.

dlikhten 14y ago
Android FTW. I know this pops up constantly, but this is EXACTLY the reason I advocate for android. This sort of shit does not fly there. Apple has the ability to censor which even the government can't and worse is that it's fully legal. I really wish people would take these stories as a sign that we need to focus on the android market. FWIW: I am not advocating for the baby & bathwater argument. I think we must focus on android because it will put market pressure on apple to have a more fair/just approval process.
- stephengillie 14y ago
  Even if both Google's and Amazon's app stores reject an app, there are still other markets. And you can just download APKs from websites/ftp/etc and install them to your android, no market required.
  - nivla 14y ago
    That is until all the three (Apple, Google and Microsoft) decides to only allow installs from the maketplace, you know for "security" reasons. The problem is if one company gets away with it, others follow suit.
    - adambyrtek 14y ago
      I don't get your logic. Apple pretty much got away with it, Microsoft wasn't really in this space at that time, and still Google didn't follow.
    - stephengillie 14y ago
      If Google decides to only allow installs from their market, someone will just fork android and change that.
      - philwelch 14y ago
        And how will that fork get on any phones for customers to use? "People can just sideload the OS" is not a feasible answer here.
        chimeracoder 14y ago
        > "People can just sideload the OS" is not a feasible answer here. Well, it's not feasible as long as bootloaders remain encrypted/non-unlockable. That's the problem with restricting the software that can run on hardware after the user has purchased the hardware and owns it.
        fpgeek 14y ago
        People will just buy different Android phones from someone else. We've already been through this. AT&T (uniquely among US carriers, I believe) blocked non-Market applications on all of their devices. The success of the Amazon Appstore forced them to change that policy.
        mcpherrinm 14y ago
        Saying "the success" was what caused it isn't really accurate, though. If it hadn't been for a large, US corporation lobbying AT&T to allow their product on the handsets, would it have gone through? A future where AT&T allows the Amazon and Google app stores only is still one that could happen.
      - 14y ago
- enraged_camel 14y ago
  While this is true, security is a massive concern. Just look at how many malicious apps were in the Android store just last year, vs. in the Apple store.
  - hammersend 14y ago
    This has absolutely nothing to do with the issue being discussed. Google could clamp down hard on security if they wanted to and still not reject apps for political reasons like Apple appear to do.
  - nutjob123 14y ago
    How many malicious apps were in the Android store? A few? A dozen? Thats a pretty good ratio out of the hundreds of thousands available.
    - ralfd 14y ago
      On a similar line of argument: "How many blocked apps were in the App Store? A few? A dozen? Thats a pretty good ratio out of the hundreds of thousands available."
      - dripton 14y ago
        How would you know how many apps were blocked, if they never showed up in the store?
      - mechnik 14y ago
        I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings The free bird leaps on the back of the win and floats downstream till the current ends and dips his wings in the orange sun rays and dares to claim the sky. But a bird that stalks down his narrow cage can seldom see through his bars of rage his wings are clipped and his feet are tied so he opens his throat to sing. The caged bird sings with fearful trill of the things unknown but longed for still and is tune is heard on the distant hillfor the caged bird sings of freedom The free bird thinks of another breeze an the trade winds soft through the sighing trees and the fat worms waiting on a dawn-bright lawn and he names the sky his own. But a caged bird stands on the grave of dreams his shadow shouts on a nightmare scream his wings are clipped and his feet are tied so he opens his throat to sing The caged bird sings with a fearful trill of things unknown but longed for still and his tune is heard on the distant hill for the caged bird sings of freedom. Maya Angelou
- at-fates-hands 14y ago
  I actually would've thought the MS Windows Phone App Store would be even more fertile ground. Not sure how stringent their policies are, but a quick Google search only turned up a rejected Twitter content scraping app which was rejected. Not to mention if anybody needs more apps, its the Windows Phone App store.
  - vaultboy21 14y ago
    Yeah, as far as I know, the Windows Phone Store certification policies are pretty lax (not sure if that’s reflected in their official terms or their implementation of them; I’m guessing it’s the latter). The only times I hear of apps being rejected or pulled seem to in cases of trademark infringement; and, even-then, only if the infringed-upon company requests them to do so.. I saw this play-out with Vimeo apps not too long ago. Prior to the company launching their (really nice btw) official app there were a few a third-party clients which used the Vimeo name and logo; since then, they've all rebranded or disappeared (I’m guessing at the request of Vimeo to avoid confusion). Other than that, pretty much everything else seems to fly (I’m guessing security issues and serious bugs that come-up during review aside). This is all anecdotal (I don’t work at Microsoft or review apps for certification) but I’d be pretty shocked if they blocked an app like this. Anyways, it looks pretty cool, maybe if iOS certification doesn’t go over the dev can port it to WP. For simpler apps (no offense here) I’ve heard it’s fairly quick work and involves a lot less on the testing/optimizing for 1,000+ device SKUs (Android) front.
  - mtgx 14y ago
    The WP store is a little more relaxed than the iOS app store - but - it still doesn't have any way to sideload any apps, which means it's still up to Microsoft, a single central entity, to decide what apps you can install on your device. The same is true for any Metro apps.
    - dnissley 14y ago
      Does the WP SDK give you the ability to sideload apps? At the very least, WP is different from iOS in that their SDK is provided for free (using the express edition of Visual Studio).
lukeschlather 14y ago
This is not the first time that Apple has rejected an app on purely political grounds. This may be the first time they've removed something and offended liberal/libertarian sensibilities, but a couple clear examples from a while back: http://mashable.com/2011/03/23/apple-removes-gay-cure/ http://mashable.com/2011/03/23/apple-removes-gay-cure/ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/24/apple-manhattan-declaration-app_n_788075.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/24/apple-manhattan-dec...
- ktizo 14y ago
  Or rejecting apps by pulitzer prize winning political cartoonists for "Ridiculing Public Figures" - http://www.tuaw.com/2010/04/15/when-youre-good-enough-for-a-pulitzer-but-not-the-app-store/ http://www.tuaw.com/2010/04/15/when-youre-good-enough-for-a-...
  - pooriaazimi 14y ago
    Jobs responded to that case at D8 conference. He said it was a mistake ("We had a rule: you can't defame people. We thought it was sane to have such a rule, but the problem is that political cartoons, by definition, defame politicians. So, we made an exception for political cartoons") and they soon changed their guidelines to let the app in, but the developer never bothered to re-submit the app.
    - ktizo 14y ago
      That app isn't defamatory though. Caricature isn't defamatory without associated symbolism or represented actions to make claims about the individual represented. Drawing a silly picture isn't enough, you would have to draw a picture of someone doing something negative that they do not do, in a way that implies to the viewer that this person really does this thing and that you are not just joking about it.
  - tripzilch 14y ago
    Well that's the problem eh, you can't do censorship without bumping into hypocrisy (be it on the left or the right side). UPDATE: NYT is reporting Mr. Fiore has been "encouraged" by Apple to re-submit. So the lesson here? Win a Pulitzer, get a 2nd chance at the App Store. Cute. Also this part, so very clearly underlines the reason why so many people start screaming about slippery slopes as soon as censorship enters the picture (even though the article's author does not seem to realize this): Look Apple, I supported some of your bans in the past -- like your ban on sexy junk apps -- but political cartooning is *slightly* different. First they came for the "sexy junk" apps, but I didn't speak out ...
ralfd 14y ago
That said, why has simplistic stuff like this to be an App? You could implement that in an email newsletter, a Twitter account, an RSS feed. An old-fashioned web site. > politically motivated rejection Probably that is the reason. But when I first heard of that App I did think of "torture porn". You practically track the death of people. How is that App used? Imagine being at lunch and you get a new notification. What do you do with that kind of Information? Why do you want that? Certainly not to grief, because it would desensitize you. I imagine the people who would install it (and leave it installed) would be from the opposite side of the spectrum and militaristic nuts: "Hell yeah, another 7 terrorist brownies taken down!"
- icarus127 14y ago
  How is that App used? Imagine being at launch and you get a new notification. What do you do with that kind of Information? Why do you want that? I for one would want that because we're so separated from our actions that even those of us who are appalled by it don't think about it daily. I say _our_ because we as a people could put the screws to our government if enough of us actually cared. As to what you do with it, I think the intent is to start a conversation then and there. Tell other people what just happened, tell them to install the app. If that happens enough times I think it might jar something loose in the social consciousness. It sounds better than sticking my head in the sand and pretending it's not happening. As for being desensitized, are you serious? _That's_ your argument against raising awareness of drone strikes? We're already desensitized to the violence we perpetrate on others. It doesn't even make the news if it has to compete with the latest celebrity gossip.
thwest 14y ago
Stifling of political opinions by a media corporation is no less censorship than actions undertaken by a government. You can check the dictionary, there are plenty of non-governmental definitions.
fpgeek 14y ago
This isn't the first time Apple's removed an app for political reasons: http://techland.time.com/2011/03/23/apple-removes-ex-gay-content-from-app-store/ http://techland.time.com/2011/03/23/apple-removes-ex-gay-con... Now, I happen to agree with the politics in that case, but it also illustrates the broader point: A curated app store is inevitably entangled in politics. Approving an app can be just as political a decision as rejecting it.

by rickmb 14y ago

dlikhten 14y ago

Android FTW. I know this pops up constantly, but this is EXACTLY the reason I advocate for android. This sort of shit does not fly there. Apple has the ability to censor which even the government can't and worse is that it's fully legal. I really wish people would take these stories as a sign that we need to focus on the android market. FWIW: I am not advocating for the baby & bathwater argument. I think we must focus on android because it will put market pressure on apple to have a more fair/just approval process.

stephengillie 14y ago
Even if both Google's and Amazon's app stores reject an app, there are still other markets. And you can just download APKs from websites/ftp/etc and install them to your android, no market required.
- nivla 14y ago
  That is until all the three (Apple, Google and Microsoft) decides to only allow installs from the maketplace, you know for "security" reasons. The problem is if one company gets away with it, others follow suit.
  - adambyrtek 14y ago
    I don't get your logic. Apple pretty much got away with it, Microsoft wasn't really in this space at that time, and still Google didn't follow.
  - stephengillie 14y ago
    If Google decides to only allow installs from their market, someone will just fork android and change that.
    - philwelch 14y ago
      And how will that fork get on any phones for customers to use? "People can just sideload the OS" is not a feasible answer here.
      - chimeracoder 14y ago
        > "People can just sideload the OS" is not a feasible answer here. Well, it's not feasible as long as bootloaders remain encrypted/non-unlockable. That's the problem with restricting the software that can run on hardware after the user has purchased the hardware and owns it.
      - fpgeek 14y ago
        People will just buy different Android phones from someone else. We've already been through this. AT&T (uniquely among US carriers, I believe) blocked non-Market applications on all of their devices. The success of the Amazon Appstore forced them to change that policy.
        mcpherrinm 14y ago
        Saying "the success" was what caused it isn't really accurate, though. If it hadn't been for a large, US corporation lobbying AT&T to allow their product on the handsets, would it have gone through? A future where AT&T allows the Amazon and Google app stores only is still one that could happen.
    - 14y ago
enraged_camel 14y ago
While this is true, security is a massive concern. Just look at how many malicious apps were in the Android store just last year, vs. in the Apple store.
- hammersend 14y ago
  This has absolutely nothing to do with the issue being discussed. Google could clamp down hard on security if they wanted to and still not reject apps for political reasons like Apple appear to do.
- nutjob123 14y ago
  How many malicious apps were in the Android store? A few? A dozen? Thats a pretty good ratio out of the hundreds of thousands available.
  - ralfd 14y ago
    On a similar line of argument: "How many blocked apps were in the App Store? A few? A dozen? Thats a pretty good ratio out of the hundreds of thousands available."
    - dripton 14y ago
      How would you know how many apps were blocked, if they never showed up in the store?
    - mechnik 14y ago
      I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings The free bird leaps on the back of the win and floats downstream till the current ends and dips his wings in the orange sun rays and dares to claim the sky. But a bird that stalks down his narrow cage can seldom see through his bars of rage his wings are clipped and his feet are tied so he opens his throat to sing. The caged bird sings with fearful trill of the things unknown but longed for still and is tune is heard on the distant hillfor the caged bird sings of freedom The free bird thinks of another breeze an the trade winds soft through the sighing trees and the fat worms waiting on a dawn-bright lawn and he names the sky his own. But a caged bird stands on the grave of dreams his shadow shouts on a nightmare scream his wings are clipped and his feet are tied so he opens his throat to sing The caged bird sings with a fearful trill of things unknown but longed for still and his tune is heard on the distant hill for the caged bird sings of freedom. Maya Angelou
at-fates-hands 14y ago
I actually would've thought the MS Windows Phone App Store would be even more fertile ground. Not sure how stringent their policies are, but a quick Google search only turned up a rejected Twitter content scraping app which was rejected. Not to mention if anybody needs more apps, its the Windows Phone App store.
- vaultboy21 14y ago
  Yeah, as far as I know, the Windows Phone Store certification policies are pretty lax (not sure if that’s reflected in their official terms or their implementation of them; I’m guessing it’s the latter). The only times I hear of apps being rejected or pulled seem to in cases of trademark infringement; and, even-then, only if the infringed-upon company requests them to do so.. I saw this play-out with Vimeo apps not too long ago. Prior to the company launching their (really nice btw) official app there were a few a third-party clients which used the Vimeo name and logo; since then, they've all rebranded or disappeared (I’m guessing at the request of Vimeo to avoid confusion). Other than that, pretty much everything else seems to fly (I’m guessing security issues and serious bugs that come-up during review aside). This is all anecdotal (I don’t work at Microsoft or review apps for certification) but I’d be pretty shocked if they blocked an app like this. Anyways, it looks pretty cool, maybe if iOS certification doesn’t go over the dev can port it to WP. For simpler apps (no offense here) I’ve heard it’s fairly quick work and involves a lot less on the testing/optimizing for 1,000+ device SKUs (Android) front.
- mtgx 14y ago
  The WP store is a little more relaxed than the iOS app store - but - it still doesn't have any way to sideload any apps, which means it's still up to Microsoft, a single central entity, to decide what apps you can install on your device. The same is true for any Metro apps.
  - dnissley 14y ago
    Does the WP SDK give you the ability to sideload apps? At the very least, WP is different from iOS in that their SDK is provided for free (using the express edition of Visual Studio).

lukeschlather 14y ago

This is not the first time that Apple has rejected an app on purely political grounds. This may be the first time they've removed something and offended liberal/libertarian sensibilities, but a couple clear examples from a while back: http://mashable.com/2011/03/23/apple-removes-gay-cure/ http://mashable.com/2011/03/23/apple-removes-gay-cure/ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/24/apple-manhattan-declaration-app_n_788075.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/24/apple-manhattan-dec...

ktizo 14y ago
Or rejecting apps by pulitzer prize winning political cartoonists for "Ridiculing Public Figures" - http://www.tuaw.com/2010/04/15/when-youre-good-enough-for-a-pulitzer-but-not-the-app-store/ http://www.tuaw.com/2010/04/15/when-youre-good-enough-for-a-...
- pooriaazimi 14y ago
  Jobs responded to that case at D8 conference. He said it was a mistake ("We had a rule: you can't defame people. We thought it was sane to have such a rule, but the problem is that political cartoons, by definition, defame politicians. So, we made an exception for political cartoons") and they soon changed their guidelines to let the app in, but the developer never bothered to re-submit the app.
  - ktizo 14y ago
    That app isn't defamatory though. Caricature isn't defamatory without associated symbolism or represented actions to make claims about the individual represented. Drawing a silly picture isn't enough, you would have to draw a picture of someone doing something negative that they do not do, in a way that implies to the viewer that this person really does this thing and that you are not just joking about it.
- tripzilch 14y ago
  Well that's the problem eh, you can't do censorship without bumping into hypocrisy (be it on the left or the right side). UPDATE: NYT is reporting Mr. Fiore has been "encouraged" by Apple to re-submit. So the lesson here? Win a Pulitzer, get a 2nd chance at the App Store. Cute. Also this part, so very clearly underlines the reason why so many people start screaming about slippery slopes as soon as censorship enters the picture (even though the article's author does not seem to realize this): Look Apple, I supported some of your bans in the past -- like your ban on sexy junk apps -- but political cartooning is *slightly* different. First they came for the "sexy junk" apps, but I didn't speak out ...

ralfd 14y ago

That said, why has simplistic stuff like this to be an App? You could implement that in an email newsletter, a Twitter account, an RSS feed. An old-fashioned web site. > politically motivated rejection Probably that is the reason. But when I first heard of that App I did think of "torture porn". You practically track the death of people. How is that App used? Imagine being at lunch and you get a new notification. What do you do with that kind of Information? Why do you want that? Certainly not to grief, because it would desensitize you. I imagine the people who would install it (and leave it installed) would be from the opposite side of the spectrum and militaristic nuts: "Hell yeah, another 7 terrorist brownies taken down!"

icarus127 14y ago
How is that App used? Imagine being at launch and you get a new notification. What do you do with that kind of Information? Why do you want that? I for one would want that because we're so separated from our actions that even those of us who are appalled by it don't think about it daily. I say _our_ because we as a people could put the screws to our government if enough of us actually cared. As to what you do with it, I think the intent is to start a conversation then and there. Tell other people what just happened, tell them to install the app. If that happens enough times I think it might jar something loose in the social consciousness. It sounds better than sticking my head in the sand and pretending it's not happening. As for being desensitized, are you serious? _That's_ your argument against raising awareness of drone strikes? We're already desensitized to the violence we perpetrate on others. It doesn't even make the news if it has to compete with the latest celebrity gossip.

thwest 14y ago

Stifling of political opinions by a media corporation is no less censorship than actions undertaken by a government. You can check the dictionary, there are plenty of non-governmental definitions.

fpgeek 14y ago

This isn't the first time Apple's removed an app for political reasons: http://techland.time.com/2011/03/23/apple-removes-ex-gay-content-from-app-store/ http://techland.time.com/2011/03/23/apple-removes-ex-gay-con... Now, I happen to agree with the politics in that case, but it also illustrates the broader point: A curated app store is inevitably entangled in politics. Approving an app can be just as political a decision as rejecting it.