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> it still requires advance planning for a place that used to be a casual, walk-in experience So, much like every restaurant that becomes popular, anywhere in

> it still requires advance planning for a place that used to be a casual, walk-in experience So, much like every restaurant that becomes popular, anywhere in the world?

timr 1y ago
> So, much like every restaurant that becomes popular, anywhere in the world? No, but thanks for the spot-on imitation of an entitled foreign visitor. The insinuation that somehow it's the local people's fault that they don't want their quaint neighborhood restaurants to become McDonald's is indeed part of the problem. Many restaurants in Japan (my friend's included) are quite obviously one-man, standing-room only operations. They weren't designed or intended to accommodate big groups of people, pulling huge rolling suitcases, ordering off menu, getting offended when the proprietor doesn't offer vegan/gluten free/snowflake options, and tons of other nonsense that goes along with serving tourist hordes. I realize that you can't un-make the baby, and that Japan's government asked for this, but a lot of locals are still upset about this kind of stuff and I have empathy. Tourism inevitably turns anything authentic into a high-volume, Epcot-center version of itself. That might be fine if you're visiting, but it sucks if you live there.
- rwmj 1y ago
  I wonder what the end state is here. Will there be a backlash (or more of a backlash, as there's a bit of one already) against the Japanese government's policy? Something worse?
- biztos 1y ago
  Indeed, I’ve seen a lot of “visit Japan” ads lately. But the thing I worry about, having never been there, is that I might get some good recommendations for out-of-the-way spots where there would be few if any other tourists, and take the time to go find them, only to be denied entry because I’m a foreigner.
  - timr 1y ago
    > But the thing I worry about, having never been there, is that I might get some good recommendations for out-of-the-way spots where there would be few if any other tourists, and take the time to go find them, only to be denied entry because I’m a foreigner. Yep, that's the part I hate, too. The locals put up completely understandable roadblocks to preserve their own culture, but those roadblocks end up making the whole situation hostile and unpleasant for anyone who is not known to the locals. Since you've never been, let me just say this: most tourists are utterly clueless, so just not being clueless goes far. Blend in, imitate the locals' behaviors, try to speak the language, eat what you're given, etc., and you'll be fine. For now, at least, relatively few places ban foreigners outright.
    - School-Cotton 1y ago
      Telling someone “just speak Japanese and blend in!” is sort of an absurd suggestion. That is impossible if you’re not East Asian and even if you are, it would take years of study.
      - BirdieNZ 1y ago
        Being East Asian doesn't make you blend in (visually). Japanese people look different to Korean and Chinese people.
        decimalenough 1y ago
        The three are a Venn diagram with much more overlap than any of the three officially pretend. A Japanese friend of mine passes for a (Chinese) local across China and SE Asia. Clothing and makeup is a better giveaway than facial features or skin tone, but even that is becoming harder with K-pop creating a pan-Asian style to aspire to.
      - lpedrosa 1y ago
        Then you don't go "off the beaten path" and instead stick to the tourist friendly places. Demanding the locals to accommodate your lazyness is basically shouting "I'm entitled".
- strbean 1y ago
  > No, but thanks for the spot-on imitation of an entitled foreign visitor. The insinuation that somehow it's the local people's fault that they don't want their quaint neighborhood restaurants to become McDonald's is indeed part of the problem. This seems a little unfair. I think the parent was talking more about restaurants in big cities. In Tokyo, lines down the block are extremely common, and the lines are primarily Japanese people, not foreigners. Maybe there are Japanese tourists visiting Tokyo, maybe they are Tokyo locals. But it happens with or without foreign tourism.
  - timr 1y ago
    GGP is responding to my own anecdote, about my own friend who runs a small neighborhood restaurant that is now overrun with tourists. I don't think I misinterpreted the response.
    - strbean 1y ago
      So you disagree that popular restaurants have long lines regardless of foreign tourists?
      - timr 1y ago
        Japan is a big place. You can find anything.

> it still requires advance planning for a place that used to be a casual, walk-in experience So, much like every restaurant that becomes popular, anywhere in the world?

timr 1y ago

> So, much like every restaurant that becomes popular, anywhere in the world? No, but thanks for the spot-on imitation of an entitled foreign visitor. The insinuation that somehow it's the local people's fault that they don't want their quaint neighborhood restaurants to become McDonald's is indeed part of the problem. Many restaurants in Japan (my friend's included) are quite obviously one-man, standing-room only operations. They weren't designed or intended to accommodate big groups of people, pulling huge rolling suitcases, ordering off menu, getting offended when the proprietor doesn't offer vegan/gluten free/snowflake options, and tons of other nonsense that goes along with serving tourist hordes. I realize that you can't un-make the baby, and that Japan's government asked for this, but a lot of locals are still upset about this kind of stuff and I have empathy. Tourism inevitably turns anything authentic into a high-volume, Epcot-center version of itself. That might be fine if you're visiting, but it sucks if you live there.

rwmj 1y ago
I wonder what the end state is here. Will there be a backlash (or more of a backlash, as there's a bit of one already) against the Japanese government's policy? Something worse?
biztos 1y ago
Indeed, I’ve seen a lot of “visit Japan” ads lately. But the thing I worry about, having never been there, is that I might get some good recommendations for out-of-the-way spots where there would be few if any other tourists, and take the time to go find them, only to be denied entry because I’m a foreigner.
- timr 1y ago
  > But the thing I worry about, having never been there, is that I might get some good recommendations for out-of-the-way spots where there would be few if any other tourists, and take the time to go find them, only to be denied entry because I’m a foreigner. Yep, that's the part I hate, too. The locals put up completely understandable roadblocks to preserve their own culture, but those roadblocks end up making the whole situation hostile and unpleasant for anyone who is not known to the locals. Since you've never been, let me just say this: most tourists are utterly clueless, so just not being clueless goes far. Blend in, imitate the locals' behaviors, try to speak the language, eat what you're given, etc., and you'll be fine. For now, at least, relatively few places ban foreigners outright.
  - School-Cotton 1y ago
    Telling someone “just speak Japanese and blend in!” is sort of an absurd suggestion. That is impossible if you’re not East Asian and even if you are, it would take years of study.
    - BirdieNZ 1y ago
      Being East Asian doesn't make you blend in (visually). Japanese people look different to Korean and Chinese people.
      - decimalenough 1y ago
        The three are a Venn diagram with much more overlap than any of the three officially pretend. A Japanese friend of mine passes for a (Chinese) local across China and SE Asia. Clothing and makeup is a better giveaway than facial features or skin tone, but even that is becoming harder with K-pop creating a pan-Asian style to aspire to.
    - lpedrosa 1y ago
      Then you don't go "off the beaten path" and instead stick to the tourist friendly places. Demanding the locals to accommodate your lazyness is basically shouting "I'm entitled".
strbean 1y ago
> No, but thanks for the spot-on imitation of an entitled foreign visitor. The insinuation that somehow it's the local people's fault that they don't want their quaint neighborhood restaurants to become McDonald's is indeed part of the problem. This seems a little unfair. I think the parent was talking more about restaurants in big cities. In Tokyo, lines down the block are extremely common, and the lines are primarily Japanese people, not foreigners. Maybe there are Japanese tourists visiting Tokyo, maybe they are Tokyo locals. But it happens with or without foreign tourism.
- timr 1y ago
  GGP is responding to my own anecdote, about my own friend who runs a small neighborhood restaurant that is now overrun with tourists. I don't think I misinterpreted the response.
  - strbean 1y ago
    So you disagree that popular restaurants have long lines regardless of foreign tourists?
    - timr 1y ago
      Japan is a big place. You can find anything.