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So I live in the EU where such supplements are supposedly safe. Article said that supplements that mix pepper and turmeric are dangerous. And the dose that was

So I live in the EU where such supplements are supposedly safe. Article said that supplements that mix pepper and turmeric are dangerous. And the dose that was dangerous to the woman was 2000mg. I looked on my table toward the bottle of turmeric my parents gifted me recently, saying they heard it was good and bought on a famous "health" store. Bottle is: turmeric + pepper "designed for max absorption" and dose is 10000mg.

Thorrez 1y ago
Are you talking about pills? Pills generally can only contain about 1000mg or a little more. Is the bottle suggesting you take 10 pills for a single dose?
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- speeder 1y ago
  The pills in the bottle look exactly the ones in the article, they are quite big.
  - Thorrez 1y ago
    How can we know the dimensions of the pills in the article's picture? I've seen a bunch of pills that look basically like those, and the most they have held is around 1000mg. Here are some pills that look just like the ones in the article's picture: https://www.amazon.com/NatureWise-Curcumin-Curcuminoids-BioPerine-Absorption/dp/B01BMDAVB6/ https://www.amazon.com/NatureWise-Curcumin-Curcuminoids-BioP... They are 2250 + 500 = 2750mg in a serving size of 3 pills. So each pill is slightly less than 1000mg.
burnt-resistor 1y ago
Secondarily, both contains oxalate in proportions of 1% of black pepper and 2% of turmeric by mass, which leads to the formation of kidney stones. It's worse in the US because the FDA effectively "washes its hands" of anything deemed a "supplement". In general, the precautionary principle is difficult to find in America outside of FDA-approved procedures, medical devices, and medications. Food and supplements are desperately under-regulated.
- bell-cot 1y ago
  IIR, the FDA is legally forbidden from touching "supplements" - thanks to Congress, and the small army of supplement-industry lobbyists who tell Congress exactly what the law should say.
  - burnt-resistor 1y ago
    Yep. America contains insane, corrupt, dangerous contradictions.
- perihelions 1y ago
  > "It's worse in the US because the FDA effectively "washes its hands" of anything deemed a "supplement"" The "natural" supplement industry lobbied for, and obtained, a law that makes them unregulatable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary_Supplement_Health_and_Education_Act_of_1994 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary_Supplement_Health_and_... ("Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994") > "The act was intended to exempt the dietary and herbal supplement industry from most FDA drug regulations, allowing them to be sold and marketed without scientific backing for their health and medical claims.[3]"
kristofferc 1y ago
That's 10 grams?? Does that even fit in a pill?
- arcanemachiner 1y ago
  For turmeric, it's probably an extraction which is equivalent to 10g of raw herb.
elric 1y ago
Why would supplements supposedly be safe in the EU? They are not regulated as far as I know? They can be sold anywhere. They often contain all kinds of inflated claims..
- loleufanboys 1y ago
  Not sure why this is downvoted, it's exactly correct. Supplements are entirely unregulated, and actually often not even sold as food/medicine "officially", but labeled as "collectible item". Light drugs are often sold this way too (kratom, HHC weed, etc).
  - squidbeak 1y ago
    No, this is flatly incorrect. The EU heavily regulates food supplements under Directive 2002/46/EC.
    - elric 1y ago
      So I took the trouble of reading the directive in question. It has a list of substances (like magnesium) which are covered by the directive. Turmeric is not on the list. Making it, unsurprisingly, unregulated.
      - coldtea 1y ago
        Thats "Vitamin and mineral substances which may be used in the manufacture of food supplements" which is a different instruction, for a different directive. See Article 6 and on: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2006/1924/oj/eng https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2006/1924/oj/eng
  - coldtea 1y ago
    Health claims are regulated. Not as seriously as medicinal drugs, but at least as good as food (which is also way more regulated in the EU than the US), under https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2006/1924/oj/eng https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2006/1924/oj/eng
A_D_E_P_T 1y ago
> Article said that supplements that mix pepper and turmeric are dangerous. The article made it up. It's pure speculation. Hundreds of thousands of people take pepper+curcumin supplements and are totally fine. What's likely the culprit here is an idiosyncratic immune response, or a heavy metal contaminated supplement. Of course, that's also speculative. Could be something she ate; could be that she didn't disclose a drinking problem. The article reads like it has an axe to grind, tbh. "Oh no an unregulated racket!"
- chilmers 1y ago
  From the linked NIH page on drug-induced liver toxicity: “Importantly, means of increasing the bioavailability of curcumin were developed using piperine (black pepper) or lipid nanoparticle delivery methods to increase absorption. These high bioavailability forms of purified curcumin were subsequently linked to several cases of liver injury and mentioned as a possible cause of outbreaks of acute hepatitis with jaundice in Italy.” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK548561/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK548561/ So no, the article didn’t make it up. In fact, you made up the claim that they made it up. Seems like you are the one with an axe to grind.
  - A_D_E_P_T 1y ago
    Probably over a million people have taken curcumin+piperine supplements that they bought via Amazon. See, e.g.: https://i.ibb.co/Qvbdjqf7/amazon-curcumin.png https://i.ibb.co/Qvbdjqf7/amazon-curcumin.png My impression as an author with books on Amazon is that you get one review or rating for every 20-30 purchases, and there are two products with "200k people have purchased multiple times." And that's to say nothing of people who have bought such products via other sources, like Wal-Mart, etc. All that, and you have "several" cases? That's not a lot. You need much stronger evidence to support any assertion that the nature of the product is harmful. (As opposed to contamination or chance effects.) If anything, I'd say that purchase and utilization statistics support the notion that the product is not harmful.
    - simsla 1y ago
kjuulh 1y ago
I was working at a small farm-shop at some point, we sold smoothies of turmeric and ginger, we had to label it clearly, and restrict sale for pregnant woman, young kids and the elderly because large doses can be dangerous. As far as I recall both are a natural blood thinner. Edit: in europe
einarfd 1y ago
That sounds crazy, are you sure you didn't misread the labeling? When I checked the turmeric supplement I use. Which I buy in a reputable health food, and supplement chain in Norway. It is 40mg of turmeric, which according to the article is well under the acceptable daily dose. As far as I understand Norway follows the EU directives on this, but has some additional strictures as well. I wouldn't expect the difference to be this stark though. Btw. the reason I use turmeric supplements is that I have a tendency to get persistent inflammation, and for me, the supplements seems to help with that. But if I didn't have this problem, I would not take it, and also, it isn't given that it works for you, even if it does for me.
cheschire 1y ago
Are you sure it’s not microgram (μg)?
- speeder 1y ago
  Link to a photo of the box. https://peixeverde.pt/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/curcumega-800x800.jpg https://peixeverde.pt/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/curcumega-8... Pretty sure that is a mg, not an μg
  - cheschire 1y ago
    Looking online at that, the ingredients are confusing. Composition: Per capsule: Turmeric (equivalence) - 10 000 mg; Turmeric (containing at least 95% curcumin) - 350 mg; Turmeric (exact 5:1) - 150 mg; Black Pepper - 5 mg; Vitamin C - 80 mg (100% VRN ); Zinc - 10 mg (100% VRN )
lukan 1y ago
"heard it was good and bought on a famous "health" store" I heard it is good, not trusting generic "healthy wonder medicines" in general.
coldtea 1y ago
I seriously doubt each pill/dose is 10 grams.
orwin 1y ago
Two points: one, it's extremely likely that the article is incomplete and lack critical info like a presence of lead, or genetic predisposition. Two: 10g is crazy. That's how you get kidney stones. Put so curcuma and black pepper in your meals. In EU, supplements (and recently, tea) are tested for heavy metal and plastic, and to see if the ingredient list is correct, but their effectiveness is not.
IAmBroom 1y ago
10000 mg is 1/3 ounce, or nearly a half teaspoon of flour. That's huge.
- tim333 1y ago
  Tesco's Easy chicken korma recipe has 1 tsp ground turmeric https://realfood.tesco.com/recipes/chicken-korma-curry.html https://realfood.tesco.com/recipes/chicken-korma-curry.html I think I'd rather mine in Chicken Korma than some pill.

Thorrez 1y ago

Are you talking about pills? Pills generally can only contain about 1000mg or a little more. Is the bottle suggesting you take 10 pills for a single dose?

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
speeder 1y ago
The pills in the bottle look exactly the ones in the article, they are quite big.
- Thorrez 1y ago
  How can we know the dimensions of the pills in the article's picture? I've seen a bunch of pills that look basically like those, and the most they have held is around 1000mg. Here are some pills that look just like the ones in the article's picture: https://www.amazon.com/NatureWise-Curcumin-Curcuminoids-BioPerine-Absorption/dp/B01BMDAVB6/ https://www.amazon.com/NatureWise-Curcumin-Curcuminoids-BioP... They are 2250 + 500 = 2750mg in a serving size of 3 pills. So each pill is slightly less than 1000mg.

burnt-resistor 1y ago

Secondarily, both contains oxalate in proportions of 1% of black pepper and 2% of turmeric by mass, which leads to the formation of kidney stones. It's worse in the US because the FDA effectively "washes its hands" of anything deemed a "supplement". In general, the precautionary principle is difficult to find in America outside of FDA-approved procedures, medical devices, and medications. Food and supplements are desperately under-regulated.

bell-cot 1y ago
IIR, the FDA is legally forbidden from touching "supplements" - thanks to Congress, and the small army of supplement-industry lobbyists who tell Congress exactly what the law should say.
- burnt-resistor 1y ago
  Yep. America contains insane, corrupt, dangerous contradictions.
perihelions 1y ago
> "It's worse in the US because the FDA effectively "washes its hands" of anything deemed a "supplement"" The "natural" supplement industry lobbied for, and obtained, a law that makes them unregulatable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary_Supplement_Health_and_Education_Act_of_1994 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary_Supplement_Health_and_... ("Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994") > "The act was intended to exempt the dietary and herbal supplement industry from most FDA drug regulations, allowing them to be sold and marketed without scientific backing for their health and medical claims.[3]"

kristofferc 1y ago

That's 10 grams?? Does that even fit in a pill?

arcanemachiner 1y ago
For turmeric, it's probably an extraction which is equivalent to 10g of raw herb.

elric 1y ago

Why would supplements supposedly be safe in the EU? They are not regulated as far as I know? They can be sold anywhere. They often contain all kinds of inflated claims..

loleufanboys 1y ago
Not sure why this is downvoted, it's exactly correct. Supplements are entirely unregulated, and actually often not even sold as food/medicine "officially", but labeled as "collectible item". Light drugs are often sold this way too (kratom, HHC weed, etc).
- squidbeak 1y ago
  No, this is flatly incorrect. The EU heavily regulates food supplements under Directive 2002/46/EC.
  - elric 1y ago
    So I took the trouble of reading the directive in question. It has a list of substances (like magnesium) which are covered by the directive. Turmeric is not on the list. Making it, unsurprisingly, unregulated.
    - coldtea 1y ago
      Thats "Vitamin and mineral substances which may be used in the manufacture of food supplements" which is a different instruction, for a different directive. See Article 6 and on: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2006/1924/oj/eng https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2006/1924/oj/eng
- coldtea 1y ago
  Health claims are regulated. Not as seriously as medicinal drugs, but at least as good as food (which is also way more regulated in the EU than the US), under https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2006/1924/oj/eng https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2006/1924/oj/eng

A_D_E_P_T 1y ago

> Article said that supplements that mix pepper and turmeric are dangerous. The article made it up. It's pure speculation. Hundreds of thousands of people take pepper+curcumin supplements and are totally fine. What's likely the culprit here is an idiosyncratic immune response, or a heavy metal contaminated supplement. Of course, that's also speculative. Could be something she ate; could be that she didn't disclose a drinking problem. The article reads like it has an axe to grind, tbh. "Oh no an unregulated racket!"

chilmers 1y ago
From the linked NIH page on drug-induced liver toxicity: “Importantly, means of increasing the bioavailability of curcumin were developed using piperine (black pepper) or lipid nanoparticle delivery methods to increase absorption. These high bioavailability forms of purified curcumin were subsequently linked to several cases of liver injury and mentioned as a possible cause of outbreaks of acute hepatitis with jaundice in Italy.” https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK548561/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK548561/ So no, the article didn’t make it up. In fact, you made up the claim that they made it up. Seems like you are the one with an axe to grind.
- A_D_E_P_T 1y ago
  Probably over a million people have taken curcumin+piperine supplements that they bought via Amazon. See, e.g.: https://i.ibb.co/Qvbdjqf7/amazon-curcumin.png https://i.ibb.co/Qvbdjqf7/amazon-curcumin.png My impression as an author with books on Amazon is that you get one review or rating for every 20-30 purchases, and there are two products with "200k people have purchased multiple times." And that's to say nothing of people who have bought such products via other sources, like Wal-Mart, etc. All that, and you have "several" cases? That's not a lot. You need much stronger evidence to support any assertion that the nature of the product is harmful. (As opposed to contamination or chance effects.) If anything, I'd say that purchase and utilization statistics support the notion that the product is not harmful.
  - simsla 1y ago

kjuulh 1y ago

I was working at a small farm-shop at some point, we sold smoothies of turmeric and ginger, we had to label it clearly, and restrict sale for pregnant woman, young kids and the elderly because large doses can be dangerous. As far as I recall both are a natural blood thinner. Edit: in europe

einarfd 1y ago

That sounds crazy, are you sure you didn't misread the labeling? When I checked the turmeric supplement I use. Which I buy in a reputable health food, and supplement chain in Norway. It is 40mg of turmeric, which according to the article is well under the acceptable daily dose. As far as I understand Norway follows the EU directives on this, but has some additional strictures as well. I wouldn't expect the difference to be this stark though. Btw. the reason I use turmeric supplements is that I have a tendency to get persistent inflammation, and for me, the supplements seems to help with that. But if I didn't have this problem, I would not take it, and also, it isn't given that it works for you, even if it does for me.

cheschire 1y ago

Are you sure it’s not microgram (μg)?

speeder 1y ago
Link to a photo of the box. https://peixeverde.pt/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/curcumega-800x800.jpg https://peixeverde.pt/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/curcumega-8... Pretty sure that is a mg, not an μg
- cheschire 1y ago
  Looking online at that, the ingredients are confusing. Composition: Per capsule: Turmeric (equivalence) - 10 000 mg; Turmeric (containing at least 95% curcumin) - 350 mg; Turmeric (exact 5:1) - 150 mg; Black Pepper - 5 mg; Vitamin C - 80 mg (100% VRN ); Zinc - 10 mg (100% VRN )

lukan 1y ago

"heard it was good and bought on a famous "health" store" I heard it is good, not trusting generic "healthy wonder medicines" in general.

coldtea 1y ago

I seriously doubt each pill/dose is 10 grams.

orwin 1y ago

Two points: one, it's extremely likely that the article is incomplete and lack critical info like a presence of lead, or genetic predisposition. Two: 10g is crazy. That's how you get kidney stones. Put so curcuma and black pepper in your meals. In EU, supplements (and recently, tea) are tested for heavy metal and plastic, and to see if the ingredient list is correct, but their effectiveness is not.

IAmBroom 1y ago

10000 mg is 1/3 ounce, or nearly a half teaspoon of flour. That's huge.

tim333 1y ago
Tesco's Easy chicken korma recipe has 1 tsp ground turmeric https://realfood.tesco.com/recipes/chicken-korma-curry.html https://realfood.tesco.com/recipes/chicken-korma-curry.html I think I'd rather mine in Chicken Korma than some pill.