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Nice. It’s amazing to see the progress Bulgarians have made in the last 20 years after joining the EU. I can imagine it hasn’t been an easy process.
by isodev 1y ago
Nice. It’s amazing to see the progress Bulgarians have made in the last 20 years after joining the EU. I can imagine it hasn’t been an easy process.
- petesergeant 1y agoTwo things that surprised me when I spent a couple of months in Bulgaria: * Bulgarian support for the EU is pretty low and people didn't think it made their life much better * Bulgarian support for Russia is very high, like 50%, probably due to their historic help in kicking out the Turks
- mc32 1y agoAlso the experience of Greece not too far back and the austerity imposed by Germany is not quite forgotten. Varoufakis[1] can attest to its severity. The Greeks voted against it but Germany imposed its will. [1]https://jacobin.com/2025/07/yanis-varoufakis-on-the-legacy-of-greeces-oxi-referendum https://jacobin.com/2025/07/yanis-varoufakis-on-the-legacy-o...
- isodev 1y agoAnd yet, Greece recovered to become a leading economy in the region. The propaganda is strong on the airwaves these days, just like in the US, one shouldn’t react to “facts” taken out of context. It seems (from here), support for Russia is somehow magically going down as Russia’s economy is having trouble paying for its “support” abroad.
- jazzyjackson 1y agoIn which region is Greece a leading economy?
- petesergeant 1y ago> And yet, Greece recovered to become a leading economy in the region I don't think that's true ... growth is good, but that's because there's a lot of catching up to do. If I remember correctly (and maybe I don't) then real GDP is still like -20% vs 2007, debt is EU-leading at like 150% of GDP, unemployment remains high, and wages remain low.
- shakow 1y ago> to become a leading economy in the region. Leading compared to what, Romania and North Macedonia? > support for Russia is somehow magically going down I don't think support for Russia was ever notably involved in the whole clusterfuck regarding the Greek economy.
- xdennis 1y agoI'm not quite sure about that. Romania is bigger because it has a bigger population, but look even at this GDP per capita comparison with Romania. Greece: 31695 (2008), 25756 (2025), 31014 (2030, projected) Romania: 10435 (2008), 21421 (2025), 28809 (2030, projected) It won't be until 2030 that Greece will recover, and I'm pretty sure it's slow growth is because of its huge debt because of the euro.
- gbil 1y agoThis is a very distant view for the reasons behind the crisis in Greece and for sure the government of 2015 was not a victim. In the context of this thread, Bulgarians as Greeks before them, enjoy the money from the EU but don’t like the responsibility that comes from it, to reform, to also contribute and that you lose the own currency perks while you gain on other fronts. Of course there is a lot more here to discuss but this is my experience being a Greek in Greece.
- W3zzy 1y agoThe government was not the victim in deed. But up until today you can see the results amongst the population. You can Prune for growt or you can just cut the plant to the ground hoping it will survive.
- omnimus 1y agoGreece was sacrificed so eurozone (especialy Germany) could hide recession by bailing out banks (through bailing out Hreece). Greeks know and believe this. That makes their relationship with EU quite complicated.
- spookie 1y agoYou know, there's Greece and Portugal. Mentioning these two as they got Troika following them. Portugal managed to get out of the storm, and debt is now below GDP. Greece took many bad steps trying to recover. And its debt shows that. Their governments have had a big part of the blame. Hell, at one point they didnt have enough money for citizens to withdraw from banks. And that was before Troika.
- Ygg2 1y ago> And its debt shows that. Their governments have had a big part of the blame. Hell, at one point they didnt have enough money for citizens to withdraw from banks. Sure but so do the creditors. If you keep giving mortgages to anyone with a drivers license that's on you buddy. At almost no point is there enough money for citizens to withdraw their money. Modern banks don't keep their assets as cash.
- guappa 1y ago> If you keep giving mortgages to anyone with a drivers license that's on you buddy. Isn't this the USA system?
- Ygg2 1y agoNot just the USA system. EU and especially German banks gave plenty of credits to Greek banks, knowing that they will probably spend it on German products, even if they have not much means to repay them. Plus, the EU knows full well that if Greeks overspend they can easily be pressured into austerity. This went swimmingly for everyone involved, with Greece now in more debt than ever (debt went from 145.45% of GDP to 209.40% of GDP). And fascist parties going from virtually non-existent to mainstays. Adding low-efficiency countries like those in southeastern Europe is great for the EU's major exporter - Germany, because it adds more customers who have Euros, and because it devalues the Euro, which means more exports. Better yet, because of Euro the new joiners can't devalue their currency and get their exports high enough to restart the economy, with only viable option being more in debt and/or leaving for Germany, while obliterating the local industries. Win-win-win. For the EU exporters. So, yes, let's celebrate Bulgaria joining Hotel EU, where food is great, your bill grows exponentially, but you can't ever leave. By the end you'll just end up as a pool boy.
- dkjaudyeqooe 1y agoThis is nonsense. Not mentioned is that Greece has borrowed excessively and had defaulted on its loans. A bailout was organized by the EU and IMF with terms that Greece had every opportunity to reject. No one forced anything on Greece. The referendum was not binding and political theater for the government of the time. That Greece accepted the terms reflected the reality that the alternative was much worse and would have caused great suffering for Greeks.
- ingohelpinger 1y ago100% true.
- mc32 1y agoWhat choice did Greece have? Germany was not extending favorable terms, they were punitive, so what choice did they have but take the least awful choice? Syriza tried but Germany had the upper hand and of course didn't give an inch --though Syriza tried very hard. Varoufakis would argue the severe terms imposed by the creditors/negotiators exacerbated the fiscal issue. Yes Greece had issues but the creditors's terms exacerbated the problem, made things worse. It's kind of like borrowing from a loan shark to pay off debts --on average, you're better off not. But hey, once you take it, you either pay up, or you lose something dear to you.
- omnimus 1y agoIt was disqusting treatment from EU which needed to hide its own recession and blame a culprit. Every other european media outlet talked about greeks (in very racist way) as lazy nation that doesnt want to work. Not great look for EU. But i dont know about better alternative.
- dmos62 1y agoGreece underreported its debt until 2009: i.e. it borrowed too much while lying about how much it's already borrowed. That's the main difference between Greece on the one hand and Italy, Portugal on the other, in my eyes. Italy and Portugal too suffered a public debt crises, but they weren't so blatant about it. I sympathize with the common Greek man, and I wish their crises had been managed with more success, but I also don't feel especially interested in bankrolling Greek policies that led to this crises.
- mrtksn 1y agoIt’s also more of a generation thing though. The older people are nostalgic about the past and their youth and for a country that experienced 2 decades of very low birth rates that’s the 70s and 80s and those years are under the communist rule and very good years for Bulgaria as the country was experiencing economic boom from computers and electronics manufacturing. Also, under under the Communist rule supported by USSR, they indoctrinated people into a version of history that Turks are the absolute evil, and Russians are the absolute angels saving them from the ottomans. I.e. in pre-EU era it was called Ottoman slavery, later they start calling it Ottoman era as it was more accurate as Ottoman’s system was based on collecting taxes and resources from the conquered places when giving them plenty of autonomy. Obviously not ideal but far from slavery.
- throwpoaster 1y agoUnless you were Armenian.
- mrtksn 1y agoNot at all, Armenians were also an integral part of the Ottoman society and that’s how you still have plenty of Armenian cultural heritage dating back to Ottoman times in modern Turkey. You must be referring to the events around WW1 that led the loss of huge numbers of the Armenians through atrocities committed by the Ottomans which some say that it was a genocide, others say it was poorly managed suppression of a rebellion in a dying empire. Still unresolved issue unfortunately. On the other hand Bulgarians and Turks teamed in wars after the forming of the new Bulgarian state.
- kgwgk 1y ago> poorly managed suppression of a rebellion Or a too well managed suppression. “ We have been blamed for not making a distinction between guilty and innocent Armenians. [To do so] was impossible. Because of the nature of things, one who was still innocent today could be guilty tomorrow. The concern for the safety of Turkey simply had to silence all other concerns.”
- csomar 1y agoBulgaria economy and the average citizen quality of life are not that correlated. You can have one improving while the other is deteriorating. We saw what happened in the US when such a gap became wide enough.
- epolanski 1y agoBy many metrics (life expectancy, inequality, literacy, poverty rates) the US is a third world country.
- petesergeant 1y agoEven grok would call you out on this.
- decimalenough 1y agoNo, it really isn't. Although there are some pockets of poverty that come close.
- guappa 1y agoRich people in 3rd world countries do very well.
- dzhiurgis 1y agoRich people do well everywhere
- epolanski 1y agoLife expectancy in US is 78 compared to 82 in Europe. Child mortality is closer to Africa than Europe. Again, about children, US has the second poorest children among the 35 most developed countries in the world. More than half Americans have their literacy prophiciency below elementary level. There's almost a million homeless people in US, that's more than in several rich countries like Japan, Italy, Poland, Germany, etc, combined. Hell I've never seen bidonvilles and tents all around cities in Europe or most of Asia like I've seen in LA or SF. Inequality in US is at south America level. US has more incarcerated population than all developed countries combined.
- barrenko 1y agoAnd if the people vote against the EU in the referendums, one's authorities just kinda look the other way. For anyone who is new to this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_French_European_Constitution_referendum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_French_European_Constitut...
- raspasov 1y agoBulgaria has an internal coherence problem. There are brilliant people but also many who believe bullshit communist fairytales. 1. Many people have unrealistic expectations. In reality, no one is coming to save you, and 99% of the time, you need to save yourself. 2. The Russian propaganda story was taught in schools from 1945 to 1990 and beyond. When I was in elementary school in the 90s, it was still taught by inertia. I would bet it's still taught today, 2025 (!), in some shape or form. Yes, Russian actions in the late 1800s had the side-effect of liberating Bulgaria, but by all historical accounts, that was bound to happen since the Ottoman Empire was falling apart. The most significant action taken by Russia (the Soviet Union) was the occupation of Bulgaria following World War II. The resulting communist regime initially jailed or killed any person who dared speak against it. This is not commonly taught or talked about in the country, even today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Court_(Bulgaria) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Court_(Bulgaria) Credentials: I am Bulgarian.
- jajko 1y ago> The resulting communist regime initially jailed or killed any person who dared speak against it. That's whole modus operandi of russians entire 20th and 21st century. Really, a cancerous mole that wants to spread at all costs across the face of whole Europe, and the only thing it understands is the rule of stronger dog fucking the rest without a care. I've grown up in communism too albeit a bit more north, a whole nation enslaved for more than 4 decades by russians. The scars this oppression had left on the soul of my nation are still very visible these days and not going away anytime soon. That depraved nation never even acknowledges atrocities it was doing and still keeps doing on a daily basis. The saddest part they were very actively shooting/electrocuting people that were just trying to escape to the west, just to show to the rest of population its not worth dreaming of freedom in any way. A milder North korea. I guess dictator's playbooks are very similar everywhere.
- ingohelpinger 1y agohave you seen the roads? lol
- isodev 1y agoNo, but have you seen the roads in other places? Roads are hard :)
- subscribed 1y agoLike the UK? I have. It just cost me 2 grand to fix the damage to my car from the pothole.
- SwtCyber 1y agoDefinitely not an easy road but pretty remarkable when you zoom out