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This article is missing what I think is a pretty important PSA on the topic of bacteria in honey: Honey commonly contains small amounts of the anaerobic bacter
by cypherpunks01 1y ago
This article is missing what I think is a pretty important PSA on the topic of bacteria in honey:
Honey commonly contains small amounts of the anaerobic bacteria Clostridium botulinum, which causes botulism.
This is why you should not feed honey to infants, because their immune systems cannot safely handle any amount of it yet. Even though the levels apparently are small enough for the rest of humans to consume worry-free.
- RataNova 1y agoIt's one of those things where honey is both a wonder of nature and a reminder that biology doesn’t always play nice with everyone
- johncole 1y agoI remember having small kids we took this very seriously. I always wondered if this was just another overprotective order, or could really be an issue.
- loeg 1y agohttps://parentdata.org/honey-botulism-babies/ https://parentdata.org/honey-botulism-babies/ > Infantile botulism is extremely rare. There are an estimated 100 cases per year in the U.S., among approximately 4 million children in the age range under 1. That’s a risk of 1 in 40,000. This is somewhat less likely than the chance of visiting the ER for a blanket-related injury in a given year (yes, I looked that up, and I do think it’s a good comparison). > ... In an estimated 20% of cases — that’s about 20 cases a year — honey is one of the exposures. This doesn’t necessarily mean that the botulism actually came from honey; it’s just that because we know the spores can live in honey … it seems possible. > At best, this suggests that by avoiding honey, you could lower the risk of infantile botulism from 1 in 40,000 to 1 in 50,000.
- wtvanhest 1y agoI don’t think these probabilities are correct. Every parent is told not to feed their under 1 year olds honey, many times. In an extreme example… only 20 parents fed their kids honey and 20 kids contracted botulism. That would be a 100% risk. Obviously in real life it’s not 100% of kids, but still could be a meaningful percentage and likely higher than 1 in 50,000 for babies that eat honey.
- elmomle 1y agoIt is correct. They are considering the most extreme case; in the most extreme case, no non-botulism-infected infants eat honey, and honey was the cause of botulism for those 20 infants. If that is so, then completely removing honey exposure for infants would mean that 80 rather than 100 infants get botulism poisoning. So the new probability of contracting botulism is (80 / 100) * (old probability), and (80 / 100) * (1 / 40000) = 1 / 50000.
- yorwba 1y agoThere are no errors in the calculation, but it's wrong anyways because it calculates the answer to the wrong question. "At best" suggests this is the largest possible effect, but it is the smallest possible. To get an upper bound estimate on the usefulness of avoiding honey, you would need to know how many parents of 1-year-olds are avoiding honey.
- wtvanhest 1y agoThanks! You said that much better than I did.
- mkbkn 1y agoFeeding honey to newborn babies is a common practice in India. Sometimes it's their first ever food.
- mrweasel 1y agoWe waited until our kid was four, just to be safe, but it's was also honey from our own bees, so I somehow felt it less safe. Kid went full Winnie-the-Pooh on the jar.
- Analemma_ 1y agoI'm not sure that number is meaningful without knowing how many parents are giving their infants honey. Granted I'm in a high-income, high-education area, but at least in my bubble, "don't give babies honey" seems to be common knowledge, so it's possible there are relatively few instances and a high percentage result in complications.
- tayo42 1y agoWhole food crunchy Instagram grifters push that infants should eat honey Though tbh do people really eat that much honey? I only have some in my kitchen to have with tea when I have a cold. Other then that I almost never use it.
- tharkun__ 1y agoBreakfast buns go well with honey. Often switched up with jam every few days. Also pancakes and waffles are great with honey from time to time when I'm tired of maple syrup. Jam works too.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- alwa 1y agoOh man buttered toast with honey... English muffins... But most controversially, and most deliciously, it dresses up a pizza something lovely... For me the shift happened when I stopped thinking of it as a sweetener for liquids and started thinking about it as a condiment to deploy conservatively but frequently.
- borski 1y agoHot honey on pizza is the BEST
- coldtea 1y agoThe United States is the second largest honey consumer behind China according to the latest data available from the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) in 2019. In 2021, consumption increased 8 percent from the previous year. Between 1991 to 2021, the average rate of growth is 10.7 million pounds per year. This translates to about 1.9 pounds per capita of honey consumption in 2021 compared with 1.2 pounds per capita in the early 1990s.
- bravesoul2 1y agoA truncated version of Bayes used here: A=Infantile botulism B=Kid eats honey P(A|!B) = P(A) * (1 - P(B|A)) Not sure it is correct! The ACX signature says: P(A|B) = [P(A)*P(B|A)]/P(B) So P(A|!B) = [P(A)*P(!B|A)]/P(!B) = (1/40000) * .8 / ??? ??? Is very small though if people take the medical advice. Their number assumes nobody follows the advice!
- repeekad 1y agosame with immunocompromised folks, though all that only applies to raw honey; pasteurized honey is more common in grocery stores and totally safe
- AbortedLaunch 1y agoI would not expect this to make a difference as pasteurization does not inactivate Clostridium endospores.
- cess11 1y agoIt's pasteurised to stop you from making mead, not because it does anything to Clostridium spores.
- abcd_f 1y agoPasteurization doesn't in any way prevent honey from remaining fermentable.
- cess11 1y agoOK. So?
- jodrellblank 1y agoSo your claim is refuted
- cess11 1y agoThe pasteurisation is not done to destroy yeast?
- fc417fc802 1y agoI doubt it, but even if that were the case it would not support your earlier claim. When fermenting things you will generally intentionally introduce a very small quantity of a carefully controlled culture to the bulk media. Which is to say, you would almost certainly have your own yeast culture at home that you would inoculate the mead-to-be with. Maintaining a sourdough start is an example of this practice. If you want to start your own culture from scratch there are established practices for culturing "wild" yeast from the environment.
- ByteDrifter 1y agoWhen my kid was under one year old, we were especially careful about this we didn’t let her have even a tiny bit of honey. It really drove home the idea that everything has two sides. Honey can sit on a shelf for years without spoiling, but it can still be dangerous for the most vulnerable. It’s a reminder that just because something is natural and long lasting doesn’t mean it’s safe for everyone.
- littlestymaar 1y agoHoney contains spores of Clostridium botulinum, not live bacteria. And as such, honey cannot in itself cause botulism. But the intestinal microbiot of infants (not their immune system) is not necessarily developed enough, and as such Clostridium botulinum can colonize their intestine (it strives in anaerobic environment) and then they can develop a special kind of botulism where the toxin is actually produced in their own body (as opposed to ingested, like in regular botulism). It's not the only way a child can stumble upon the bacteria's spore though.
- IAmBroom 1y agoYou state honey cannot cause botulism, and in the very next sentence explain how it can. I think you're making a novel semantic difference, which is irrelevant to anyone puking their guts out from botulism.
- alanpearce 1y agoI for one found the technical difference interesting
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- OJFord 1y agoAmericans/people on the internet worry far far far too much about botulism.