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Drivers by law have to take a 45 minute break every 4.5 hours in Europe, with max 9 hours driving a day. Don't know how fast these things can charge though, bu

Drivers by law have to take a 45 minute break every 4.5 hours in Europe, with max 9 hours driving a day. Don't know how fast these things can charge though, but suspect they'll have more than your typical 350kw passenger car chargers. This is the same argument people used to have about electric cars: if I can't drive nonstop for 18 hours at 95mph up a mountain hauling a speedboat and recharge up to 100% in 30 seconds then they're worthless etc etc. In reality these are not realistic or typical usage patterns.

sandworm101 1y ago
A good question is then whether a driver can recharge a truck during rest periods. Most jurisdictions dont allow refueling or maintenance during driver rest periods. Trucks are not personal vehicles. They are run as part of a business. If an electric trucks can save money, every business will switch immediately. That isnt happening because the math/money doesnt, yet, make sense.
- gambiting 1y ago
  There is a good YouTube channel of a truck driver in Germany who drives an electric truck and he's been praising it all over. The range is enough to go between pauses, and yes he can charge while resting. https://youtu.be/I4b-cybcgkM?si=gGTBfgApQ_ssDANu https://youtu.be/I4b-cybcgkM?si=gGTBfgApQ_ssDANu >>Most jurisdictions dont allow refueling or maintenance during driver rest periods. Well good thing recharging is not the same as refueling. Fueling requires an operator to be present and watching the pump for safety reasons. Recharging doesn't have such limitation.
  - charcircuit 1y ago
    >Fueling requires an operator to be present and watching the pump for safety reasons Why can't pumping be made safe enough to not require supervison?
    - _flux 1y ago
      It probably could, but given filling up a semi takes just 10 minutes, perhaps it isn't considered cost-effective to do so.
- morsch 1y ago
  Cursory research indicates that in the EU, they are: If charging the battery of an electric heavy goods vehicle or bus requires supervision or involvement of the driver, then this time needs to be recorded as 'other work.' On the contrary, if the driver can freely dispose of her/his time while the battery is charging, then the time taken for the battery to charge has no effect on the breaks or the daily rest of the driver. Any movement of the vehicle from the charging location would be deemed to be an interruption or an end to a break or rest period. https://corte.be/images/documents/CORTE_ENF_007_2024_Elec_batteries_charging_enforcement561_recommandations_1.0.pdf https://corte.be/images/documents/CORTE_ENF_007_2024_Elec_ba...
  - masklinn 1y ago
    According to the electric trucker channel there are rumblings about altering the last clause, because currently if you end your day at a charging station you can’t free it up and go to a regular parking space when you’re topped up.
    - crote 1y ago
      The problem is that it is still going to interrupt your rest, and therefore your focus while driving. Getting woken up at all is a problem, the fact that you can go back to sleep after 15 minutes doesn't really matter. I would be quite surprised if the EU was willing to mess with that. A better solution would be a truck stop with a charging connector per parking spot, and a way for the charger to dynamically connect to the trucks one-by-one. The driver can plug it in when they arrive, and the truck stop will handle the rest. Alternatively, build a bunch of low-speed chargers instead of a single high-speed charger. When it comes to overnight charging, everyone is going to be there for at least 9 hours anyways. No need to hurry up and finish that charging session in 30 minutes.
      - masklinn 1y ago
        > The problem is that it is still going to interrupt your rest, and therefore your focus while driving. Getting woken up at all is a problem, the fact that you can go back to sleep after 15 minutes doesn't really matter. I would be quite surprised if the EU was willing to mess with that. The problem is that sleeping is not the only activity during the rest period. A "standard" rest period by EU law is 11 hours. Going for a run, getting dinner, doing some life stuff, then moving the truck a few meters, is not going to kill the driver's focus, but currently it's either limiting (because you're now on reduced rest, or you need to rest 11 hours from moving the truck) or illegal. > Alternatively, build a bunch of low-speed chargers instead of a single high-speed charger. When it comes to overnight charging, everyone is going to be there for at least 9 hours anyways. No need to hurry up and finish that charging session in 30 minutes. That has its own issues, because it means you need to electrify essentially every truck parking spot where truckers might overnight.
- mattlondon 1y ago
  I suspect it is a lot to do with the capex too. I only recently got a personal electric car not because they only recently got good enough or only recently made sense, but rather because my last petrol car finally needed replacing. I suspect trucks are similar - they're not going to replace them right away when they have an existing one that is working fine and still has many years of use ahead of it. Keep using the existing ones until they need to replace them, then go EV. Otherwise you're losing that amortization of the capex
- dazc 1y ago
  Businesses are not suddenly going to dispose of their current fleet because something new comes along. For most, I imagine, their trucks will be on some kind of fixed-term lease agreement.
- foobarbecue 1y ago
  "If an electric trucks can save money, every business will switch immediately" Real life is not that simple. Depending on your cargo and routes, profitability might be about might be more about capacity (mass or volume), purchase cost, operating cost, max range, etc. And then... businesses have inertia and are only rational actors the extent that the people who control them are.
- foobarbecue 1y ago
  "If an electric trucks can save money, every business will switch immediately" Real life is not that simple. Depending on your cargo and routes, profitability might be about might be more about capacity (mass or volume), purchase cost, operating cost, max range, torque, reliability etc. And then... businesses have inertia and are only rational actors the extent that the people who control them are.
mdavid626 1y ago
True, most people don’t drive that much at once. BUT When I need to drive a lot, then I want to be able to do it. Driving for 600km / 6 hours, taking few hours break and coming back 600km the same day is easily possible with a gasoline/diesel car. It’s a pain with an electric one.
- crote 1y ago
  Is it, though? Modern luxury EVs have a range of close to 500km, and they are able to charge at over 1000km of range per hour. Split that 6-hour leg into two 3-hour legs with a 15-minute charging session & pee break, and you can easily do that. Besides, why optimize for the absolute best experience on your once-a-year trip? What about the _other_ 300+ days of the year? How much time are you going to save by plugging your car into a charger when you get home once or twice a week, instead of going to a petrol station to fill it up?
  - mdavid626 1y ago
    Sounds good, but it's not reality, at least not for now. What you're describing is the absolute best scenarios - most expensive cars and MW charging stations. These I can't afford and the charging stations don't exist or are very rare (at least here in Europe). If it would be true, that'd be great. For me saving time on the gas station is negligible. I drive around anyway, but yes, I agree with you - charging at home is very cool. Just plug it in when you get home and you can drive in the morning. The only way I see this, have 2 cars. One for longer trips (diesel), one for shorter, every day usage (electric). But this needs 2 parking spaces, insurance, taxes etc. I can't affor this either.
    - dzhiurgis 1y ago
      150kW is roughly 1000km/h charge rate. There are tons of such stations around Europe. Even budget EVs have such charge rate and do 300km on a highway. Most charging stops I do I can't even leave my car to grab lunch because I'd have to be running back to unplug the charger.

sandworm101 1y ago

A good question is then whether a driver can recharge a truck during rest periods. Most jurisdictions dont allow refueling or maintenance during driver rest periods. Trucks are not personal vehicles. They are run as part of a business. If an electric trucks can save money, every business will switch immediately. That isnt happening because the math/money doesnt, yet, make sense.

gambiting 1y ago
There is a good YouTube channel of a truck driver in Germany who drives an electric truck and he's been praising it all over. The range is enough to go between pauses, and yes he can charge while resting. https://youtu.be/I4b-cybcgkM?si=gGTBfgApQ_ssDANu https://youtu.be/I4b-cybcgkM?si=gGTBfgApQ_ssDANu >>Most jurisdictions dont allow refueling or maintenance during driver rest periods. Well good thing recharging is not the same as refueling. Fueling requires an operator to be present and watching the pump for safety reasons. Recharging doesn't have such limitation.
- charcircuit 1y ago
  >Fueling requires an operator to be present and watching the pump for safety reasons Why can't pumping be made safe enough to not require supervison?
  - _flux 1y ago
    It probably could, but given filling up a semi takes just 10 minutes, perhaps it isn't considered cost-effective to do so.
morsch 1y ago
Cursory research indicates that in the EU, they are: If charging the battery of an electric heavy goods vehicle or bus requires supervision or involvement of the driver, then this time needs to be recorded as 'other work.' On the contrary, if the driver can freely dispose of her/his time while the battery is charging, then the time taken for the battery to charge has no effect on the breaks or the daily rest of the driver. Any movement of the vehicle from the charging location would be deemed to be an interruption or an end to a break or rest period. https://corte.be/images/documents/CORTE_ENF_007_2024_Elec_batteries_charging_enforcement561_recommandations_1.0.pdf https://corte.be/images/documents/CORTE_ENF_007_2024_Elec_ba...
- masklinn 1y ago
  According to the electric trucker channel there are rumblings about altering the last clause, because currently if you end your day at a charging station you can’t free it up and go to a regular parking space when you’re topped up.
  - crote 1y ago
    The problem is that it is still going to interrupt your rest, and therefore your focus while driving. Getting woken up at all is a problem, the fact that you can go back to sleep after 15 minutes doesn't really matter. I would be quite surprised if the EU was willing to mess with that. A better solution would be a truck stop with a charging connector per parking spot, and a way for the charger to dynamically connect to the trucks one-by-one. The driver can plug it in when they arrive, and the truck stop will handle the rest. Alternatively, build a bunch of low-speed chargers instead of a single high-speed charger. When it comes to overnight charging, everyone is going to be there for at least 9 hours anyways. No need to hurry up and finish that charging session in 30 minutes.
    - masklinn 1y ago
      > The problem is that it is still going to interrupt your rest, and therefore your focus while driving. Getting woken up at all is a problem, the fact that you can go back to sleep after 15 minutes doesn't really matter. I would be quite surprised if the EU was willing to mess with that. The problem is that sleeping is not the only activity during the rest period. A "standard" rest period by EU law is 11 hours. Going for a run, getting dinner, doing some life stuff, then moving the truck a few meters, is not going to kill the driver's focus, but currently it's either limiting (because you're now on reduced rest, or you need to rest 11 hours from moving the truck) or illegal. > Alternatively, build a bunch of low-speed chargers instead of a single high-speed charger. When it comes to overnight charging, everyone is going to be there for at least 9 hours anyways. No need to hurry up and finish that charging session in 30 minutes. That has its own issues, because it means you need to electrify essentially every truck parking spot where truckers might overnight.
mattlondon 1y ago
I suspect it is a lot to do with the capex too. I only recently got a personal electric car not because they only recently got good enough or only recently made sense, but rather because my last petrol car finally needed replacing. I suspect trucks are similar - they're not going to replace them right away when they have an existing one that is working fine and still has many years of use ahead of it. Keep using the existing ones until they need to replace them, then go EV. Otherwise you're losing that amortization of the capex
dazc 1y ago
Businesses are not suddenly going to dispose of their current fleet because something new comes along. For most, I imagine, their trucks will be on some kind of fixed-term lease agreement.
foobarbecue 1y ago
"If an electric trucks can save money, every business will switch immediately" Real life is not that simple. Depending on your cargo and routes, profitability might be about might be more about capacity (mass or volume), purchase cost, operating cost, max range, etc. And then... businesses have inertia and are only rational actors the extent that the people who control them are.
foobarbecue 1y ago
"If an electric trucks can save money, every business will switch immediately" Real life is not that simple. Depending on your cargo and routes, profitability might be about might be more about capacity (mass or volume), purchase cost, operating cost, max range, torque, reliability etc. And then... businesses have inertia and are only rational actors the extent that the people who control them are.

mdavid626 1y ago

True, most people don’t drive that much at once. BUT When I need to drive a lot, then I want to be able to do it. Driving for 600km / 6 hours, taking few hours break and coming back 600km the same day is easily possible with a gasoline/diesel car. It’s a pain with an electric one.

crote 1y ago
Is it, though? Modern luxury EVs have a range of close to 500km, and they are able to charge at over 1000km of range per hour. Split that 6-hour leg into two 3-hour legs with a 15-minute charging session & pee break, and you can easily do that. Besides, why optimize for the absolute best experience on your once-a-year trip? What about the _other_ 300+ days of the year? How much time are you going to save by plugging your car into a charger when you get home once or twice a week, instead of going to a petrol station to fill it up?
- mdavid626 1y ago
  Sounds good, but it's not reality, at least not for now. What you're describing is the absolute best scenarios - most expensive cars and MW charging stations. These I can't afford and the charging stations don't exist or are very rare (at least here in Europe). If it would be true, that'd be great. For me saving time on the gas station is negligible. I drive around anyway, but yes, I agree with you - charging at home is very cool. Just plug it in when you get home and you can drive in the morning. The only way I see this, have 2 cars. One for longer trips (diesel), one for shorter, every day usage (electric). But this needs 2 parking spaces, insurance, taxes etc. I can't affor this either.
  - dzhiurgis 1y ago
    150kW is roughly 1000km/h charge rate. There are tons of such stations around Europe. Even budget EVs have such charge rate and do 300km on a highway. Most charging stops I do I can't even leave my car to grab lunch because I'd have to be running back to unplug the charger.