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Even if they do, the cartels already own huge man & firepower. They will just move on to the next thing, maybe coffee, avocados, oil whatever. When you have ac

Even if they do, the cartels already own huge man & firepower. They will just move on to the next thing, maybe coffee, avocados, oil whatever. When you have accumulated so much power you can demand cash from the world around you.

stickfigure 1y ago
Coffee, avocados, and oil aren't illegal. But I'm pretty sure if you banned coffee it would spawn criminal gangs that made 1920s prohibition look tame. There's no substitute for the margins you can get in the illegal drug trade. Take away the primary source of funding and you make it much easier to break the gangs. We've already gone through this. Just legalize it already.
- whatever1 1y ago
  They could set a 1000% tax on the coffee produced, if they can consolidate control. Latin America is 50% of the world coffee production. What will Starbucks / Nestle do? They will just pay up. They can even go against the families of the execs to make their case about the new price.
  - torbid 1y ago
    They tried this before with fruit. The US companies just sold their interest in production and have plenty of other options for acquisition if they try to tax beyond the relative ease of South America verse anywhere else in the global south. I would agree that letting black market bs continue will eventually lead to groups that could threaten global control on random other commodities but that's no reason kick the can further down this road.
  - arijun 1y ago
    Part of the reason such a large percentage of coffee is grown there is because it's cheap. The cartels can (and do) make profit on legitimate crops, but they can't magically rewrite the rules of capitalism.
    - techjamie 1y ago
      Coffee beans are notoriously picky about their environment. But with modern technology, it wouldn't surprise me if large companies would resort to growing it in artificial greenhouses, or putting more stock in breeding plants that can be grown elsewhere.
  - hiccuphippo 1y ago
    > What will Starbucks / Nestle do? Finance wars. Like with the "Ten Cents War": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Pacific https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Pacific
  - potato3732842 1y ago
    >They could set a 1000% tax on the coffee produced. No they couldn't. That'd just mint another cartel run black market that they don't control and that cartel would tax the black market coffee at substantially less. You can kind of think of the current drugs situation as a "so big the number doesn't matter, it's a non stater" percent tax.
    - whatever1 1y ago
      That new cartel would invite a war against it. These disputes are not resolved through capitalistic means. You cannot just price out the big guys.
      - potato3732842 1y ago
        How is that any different than the current situation where the current cartel is fighting with the government?
- clvx 1y ago
  They already extortion every single producer. Any coffee and avocado coming from South America has an extortion tax somewhere in the supply chain whether it’s to the farmers, shipping companies, distribution center warehouses at port or whatever you imagine. The extortion comes as placing gang members as part of security, real threats or just bribes to unlock to keep moving towards the consumer. Illegal goods have better margins but extortions provide a platform for power and money with less effort.
- bjourne 1y ago
  Wasn't that same argument used for legalizing cannabis? How did that work out?
eviks 1y ago
Not really, the competition with the existing governments will significantly limit the amount of replacement cash they can demand, so they won't be able to sustain the same scale of man/firepower
preciousoo 1y ago
They'll probably move onto mass producing weaponry, which, depending on the sophistication and scale, could be big issues for the rest of the world. They already partner with terrorist groups and other unsavory orgs as-is. Any group worth mentioning these days interfaces with the cartels
- reactordev 1y ago
  I don’t think weapon production is in their wheelhouse. Arms dealing maybe but not manufacturing. Facilities like those are permanent locations. Permanent locations tend to get raided and attacked. I think controlling municipalities like they are is working fine for them. No need to mass produce weapons when you can just buy them.
  - whatever1 1y ago
    They do have expertise in manufacturing and managing manufacturing facilities and logistics though. Likely the production equipment is not very sophisticated/ hard to reproduce if destroyed. I don’t expect them to produce state of the art F35s anyway.
  - 15155 1y ago
    Where do you think this submersible was manufactured?
    - olyjohn 1y ago
      Building a couple of small boats isn't the same as mass producing weapons. I can build cars in my garage, but I'd need a machine shop full of extremely heavy equipment and tons of metal stock to build guns.
      - preciousoo 1y ago
        You severely underestimate the capability that they possess, both intellectually and materially. The skill(and more critically, engineering environment) that went into manufacturing the boat shows a lot
Jemm 1y ago
Applies to corporations as well but they do it legally and we consider part of our 'economy'. Heck we even subsidize them and give them the power to lobby and legally be a 'person'. - Problem? What Problem? I don't see no stinkin' Problem!
potato3732842 1y ago
Exactly. These cartels are basically competing governments. They're in the drugs industry in the same way that there's state oil industries. The only choose crime because that activity has to exist outside the existing government system.
m463 1y ago
high tariffs could make every commodity an opportunity.

stickfigure 1y ago

Coffee, avocados, and oil aren't illegal. But I'm pretty sure if you banned coffee it would spawn criminal gangs that made 1920s prohibition look tame. There's no substitute for the margins you can get in the illegal drug trade. Take away the primary source of funding and you make it much easier to break the gangs. We've already gone through this. Just legalize it already.

whatever1 1y ago
They could set a 1000% tax on the coffee produced, if they can consolidate control. Latin America is 50% of the world coffee production. What will Starbucks / Nestle do? They will just pay up. They can even go against the families of the execs to make their case about the new price.
- torbid 1y ago
  They tried this before with fruit. The US companies just sold their interest in production and have plenty of other options for acquisition if they try to tax beyond the relative ease of South America verse anywhere else in the global south. I would agree that letting black market bs continue will eventually lead to groups that could threaten global control on random other commodities but that's no reason kick the can further down this road.
- arijun 1y ago
  Part of the reason such a large percentage of coffee is grown there is because it's cheap. The cartels can (and do) make profit on legitimate crops, but they can't magically rewrite the rules of capitalism.
  - techjamie 1y ago
    Coffee beans are notoriously picky about their environment. But with modern technology, it wouldn't surprise me if large companies would resort to growing it in artificial greenhouses, or putting more stock in breeding plants that can be grown elsewhere.
- hiccuphippo 1y ago
  > What will Starbucks / Nestle do? Finance wars. Like with the "Ten Cents War": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Pacific https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_the_Pacific
- potato3732842 1y ago
  >They could set a 1000% tax on the coffee produced. No they couldn't. That'd just mint another cartel run black market that they don't control and that cartel would tax the black market coffee at substantially less. You can kind of think of the current drugs situation as a "so big the number doesn't matter, it's a non stater" percent tax.
  - whatever1 1y ago
    That new cartel would invite a war against it. These disputes are not resolved through capitalistic means. You cannot just price out the big guys.
    - potato3732842 1y ago
      How is that any different than the current situation where the current cartel is fighting with the government?
clvx 1y ago
They already extortion every single producer. Any coffee and avocado coming from South America has an extortion tax somewhere in the supply chain whether it’s to the farmers, shipping companies, distribution center warehouses at port or whatever you imagine. The extortion comes as placing gang members as part of security, real threats or just bribes to unlock to keep moving towards the consumer. Illegal goods have better margins but extortions provide a platform for power and money with less effort.
bjourne 1y ago
Wasn't that same argument used for legalizing cannabis? How did that work out?

eviks 1y ago

Not really, the competition with the existing governments will significantly limit the amount of replacement cash they can demand, so they won't be able to sustain the same scale of man/firepower

preciousoo 1y ago

They'll probably move onto mass producing weaponry, which, depending on the sophistication and scale, could be big issues for the rest of the world. They already partner with terrorist groups and other unsavory orgs as-is. Any group worth mentioning these days interfaces with the cartels

reactordev 1y ago
I don’t think weapon production is in their wheelhouse. Arms dealing maybe but not manufacturing. Facilities like those are permanent locations. Permanent locations tend to get raided and attacked. I think controlling municipalities like they are is working fine for them. No need to mass produce weapons when you can just buy them.
- whatever1 1y ago
  They do have expertise in manufacturing and managing manufacturing facilities and logistics though. Likely the production equipment is not very sophisticated/ hard to reproduce if destroyed. I don’t expect them to produce state of the art F35s anyway.
- 15155 1y ago
  Where do you think this submersible was manufactured?
  - olyjohn 1y ago
    Building a couple of small boats isn't the same as mass producing weapons. I can build cars in my garage, but I'd need a machine shop full of extremely heavy equipment and tons of metal stock to build guns.
    - preciousoo 1y ago
      You severely underestimate the capability that they possess, both intellectually and materially. The skill(and more critically, engineering environment) that went into manufacturing the boat shows a lot

Jemm 1y ago

Applies to corporations as well but they do it legally and we consider part of our 'economy'. Heck we even subsidize them and give them the power to lobby and legally be a 'person'. - Problem? What Problem? I don't see no stinkin' Problem!

potato3732842 1y ago

Exactly. These cartels are basically competing governments. They're in the drugs industry in the same way that there's state oil industries. The only choose crime because that activity has to exist outside the existing government system.

m463 1y ago

high tariffs could make every commodity an opportunity.