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Why doesn't Windows ship with an unarchiving utility?

FirmwareBurner 1y ago
It does ship with one, right click on zip file -> extract all. Why are you posting incorrect information that would have been clarified to you by a 3 second google search beforehand? It didn't ship in the distant past due to anti-competitive reasons but it is there now.
- doctorpangloss 1y ago
  It ships with a very terrible wizard. Maybe I should say, why does the Windows unarchiving feature suck?
  - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    >It ships with a very terrible wizard. Terrible how? It just needs to zip and unzip and it does that fine for most users. What else do you expect for casual users? For power usurers there's 7zip or WinRar or other solutions. > Maybe I should say, why does the Windows unarchiving feature suck? And what stopped you from saying that? HN rules say comments should be in good faith. What you said has clearly different meaning than what you say you meant.
    - Dylan16807 1y ago
      When it has bad support for just zip I think phrasing it as windows lacking an unarchiving utility is reasonable enough, and certainly not bad enough to get flagged like the comment currently is. It's not bad faith, jeez. I'm going to go vouch for the comment and hope it survives. And it's only because of that comment that I learned windows 11 finally improves things.
      - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
        Who's the judge of zip support being 'bad'? HN users are different breed of sticklers that aren't representative of the norm. There's a grand canyon gap between something not existing and you not liking it how it works because your personal tastes, hence why the comment is flagged, because it's in bad faith and disingenuous.
        Dylan16807 1y ago
        > Who's the judge of zip support being 'bad'? > HN users are different breed of sticklers that aren't representative of the norm. It acts kind of like a folder but tons of things don't work when you navigate into it. And it hasn't been improved in 20 years. It's bad. It's significantly worse for a random person because stuff breaks and they don't know why. At least if you try to run an exe it asks about extracting the whole thing so that one case is less likely to blow up. > There's a grand canyon gap between something not existing and you not liking it how it works because your personal tastes, hence why the comment is flagged, because it's in bad faith and disingenuous. Just the fact that it doesn't work for any other archive format is enough to make the original comment merely sloppy wording. It's not bad faith or disingenuous. Don't be so judgemental.
        FirmwareBurner 1y ago
        >Just the fact that it doesn't work for any other archive format Humor me, how popular or other non-zip formats for average Joe's uses? I'm a paper user and can't remember the last time I encountered a non zip format.
        Dylan16807 1y ago
        I'm not sure but I've sure seen a lot of winrar memes.
        FirmwareBurner 1y ago
        I guess that settles it.
    - kotaKat 1y ago
      The Extraction Wizard is a bit clunky opening a dialog box asking where you want to extract things... ...then a brief flash as the decompress happens because it's no longer 1998 and we're not extracting 2 MB of ZIP files on a Pentium 166, ... then you get a silly "complete!" screen with a pre-filled checkbox that spawns another Windows Explorer window by default. Eh, three clunky "wizard" screens is a bit much for a "extract here..." command.
      - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
        That never bothered me. That's a non issues for normal people.
  - jchw 1y ago
    I think you're talking about the extraction feature that came with ZIP folders. Aside from being clunky it's also rather inefficient and slow, it doesn't have any provisions for handling issues like mojibake, and is generally just not very robust. So why? AFAIK it's because the ZIP Folders/Visual ZIP code was basically integrated with Windows and then never updated. When it shipped in Windows XP (and possibly earlier, but I don't remember for sure) I think it was perfectly serviceable... it just didn't improve much over time. I can't really stomach Windows 11 so I don't personally use it but my understanding is that the latest version of Windows 11 has finally integrated a better solution, implementing archive extraction based on libarchive.
- rjsw 1y ago
  It doesn't ship with a working unarchive utility, the one that is included will discard anything that goes over the maximum pathname length.
  - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    Weird, I never ran into that issue. Am I holding it wrong?
  - monster_truck 1y ago
    It also tends to kill explorer any time you try to decompress anything you'd actually compress in the first place (ie 100gb of json or a db dump)
jore 1y ago
I think that at least since win10 there is zip embedded in windows, it’s just not 7z
- gertop 1y ago
  Zip support has been in Windows since XP. In 11 (and maybe later 10 updates) they added 7z and rar support.
  - OptionOfT 1y ago
    Except weirdly enough, when you open a .zip there is an "Extract All" button. When you open a .tar.gz or a .rar that button is gone. For those you need to do right mouse on the .tar.gz or .rar and click "Extract All...". I miss the days when Windows' UI was consistent.
    - extraduder_ire 1y ago
      I don't think windows UI has ever been consistent after the second release. It's just more noticeable on 11/10 because the last four releases each have a very distinct visual style.
- lousken 1y ago
  it goes much further back than that, think it was xp the issue is that it sucks, it's at least 10x slower than 7 zip, maybe more, showing lots of files/folders freezes the explorer gui on w10 and it only supports .zip (which could've been changed on w11, never used, never tried)
jchw 1y ago
Windows has shipped with "ZIP folders" and the ability to create and extract ZIP files since the late 90s/early 2000s I believe (not sure exactly what version.) As of the latest versions of Windows 11, Windows ships with libarchive-based archive extraction, which should let you extract many archives natively (including 7-zip and RAR) via the UI as well as the CLI (via BSD TAR, which also ships with Windows these days.)
- genocidicbunny 1y ago
  I think those first appeared in some form in XP. I don't recall 2000 having support for it integrated into explorer.
  - Dwedit 1y ago
    They were introduced in the Microsoft Plus package for Windows 98, then finally integrated into Windows ME. Windows ME was released after Windows 2000, so the feature didn't appear there. But it did appear in XP. You could actually install the Windows ME version of the shell extension on 2000.
    - genocidicbunny 1y ago
      Ah, well that might explain my thinking it came around in the XP days - by then I had discovered the WinRAR indefinite trial, so I didn't really need an alternative.
- Dwedit 1y ago
  ZIP Folders was developed by Dave Plummer from Microsoft (who runs the Dave's Garage YouTube channel). It was made in his spare time, then was licensed to Microsoft afterwards.
  - Suppafly 1y ago
    >ZIP Folders was developed by Dave Plummer from Microsoft I'm not sure I'd tell people I did that if it were me.
jccalhoun 1y ago
In October of 2023 Windows 11 was updated to use libarchive https://www.techspot.com/news/100663-windows-11-extends-support-archive-formats-thanks-open.html https://www.techspot.com/news/100663-windows-11-extends-supp...
Suppafly 1y ago
It does, but it's annoying because it treats things as folders, which I suppose is nice if you just want to look inside the zip, but a pain if you just want to extract something in a normal way like you'd do with any other unzipping utility.
- SomeHacker44 1y ago
  I wish there were an easy way to get Explorer not to show Zip files as a "folder." Such a huge anti feature for me.

It does ship with one, right click on zip file -> extract all. Why are you posting incorrect information that would have been clarified to you by a 3 second google search beforehand? It didn't ship in the distant past due to anti-competitive reasons but it is there now.

doctorpangloss 1y ago
It ships with a very terrible wizard. Maybe I should say, why does the Windows unarchiving feature suck?
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  >It ships with a very terrible wizard. Terrible how? It just needs to zip and unzip and it does that fine for most users. What else do you expect for casual users? For power usurers there's 7zip or WinRar or other solutions. > Maybe I should say, why does the Windows unarchiving feature suck? And what stopped you from saying that? HN rules say comments should be in good faith. What you said has clearly different meaning than what you say you meant.
  - Dylan16807 1y ago
    When it has bad support for just zip I think phrasing it as windows lacking an unarchiving utility is reasonable enough, and certainly not bad enough to get flagged like the comment currently is. It's not bad faith, jeez. I'm going to go vouch for the comment and hope it survives. And it's only because of that comment that I learned windows 11 finally improves things.
    - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
      Who's the judge of zip support being 'bad'? HN users are different breed of sticklers that aren't representative of the norm. There's a grand canyon gap between something not existing and you not liking it how it works because your personal tastes, hence why the comment is flagged, because it's in bad faith and disingenuous.
      - Dylan16807 1y ago
        > Who's the judge of zip support being 'bad'? > HN users are different breed of sticklers that aren't representative of the norm. It acts kind of like a folder but tons of things don't work when you navigate into it. And it hasn't been improved in 20 years. It's bad. It's significantly worse for a random person because stuff breaks and they don't know why. At least if you try to run an exe it asks about extracting the whole thing so that one case is less likely to blow up. > There's a grand canyon gap between something not existing and you not liking it how it works because your personal tastes, hence why the comment is flagged, because it's in bad faith and disingenuous. Just the fact that it doesn't work for any other archive format is enough to make the original comment merely sloppy wording. It's not bad faith or disingenuous. Don't be so judgemental.
        FirmwareBurner 1y ago
        >Just the fact that it doesn't work for any other archive format Humor me, how popular or other non-zip formats for average Joe's uses? I'm a paper user and can't remember the last time I encountered a non zip format.
        Dylan16807 1y ago
        I'm not sure but I've sure seen a lot of winrar memes.
        FirmwareBurner 1y ago
        I guess that settles it.
  - kotaKat 1y ago
    The Extraction Wizard is a bit clunky opening a dialog box asking where you want to extract things... ...then a brief flash as the decompress happens because it's no longer 1998 and we're not extracting 2 MB of ZIP files on a Pentium 166, ... then you get a silly "complete!" screen with a pre-filled checkbox that spawns another Windows Explorer window by default. Eh, three clunky "wizard" screens is a bit much for a "extract here..." command.
    - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
      That never bothered me. That's a non issues for normal people.
- jchw 1y ago
  I think you're talking about the extraction feature that came with ZIP folders. Aside from being clunky it's also rather inefficient and slow, it doesn't have any provisions for handling issues like mojibake, and is generally just not very robust. So why? AFAIK it's because the ZIP Folders/Visual ZIP code was basically integrated with Windows and then never updated. When it shipped in Windows XP (and possibly earlier, but I don't remember for sure) I think it was perfectly serviceable... it just didn't improve much over time. I can't really stomach Windows 11 so I don't personally use it but my understanding is that the latest version of Windows 11 has finally integrated a better solution, implementing archive extraction based on libarchive.
rjsw 1y ago
It doesn't ship with a working unarchive utility, the one that is included will discard anything that goes over the maximum pathname length.
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  Weird, I never ran into that issue. Am I holding it wrong?
- monster_truck 1y ago
  It also tends to kill explorer any time you try to decompress anything you'd actually compress in the first place (ie 100gb of json or a db dump)

jore 1y ago

I think that at least since win10 there is zip embedded in windows, it’s just not 7z

gertop 1y ago
Zip support has been in Windows since XP. In 11 (and maybe later 10 updates) they added 7z and rar support.
- OptionOfT 1y ago
  Except weirdly enough, when you open a .zip there is an "Extract All" button. When you open a .tar.gz or a .rar that button is gone. For those you need to do right mouse on the .tar.gz or .rar and click "Extract All...". I miss the days when Windows' UI was consistent.
  - extraduder_ire 1y ago
    I don't think windows UI has ever been consistent after the second release. It's just more noticeable on 11/10 because the last four releases each have a very distinct visual style.
lousken 1y ago
it goes much further back than that, think it was xp the issue is that it sucks, it's at least 10x slower than 7 zip, maybe more, showing lots of files/folders freezes the explorer gui on w10 and it only supports .zip (which could've been changed on w11, never used, never tried)

jchw 1y ago

Windows has shipped with "ZIP folders" and the ability to create and extract ZIP files since the late 90s/early 2000s I believe (not sure exactly what version.) As of the latest versions of Windows 11, Windows ships with libarchive-based archive extraction, which should let you extract many archives natively (including 7-zip and RAR) via the UI as well as the CLI (via BSD TAR, which also ships with Windows these days.)

genocidicbunny 1y ago
I think those first appeared in some form in XP. I don't recall 2000 having support for it integrated into explorer.
- Dwedit 1y ago
  They were introduced in the Microsoft Plus package for Windows 98, then finally integrated into Windows ME. Windows ME was released after Windows 2000, so the feature didn't appear there. But it did appear in XP. You could actually install the Windows ME version of the shell extension on 2000.
  - genocidicbunny 1y ago
    Ah, well that might explain my thinking it came around in the XP days - by then I had discovered the WinRAR indefinite trial, so I didn't really need an alternative.
Dwedit 1y ago
ZIP Folders was developed by Dave Plummer from Microsoft (who runs the Dave's Garage YouTube channel). It was made in his spare time, then was licensed to Microsoft afterwards.
- Suppafly 1y ago
  >ZIP Folders was developed by Dave Plummer from Microsoft I'm not sure I'd tell people I did that if it were me.

jccalhoun 1y ago

In October of 2023 Windows 11 was updated to use libarchive https://www.techspot.com/news/100663-windows-11-extends-support-archive-formats-thanks-open.html https://www.techspot.com/news/100663-windows-11-extends-supp...

Suppafly 1y ago

It does, but it's annoying because it treats things as folders, which I suppose is nice if you just want to look inside the zip, but a pain if you just want to extract something in a normal way like you'd do with any other unzipping utility.

SomeHacker44 1y ago
I wish there were an easy way to get Explorer not to show Zip files as a "folder." Such a huge anti feature for me.