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Yeah, Bitcoin was in a big bubble in 2017. If you were dumb enough to buy BTC then, today your portfolio would be a devastating +400%.

griffzhowl 1y ago
Only if you'd held on to it while it went from 17k to 3k a month later, and the many ups and downs since. That's not necessarily a sound investment strategy without hindsight
rvz 1y ago
Remember what HN kept parroting in 2017? "bItCoIn is sCaM". So much of a scam that buying that coveted Tesla Model S in 2017 would sure have held its value much better than Bitcoin did and by now in 2025, Bitcoin should be worthless. Right? Not even close. If Bitcoin was a scam, was it supposed to "crash" from $10k to $100k+ and that Tesla Model S "skyrocketed" from $100k+ to around $40k from its retail price. Sounds like buying a Tesla Model S in 2017 was a scam.
- AlecSchueler 1y ago
  > Remember what HN kept parroting in 2017? "bItCoIn is sCaM". Honestly, no.
  - johnisgood 1y ago
    I was here, and they still keep saying the same thing. There was a recent submission about Bitcoin. People were still saying how it is a scam and whatnot. Scam or not, many people have gotten rich off of it. I bet the people who kept saying it is a scam wish'd they bought when it was low, they would have been rich today, instead, they double down (because they completely missed their chance due to their opinion), which is to be expected. Too bad, life goes on, and you most likely will never get ~10 BTCs for the price of a bread anymore.
    - AlexandrB 1y ago
      Many more people have also lost money on it[1]. A Casino is also a great "investment" if you only count the winners. [1] https://gizmodo.com/bitcoin-crypto-bank-of-international-settlements-1849784466 https://gizmodo.com/bitcoin-crypto-bank-of-international-set...
      - johnisgood 1y ago
        I cannot imagine how people who have bought BTC early on for the price of bread lost their money. Care to shed some light on it? I understand that you cannot take out "lots of" money out of banks (that is how they work), but there are ways. Multiple cryptocurrency exchanges, etc.
        AlecSchueler 1y ago
        2017 wasn't really "early on" and coins weren't trading for <5 euros so that doesn't seem entirely fair, given the original point.
- AlexandrB 1y ago
  I'm confused. Who would think buying a car (any car) is an investment that would increase in value? And just because the value of Bitcoin has gone up, doesn't mean it's not a scam. "Market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent." Bitcoin continues to fail at its stated goal of being a currency - it's more like digital gold that, unlike actual gold, would be worthless in a real global crisis. A lot of bitcoin-adjacent stuff has also collapsed since 2017 (NFTs, FTX). The idea of putting everything "on the blockchain" also seems to have died.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- nkrisc 1y ago
  You should slap whoever taught you that a car was an investment.
- cornholio 1y ago
  Bitcoin is still a criminal ecosystem in 2025. Its only real use case still is enabling illegal transactions and evading financial regulations, and that maintains its speculative value; but that's still a scam not a true investment just like a business used as a front for Mafia appears stable until it inevitably comes crashing down. But I don't think anyone claimed criminality is not profitable. It can literally make you President.
  - diggan 1y ago
    > Bitcoin is still a criminal ecosystem in 2025 Welcome to reality, where good/neutral things sometimes are used for bad :) Name one financial system that doesn't have any elements of criminality involved in them. > Its only real use case still is enabling illegal transactions and evading financial regulations, and that maintains its speculative value So if I and others happen to have done at least one transaction with Bitcoin that wasn't illegal or evaded financial regulations, would presenting proof of that leading to you changing your view that there is no real use cases? > that's still a scam not a true investment Personally I draw the limit of what a "scam" is when it's intentionally misleading with the purpose of defrauding you. Bitcoin doesn't look like it's either of those things, but I will agree that the ecosystem has a lot of scammers within it, just like any financial system.
    - cornholio 1y ago
      > I and others happen to have done at least one transaction with Bitcoin that wasn't illegal or evaded financial regulations Is it a transaction that would have likely been faster, more convenient, secure, cheaper and with less or zero volatility risk using a traditional, centralized funds transfer system, especially if both parties could agree beforehand on the best modern system for that use case instead of being forced to accept cumbersome antiquated things like credit cards? Because nobody disputes payments are possible with cryptocurrency; just that the practical benefits for legal activities are non-existent or negative, so the only remaining draw are speculation and circumvention.
      - diggan 1y ago
- raincole 1y ago
  ...I know what you're trying to say, but cars are the textbook example of assets that don't preserve value.

griffzhowl 1y ago

Only if you'd held on to it while it went from 17k to 3k a month later, and the many ups and downs since. That's not necessarily a sound investment strategy without hindsight

rvz 1y ago

Remember what HN kept parroting in 2017? "bItCoIn is sCaM". So much of a scam that buying that coveted Tesla Model S in 2017 would sure have held its value much better than Bitcoin did and by now in 2025, Bitcoin should be worthless. Right? Not even close. If Bitcoin was a scam, was it supposed to "crash" from $10k to $100k+ and that Tesla Model S "skyrocketed" from $100k+ to around $40k from its retail price. Sounds like buying a Tesla Model S in 2017 was a scam.

AlecSchueler 1y ago
> Remember what HN kept parroting in 2017? "bItCoIn is sCaM". Honestly, no.
- johnisgood 1y ago
  I was here, and they still keep saying the same thing. There was a recent submission about Bitcoin. People were still saying how it is a scam and whatnot. Scam or not, many people have gotten rich off of it. I bet the people who kept saying it is a scam wish'd they bought when it was low, they would have been rich today, instead, they double down (because they completely missed their chance due to their opinion), which is to be expected. Too bad, life goes on, and you most likely will never get ~10 BTCs for the price of a bread anymore.
  - AlexandrB 1y ago
    Many more people have also lost money on it[1]. A Casino is also a great "investment" if you only count the winners. [1] https://gizmodo.com/bitcoin-crypto-bank-of-international-settlements-1849784466 https://gizmodo.com/bitcoin-crypto-bank-of-international-set...
    - johnisgood 1y ago
      I cannot imagine how people who have bought BTC early on for the price of bread lost their money. Care to shed some light on it? I understand that you cannot take out "lots of" money out of banks (that is how they work), but there are ways. Multiple cryptocurrency exchanges, etc.
      - AlecSchueler 1y ago
        2017 wasn't really "early on" and coins weren't trading for <5 euros so that doesn't seem entirely fair, given the original point.
AlexandrB 1y ago
I'm confused. Who would think buying a car (any car) is an investment that would increase in value? And just because the value of Bitcoin has gone up, doesn't mean it's not a scam. "Market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent." Bitcoin continues to fail at its stated goal of being a currency - it's more like digital gold that, unlike actual gold, would be worthless in a real global crisis. A lot of bitcoin-adjacent stuff has also collapsed since 2017 (NFTs, FTX). The idea of putting everything "on the blockchain" also seems to have died.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
nkrisc 1y ago
You should slap whoever taught you that a car was an investment.
cornholio 1y ago
Bitcoin is still a criminal ecosystem in 2025. Its only real use case still is enabling illegal transactions and evading financial regulations, and that maintains its speculative value; but that's still a scam not a true investment just like a business used as a front for Mafia appears stable until it inevitably comes crashing down. But I don't think anyone claimed criminality is not profitable. It can literally make you President.
- diggan 1y ago
  > Bitcoin is still a criminal ecosystem in 2025 Welcome to reality, where good/neutral things sometimes are used for bad :) Name one financial system that doesn't have any elements of criminality involved in them. > Its only real use case still is enabling illegal transactions and evading financial regulations, and that maintains its speculative value So if I and others happen to have done at least one transaction with Bitcoin that wasn't illegal or evaded financial regulations, would presenting proof of that leading to you changing your view that there is no real use cases? > that's still a scam not a true investment Personally I draw the limit of what a "scam" is when it's intentionally misleading with the purpose of defrauding you. Bitcoin doesn't look like it's either of those things, but I will agree that the ecosystem has a lot of scammers within it, just like any financial system.
  - cornholio 1y ago
    > I and others happen to have done at least one transaction with Bitcoin that wasn't illegal or evaded financial regulations Is it a transaction that would have likely been faster, more convenient, secure, cheaper and with less or zero volatility risk using a traditional, centralized funds transfer system, especially if both parties could agree beforehand on the best modern system for that use case instead of being forced to accept cumbersome antiquated things like credit cards? Because nobody disputes payments are possible with cryptocurrency; just that the practical benefits for legal activities are non-existent or negative, so the only remaining draw are speculation and circumvention.
    - diggan 1y ago
raincole 1y ago
...I know what you're trying to say, but cars are the textbook example of assets that don't preserve value.