5 ms·

CU Randomness Beacon

64 points by wello 1y ago

Cshelton 1y ago
Sorry, can't help myself! The Ralphie running demo on the site is hilarious. Some say, you could just use Ralphie's actual runs from this past year, true randomness!
CaliforniaKarl 1y ago
Ah, another randomness beacon! Although I wish it used the same API as NIST's beacon, either the v1 or v2 API.
- eadmund 1y ago
  NIST v2: https://csrc.nist.gov/projects/interoperable-randomness-beacons/beacon-20 https://csrc.nist.gov/projects/interoperable-randomness-beac... NIST v2: https://csrc.nist.gov/projects/interoperable-randomness-beacons/beacon-10 https://csrc.nist.gov/projects/interoperable-randomness-beac...
  - jebarker 1y ago
    Interestingly NIST also has a large campus in Boulder. Maybe Boulder is the epi-center of randomness??
- zefhous 1y ago
  Then one could dynamically and randomly choose which randomness beacon to use! I like it.
  - lxgr 1y ago
    Ideally you’d use all of them by mixing their outputs together.
Octokat 1y ago
Skobuffs!
- clncy 1y ago
  The beacon to be guarded at all times by Ralphie??
ntnsndr 1y ago
A use case for a blockchain?
- DamonHD 1y ago
  There are good uses for block-chain like things, even beyond sprinking in a mention to help raise grant funding, but the headline-grabbers have generally not been those...
- PretzelPirate 1y ago
  It must be since they use a blockchain for this to decentralized and verify the timestamps.
tonnydourado 1y ago
laughs in Brazilian
ribcage 1y ago
Things like these are absolutely idiotic. Every single computer, be it a laptop or desktop or a phone, are able to produce randomness. Why in the hell would you trust a random website?
- svota 1y ago
  Because, firstly, this is a university, not some rando self-hosting, and secondly, you can't generate randomness from any classical computer, only pseudorandomness [0]. This means that a dedicated adversary can potentially work out what the outcome will be. For something like the use cases they mention - jury selection, lottery, etc. - you want actual randomness. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudorandomness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudorandomness
  - throw0101d 1y ago
    > […] you can't generate randomness from any classical computer, only pseudorandomness [0]. Back in 1999 Intel used amplified thermal noise from analog circuits on their chips to generate randomness: * PDF: https://web.archive.org/web/20100714102630/https://www.cryptography.com/public/pdf/IntelRNG.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20100714102630/https://www.crypt... This was further refined and in 2011 they published how RdRand (formerly "Bull Mountain") works: * https://spectrum.ieee.org/behind-intels-new-randomnumber-generator https://spectrum.ieee.org/behind-intels-new-randomnumber-gen... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RDRAND https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RDRAND * PDF: https://www.intel.com/content/dam/develop/external/us/en/documents/441-intel-r-drng-software-implementation-guide-final-aug7.pdf https://www.intel.com/content/dam/develop/external/us/en/doc... So classical computers can generate randomness if you have the right circuits for it.
    - treyd 1y ago
      > So classical computers can generate randomness if you have the right circuits for it. That is by definition not a classical computer. It's not a quantum computer, but it's probabilistic in a limited sense.
wslh 1y ago
I recommend to also jump to "What is the Twine Protocol" [1] where they created a blockchain without a consensus layers because they have a level of trust in timestamps. [1] https://docs.twine.world/twine-protocol-documentation https://docs.twine.world/twine-protocol-documentation
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
spelunker 1y ago
The source of their randomness is interesting, as someone not well-versed in physics: https://random.colorado.edu/concepts/traceable-randomness https://random.colorado.edu/concepts/traceable-randomness
grokgrok 1y ago
Imagine the terrors of multiple government agencies synchronizing ID selection to an identical source of randomness. Congrats, you won jury duty, a tax audit AND selective service!
- RainyDayTmrw 1y ago
  One would want to use something like HKDF[1] to create derived values with domain separation. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HKDF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HKDF
wuiheerfoj 1y ago
Verifiable quantum randomness sounds interesting - https://drand.love https://drand.love is another verifiable randomness beacon, though using more traditional cryptography

64 points by wello 1y ago

Sorry, can't help myself! The Ralphie running demo on the site is hilarious. Some say, you could just use Ralphie's actual runs from this past year, true randomness!

CaliforniaKarl 1y ago

Ah, another randomness beacon! Although I wish it used the same API as NIST's beacon, either the v1 or v2 API.

eadmund 1y ago
NIST v2: https://csrc.nist.gov/projects/interoperable-randomness-beacons/beacon-20 https://csrc.nist.gov/projects/interoperable-randomness-beac... NIST v2: https://csrc.nist.gov/projects/interoperable-randomness-beacons/beacon-10 https://csrc.nist.gov/projects/interoperable-randomness-beac...
- jebarker 1y ago
  Interestingly NIST also has a large campus in Boulder. Maybe Boulder is the epi-center of randomness??
zefhous 1y ago
Then one could dynamically and randomly choose which randomness beacon to use! I like it.
- lxgr 1y ago
  Ideally you’d use all of them by mixing their outputs together.

Octokat 1y ago

Skobuffs!

clncy 1y ago
The beacon to be guarded at all times by Ralphie??

ntnsndr 1y ago

A use case for a blockchain?

DamonHD 1y ago
There are good uses for block-chain like things, even beyond sprinking in a mention to help raise grant funding, but the headline-grabbers have generally not been those...
PretzelPirate 1y ago
It must be since they use a blockchain for this to decentralized and verify the timestamps.

tonnydourado 1y ago

laughs in Brazilian

ribcage 1y ago

Things like these are absolutely idiotic. Every single computer, be it a laptop or desktop or a phone, are able to produce randomness. Why in the hell would you trust a random website?

svota 1y ago
Because, firstly, this is a university, not some rando self-hosting, and secondly, you can't generate randomness from any classical computer, only pseudorandomness [0]. This means that a dedicated adversary can potentially work out what the outcome will be. For something like the use cases they mention - jury selection, lottery, etc. - you want actual randomness. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudorandomness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudorandomness
- throw0101d 1y ago
  > […] you can't generate randomness from any classical computer, only pseudorandomness [0]. Back in 1999 Intel used amplified thermal noise from analog circuits on their chips to generate randomness: * PDF: https://web.archive.org/web/20100714102630/https://www.cryptography.com/public/pdf/IntelRNG.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20100714102630/https://www.crypt... This was further refined and in 2011 they published how RdRand (formerly "Bull Mountain") works: * https://spectrum.ieee.org/behind-intels-new-randomnumber-generator https://spectrum.ieee.org/behind-intels-new-randomnumber-gen... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RDRAND https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RDRAND * PDF: https://www.intel.com/content/dam/develop/external/us/en/documents/441-intel-r-drng-software-implementation-guide-final-aug7.pdf https://www.intel.com/content/dam/develop/external/us/en/doc... So classical computers can generate randomness if you have the right circuits for it.
  - treyd 1y ago
    > So classical computers can generate randomness if you have the right circuits for it. That is by definition not a classical computer. It's not a quantum computer, but it's probabilistic in a limited sense.

wslh 1y ago

I recommend to also jump to "What is the Twine Protocol" [1] where they created a blockchain without a consensus layers because they have a level of trust in timestamps. [1] https://docs.twine.world/twine-protocol-documentation https://docs.twine.world/twine-protocol-documentation

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

spelunker 1y ago

The source of their randomness is interesting, as someone not well-versed in physics: https://random.colorado.edu/concepts/traceable-randomness https://random.colorado.edu/concepts/traceable-randomness

grokgrok 1y ago

Imagine the terrors of multiple government agencies synchronizing ID selection to an identical source of randomness. Congrats, you won jury duty, a tax audit AND selective service!

RainyDayTmrw 1y ago
One would want to use something like HKDF[1] to create derived values with domain separation. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HKDF https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HKDF

wuiheerfoj 1y ago

Verifiable quantum randomness sounds interesting - https://drand.love https://drand.love is another verifiable randomness beacon, though using more traditional cryptography