6 ms·

What is the difference between this and leadership being in the committees, boards and executive seats of multiple companies? Why is it the social expectation

What is the difference between this and leadership being in the committees, boards and executive seats of multiple companies? Why is it the social expectation that an IC must devote 100% of their time and energy to the operations of a single company, when their senior leadership often manages their time between the affairs of many companies in their purview?

mytailorisrich 1y ago
You've answer your own question. If you are hired to work full-time you are expected to do that (as per your contract). If you are on a board or committee the expectation is a number of hours per month.
- anonzzzies 1y ago
  But fulltime is a contract thing (at least here) and defined by 40 hrs a week. In my country 32-36 in contracts is also called fulltime. So after those hours, I did my fulltime and now you do not own me until the next 40 hours. Unless working for competitors currently here you cannot make valid contracts to prevent it either.
  - mytailorisrich 1y ago
    There are contractual terms, including things that are likely to be conflict of interests or impact performance. And depending on jurisdiction there are also laws on working hours: 48 hours max. per week on average in the UK and EU across all jobs (it is possible to opt out) and with minimum rest times. Because employers can be held liable, if they find out they won't let you. The comment I was replying to does not make sense.
  - closewith 1y ago
    However, if you are in the EU, then all your employers are jointly responsible for ensuring that your collective working hours don't breach the Working Time Directive, which means 48 hours as the maximum average working week, calculated over a 4-month period, across all employers (excluding certain statutory roles like seamen, law enforcement, and military).
nottorp 1y ago
Incidentally, why aren't there more part time positions? Probably because said leadership would then be unable to keep their employees in meetings since they're supposed to do some actual work once in a while.
- aleph_minus_one 1y ago
  > Incidentally, why aren't there more part time positions? It is obviously easier to manage a small group of people who work full-time than a larger group of people who work part-time. So, if there does not exist a strong wish for part-time positions from the employees, few will be created. Also, a lot of employees are there "for the money". So getting paid much worse for a part-time position is considered to be the worse deal by many employees.
- Lyngbakr 1y ago
  At the C-suite level, I'm noticing more "fractional" positions, which — as far as I can tell — is a fancier way of saying part time. (This may be the Baader–Meinhof phenomenon at work, though.)
- ozim 1y ago
  Go ask wait staff or warehouse workers how much they like their part time jobs.
  - nottorp 1y ago
    So why would you deny me the right to hold several part time contracts instead of a full time "job"? I'm not in those industries.
    - ozim 1y ago
      It is not about denying but showcasing that it might not be as beneficial as you somehow believe.
      - nottorp 1y ago
matwood 1y ago
IME, employees are on committees and boards (though not public company boards all that often) all the time. The issue here taking multiple full time positions. A CEO being the CEO of multiple companies at once is not common, and when it does happen it tends to draw a lot of scrutiny. CEO is considered a full time job, showing up to a board meeting every quarter is not. The second part of this is disclosure, which was not done in this case.
- killingtime74 1y ago
  One particular CEO in the news is at the head of 3 companies
  - skeeter2020 1y ago
    "at the head" of large - especially publicly traded - companies is not the same as trying to run all aspects of the day-to-day. It also rarely (ever?) happens when they don't have a big ownership stake, or are there primarily as a figurehead. We can debate if the executive timeline is too short and that's what destroys companies, but I don't see how this is the same as an over-employed engineer who's spread too thin.
    - kevmo314 1y ago
      Many would argue that, indeed, said public CEO is spread too thin.
eviks 1y ago
The difference is pretty explicit in the terms and conditions? By the way, there are also leadership positions with similar limitations on your ability to take outside roles.
- killingtime74 1y ago
  Interesting. So elon's terms and conditions says he's a part-time employee?
Barrin92 1y ago
>What is the difference between this and leadership being in the committees That this involved lying to your employers. There is no social expectation that you only work one job, plenty of people work multiple jobs, but there is a social expectation that you do what you said you'd do, and it turns out you have a bit of a mathematical problem if you try to work 4 eight hour jobs in a 24 hour day. Which is, as per the article, how he was caught. Turns out if you call in sick at one place and then push code to github for your other jobs most employers aren't paying you for that.
- tkiolp4 1y ago
  Please. Employers are going after the your last drop of blood. The only reason that’s socially accepted is because they have the power to do so, and because it has been like that since ever. You make one mistake and you’re fired (sometimes even you’re fired randomly); the company is not earning as much as last year? Layoffs! AI can do part of your job? Layoffs! It’s silly and servant-like to think you are in an equal-to-equal position when dealing with a company and that you cannot dedicate your time to other endeavors just because they wrote that in a paper. If it turns out that they don’t like how you perform while doing multiple jobs, they will fire you, just like they will fire you even if you work just for them.
  - Barrin92 1y ago
    I'm in an equal to equal position to not sign any contract I don't like. What is it with this whiny attitude in this industry? We're talking specifically about software engineers. The guy worked four six figure jobs raking in 40 grand a month and didn't show up to work. Can we stop pretending we're oppressed workers because we have to show up from 9-5, Jesus.
    - asdf6969 1y ago
      In my experience I have no leverage and the contract is too vague to mean anything. The contract I signed says my job conditions and work hours are subject to change at any time. I understand I took a risk, but things were fine for years before they wanted me to start being available 24/7 or work late into the night. In environments like this the only sane thing to do is reluctantly accept the terms of the contract and push as many boundaries as I can. Just because the employer pays me and I signed a contract doesn’t mean I can’t complain or push back. Do you think I should also dance like a Walmart employee in the morning if my employer tells me to? The contract I signed says yes but in reality it doesn’t matter
ozim 1y ago
when their senior leadership often manages their time between the affairs of many companies in their purview It is kind of tiring for me to read people equating "Elon Musk" with "all those rich guys being CEOs". When you really are a business owner OFTEN you have to devote 120% of your time and energy for running the company and single one. People you see on TV flying private jets to expensive holiday destinations are not your average business owners. Elon and the likes are the exception not the norm.
- jen20 1y ago
  Musk isn’t even the first person I thought of here (it was Jack Dorsey).
rsynnott 1y ago
> when their senior leadership often manages their time between the affairs of many companies in their purview? This is extremely rare; generally a CxO is a full-time job. Elon Musk is a notable exception, and, ah, it doesn't seem to be going _great_. Being a _board_ member isn't usually a significant time commitment.
confidantlake 1y ago
He is not in their social class. The rules for the peasants don't apply to the lords.

mytailorisrich 1y ago

You've answer your own question. If you are hired to work full-time you are expected to do that (as per your contract). If you are on a board or committee the expectation is a number of hours per month.

anonzzzies 1y ago
But fulltime is a contract thing (at least here) and defined by 40 hrs a week. In my country 32-36 in contracts is also called fulltime. So after those hours, I did my fulltime and now you do not own me until the next 40 hours. Unless working for competitors currently here you cannot make valid contracts to prevent it either.
- mytailorisrich 1y ago
  There are contractual terms, including things that are likely to be conflict of interests or impact performance. And depending on jurisdiction there are also laws on working hours: 48 hours max. per week on average in the UK and EU across all jobs (it is possible to opt out) and with minimum rest times. Because employers can be held liable, if they find out they won't let you. The comment I was replying to does not make sense.
- closewith 1y ago
  However, if you are in the EU, then all your employers are jointly responsible for ensuring that your collective working hours don't breach the Working Time Directive, which means 48 hours as the maximum average working week, calculated over a 4-month period, across all employers (excluding certain statutory roles like seamen, law enforcement, and military).

nottorp 1y ago

Incidentally, why aren't there more part time positions? Probably because said leadership would then be unable to keep their employees in meetings since they're supposed to do some actual work once in a while.

aleph_minus_one 1y ago
> Incidentally, why aren't there more part time positions? It is obviously easier to manage a small group of people who work full-time than a larger group of people who work part-time. So, if there does not exist a strong wish for part-time positions from the employees, few will be created. Also, a lot of employees are there "for the money". So getting paid much worse for a part-time position is considered to be the worse deal by many employees.
Lyngbakr 1y ago
At the C-suite level, I'm noticing more "fractional" positions, which — as far as I can tell — is a fancier way of saying part time. (This may be the Baader–Meinhof phenomenon at work, though.)
ozim 1y ago
Go ask wait staff or warehouse workers how much they like their part time jobs.
- nottorp 1y ago
  So why would you deny me the right to hold several part time contracts instead of a full time "job"? I'm not in those industries.
  - ozim 1y ago
    It is not about denying but showcasing that it might not be as beneficial as you somehow believe.
    - nottorp 1y ago

matwood 1y ago

IME, employees are on committees and boards (though not public company boards all that often) all the time. The issue here taking multiple full time positions. A CEO being the CEO of multiple companies at once is not common, and when it does happen it tends to draw a lot of scrutiny. CEO is considered a full time job, showing up to a board meeting every quarter is not. The second part of this is disclosure, which was not done in this case.

killingtime74 1y ago
One particular CEO in the news is at the head of 3 companies
- skeeter2020 1y ago
  "at the head" of large - especially publicly traded - companies is not the same as trying to run all aspects of the day-to-day. It also rarely (ever?) happens when they don't have a big ownership stake, or are there primarily as a figurehead. We can debate if the executive timeline is too short and that's what destroys companies, but I don't see how this is the same as an over-employed engineer who's spread too thin.
  - kevmo314 1y ago
    Many would argue that, indeed, said public CEO is spread too thin.

eviks 1y ago

The difference is pretty explicit in the terms and conditions? By the way, there are also leadership positions with similar limitations on your ability to take outside roles.

killingtime74 1y ago
Interesting. So elon's terms and conditions says he's a part-time employee?

Barrin92 1y ago

>What is the difference between this and leadership being in the committees That this involved lying to your employers. There is no social expectation that you only work one job, plenty of people work multiple jobs, but there is a social expectation that you do what you said you'd do, and it turns out you have a bit of a mathematical problem if you try to work 4 eight hour jobs in a 24 hour day. Which is, as per the article, how he was caught. Turns out if you call in sick at one place and then push code to github for your other jobs most employers aren't paying you for that.

tkiolp4 1y ago
Please. Employers are going after the your last drop of blood. The only reason that’s socially accepted is because they have the power to do so, and because it has been like that since ever. You make one mistake and you’re fired (sometimes even you’re fired randomly); the company is not earning as much as last year? Layoffs! AI can do part of your job? Layoffs! It’s silly and servant-like to think you are in an equal-to-equal position when dealing with a company and that you cannot dedicate your time to other endeavors just because they wrote that in a paper. If it turns out that they don’t like how you perform while doing multiple jobs, they will fire you, just like they will fire you even if you work just for them.
- Barrin92 1y ago
  I'm in an equal to equal position to not sign any contract I don't like. What is it with this whiny attitude in this industry? We're talking specifically about software engineers. The guy worked four six figure jobs raking in 40 grand a month and didn't show up to work. Can we stop pretending we're oppressed workers because we have to show up from 9-5, Jesus.
  - asdf6969 1y ago
    In my experience I have no leverage and the contract is too vague to mean anything. The contract I signed says my job conditions and work hours are subject to change at any time. I understand I took a risk, but things were fine for years before they wanted me to start being available 24/7 or work late into the night. In environments like this the only sane thing to do is reluctantly accept the terms of the contract and push as many boundaries as I can. Just because the employer pays me and I signed a contract doesn’t mean I can’t complain or push back. Do you think I should also dance like a Walmart employee in the morning if my employer tells me to? The contract I signed says yes but in reality it doesn’t matter

ozim 1y ago

when their senior leadership often manages their time between the affairs of many companies in their purview It is kind of tiring for me to read people equating "Elon Musk" with "all those rich guys being CEOs". When you really are a business owner OFTEN you have to devote 120% of your time and energy for running the company and single one. People you see on TV flying private jets to expensive holiday destinations are not your average business owners. Elon and the likes are the exception not the norm.

jen20 1y ago
Musk isn’t even the first person I thought of here (it was Jack Dorsey).

rsynnott 1y ago

> when their senior leadership often manages their time between the affairs of many companies in their purview? This is extremely rare; generally a CxO is a full-time job. Elon Musk is a notable exception, and, ah, it doesn't seem to be going _great_. Being a _board_ member isn't usually a significant time commitment.

confidantlake 1y ago

He is not in their social class. The rules for the peasants don't apply to the lords.