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As a Labrador swam by me out to sea his owner said I hope he doesn't meet a seal
- abstractspoon 1y agoBeautiful
- phito 1y agoI feel like I'm having a stroke trying to read this title
- fsargent 1y agoStroking a Labrador is one of life’s few pleasures.
- mieses 1y agoMe too. but the essay is pretty good. there will be AI copies of humans but never of dogs.
- anonym29 1y agoBoston Dynamics would like a word.
- mananaysiempre 1y agoNot the AIBO team at Sony?
- b112 1y agoWait that's an excellent idea! We've had 'real dolls' for decades, and these same methods could be applied to the ascetics of a dog android. And canine behaviour is more easily modeled, more easily mimicked, we could throw a very simple AI in there. No highly dexterous hands to concern one with either. This is the perfect way to start on human androids. Cut our teeth on this, perfect this, then use the same knowledge to build humanform robots. The patents we'll accrue make it worth it on its own! Best part is you wouldn't NEED to take them for a walk. No need to clean up their leavings. And if you wanted that part of the experience, it could be fertilizer, clean, specifically designed to help the local plants. We could make a mint selling it, plus, we'd ensure no pesky odour. Or even better, what the dog simulates as leavings, could be bird food or some such! Each packaged drop, would feed the local pigeons, self-cleanup! And dog treats! We'd have them beg for treats, but their innards will only accept treats made, and licensed specifically for the dog. In fact, without our specific dog food, the animal will "wither" and die! We'll make a killing! Johnson, get the design team in here pronto! (Applies to YC, 12 months later 'mieses' sees such creations in Walmart) NOTE: the above was a Google project, but once it hit the shelves, and with record breaking sales, Google cancelled it for inexplicable reasons.
- xeonmc 1y agoIt’s brilliant. Instant benefits from the reward of a strong emotional bond, without ever toiling through the journey of forging one!
- mieses 1y agointeresting and funny. But I do not agree with your premise that it is easier to make an successful AI dog than a successful AI human. Humans pay more attention to their dogs than to humans, for obvious reasons. We would not mind a human that acted like an AI - the artificiality simplifies the relationship and is a positive feature. With dogs, we notice the slightest detail and would be bothered by AI limitations. We might act the same way towards music and art. We would spend hours listening to an album or looking at a painting while trying our best to ignore the people around us. The posters that describe the dog "experience" in a simple mechanistic way have probably never owned a dog. Another way of looking at it - we have to deal with humans. We choose to deal with a dog. Therefore the dog AI has more to live up to.
- secret-noun 1y agoThe old man the boat
- isoprophlex 1y agoCan't believe this is the first time I come across this gem. A worthy contender to "Eats shoots and leaves".
- js2 1y agoSurely you're familiar with Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo, however.
- navigate8310 1y agoI thought I was the only one noticing a very odd way to express something.
- VagabundoP 1y agoPerfectly cromulent.
- trhway 1y agoHerding skills, sheepdogs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAjc502ALOM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAjc502ALOM Also reminded - we had neighbors with 2 cats, an experienced and cynical large red one and a naive curious tabby. They spent a lot of time outdoor wandering around, and the tabby was always trying to get everywhere, very friendly, and the red one was always very suspicious about everything and very worried and watchful over the tabby. Unfortunately the tabby got killed by a car. The neighbors after some time took another cat. The red one never let the new cat to leave their patio. Getting to sit on the patio fence was the maximum she would let him, and on any attempt to get down outside of the fence she would firmly herd him back.
- a_ba 1y agoAnd not only ducks https://youtu.be/y07at1bU89Q?feature=shared https://youtu.be/y07at1bU89Q?feature=shared
- SethMurphy 1y agoIt always fascinated me that particular behaviors, like herding, can be so ingrained to a particular breed of dog. The dog is no longer in a setting where this is crucial to their survival, yet the urge exists. I do wonder for how many generations the behaviors would last, assuming the dominant genes were not surpressed. That is of course assuming genes are the factor that drives it. It's almost as if environment has little to do with the behavior in this case, other than having opportunity to exhibit the behavior.
- krisoft 1y agoIdk if the "herding behaviour" is a useful way to think of this. Imagine that we didn't speak the same language, you went for a swim in the ocean and I would go after you and dragged you back to shore while shouting (in my own language) "Oh my, that is so dangerous. Do you even know how many people drown like that? Stop this lunacy at once". Would you describe my behaviour as "herding"? Would you talk about generations, and dominant genes? Or would you just say "this person has some fear for my safety (well grounded or baseless) and seems to care enough about me to save me from the danger he perceives, while I can't convince him that it is fine because we don't speak the same language."
- kid64 1y agoThis analogy might work in a universe where dogs speak foreign languages in which they learn about concepts like danger, persuasion, and language itself. Sounds fun.
- krisoft 1y ago> in which they learn about concepts like danger, persuasion, and language itself. Dogs definitely know about the concept of "danger". Roaring fire, a raised stick, or loud noises. These are all things which doesn't cause immediate pain but they react to avoid them. It seems from the story Lenny includes in the things he want to avoid the ocean while Arthur doesn't. That sounds more like an individual difference than a genetic predisposition. You don't need to speak a foreign language to have this concept. I don't know what is your definition of "persuasion". If it involves the behaviour of standing in someone's way and bothering them until they turn back then we can agree that Lenny seems to have the concept despite not having a language. We had an Old English Sheepdog called Bob who let kids climb trees but only up to a certain height. If you went higher Bob grabbed your ankle and gently pulled you back to the height he previously "let you". Otherwise you could do whatever you wanted to do on the tree and he didn't care. Otherwise never herded anyone ever. My point is not the language. More that if a chinese coast guard would drag you out of the sea you wouldn't be saying "yeah the chinese have a strong herding reflex". You would say "this person doesn't want me to swim", or "this person thinks I'm in danger and I can't communicate that I'm not".
- qweiopqweiop 1y agoLovely article. Worth mentioning that Labradors are descended from now extinct water dogs in Canada, but are technically British and were originally gun dogs. Of course they're incredible pets too.
- arethuza 1y agoHere in Scotland, I regularly meet a local gamekeeper who takes his 6 or 7 Labradors out for a walk - working dogs and extremely well behaved (unlike my unruly Samoyed!).
- 6LLvveMx2koXfwn 1y agoI still miss our black lab, Shambles, died at 13 of cancer during Christmas lockdown in 2020. He also shepherded me back to dry land when we swam together - which was probably sensible as I'm a terrible swimmer.
- franktankbank 1y agoGood boy Shambles.
- nozzlegear 1y agoSorry to hear about Shambles. We have a black lab named Mars who just turned 8 and it's bittersweet watching him age. He's such a great dog, I'd never had a lab before him but he's made me fall in love with the breed.
- franktankbank 1y agoI'm up and down this thread because I love labs. I want to comment that the lab breed is potent. All the things you love about them can be found in a mix too. We've got an almost 10 year old mix, hes a sneaky fucker but we love him dearly.
- MrJagil 1y agoMy dad would go fishing on the beach with his formula 1 labrador. While my dad was in the water fishing, the dog would swim around him in circles. It could swim for an hour without break. It was very cute and impressive, but of course it would also scare the fish away. The dog would also be quite curious about the seals, but I've never seen them play like in the article. A lovely dog, but they have an uncontrollable appetite which can be pretty annoying.
- 05 1y agoLabs are so obscenely food motivated it's a mystery why the owner couldn't train Lenny to just follow them for a few bits of kibble. It's not like they're shepherds in the first place, so herding drive can't be that strong (unless it's a mix).
- JSR_FDED 1y agoThere’s two strains of Labrador, often called the British and the American. Then British are the traditional goofy food-obsessed family dogs. The American are more working dogs - much more energetic than their British counterparts and less motivated by food than the opportunity to catch a ball.
- franktankbank 1y agoI don't really know what you mean, American labs don't have any sort of genetics that tells them to stop eating. If they were in a room filled with food they would eat it all, only taking breaks to sleep. I have a lab mix and he shamelessly steals food from our young kids and off the kitchen counter as we eat in the very visible room next to it. He's eaten whole loaves of bread (multiple times), an entire pound of deep fried egg rolls, trays of cookies on and on and on. He's a good boy though.
- lordnacho 1y agoI have labs, and they seem to have perfected the art of begging. Not too pushy (no barking), not too subtle. Just you know, when you're eating or moving towards food, it somehow crosses your mind that maybe the dog should have something. Always happy to do the one trick that gets them food, which is sitting on their hind legs. I can see how this evolved. You sit near the humans, don't act aggressive, they give you food. You make puppies that follow the same plan. You give up the dead end profession of providing security. The parcel guy might also give you food, you never know! What I don't get is how their other instinct evolved: "I must bring this tennis ball to master, and master must fulfill the social contract of launching it" Sure, I can see how hunting for stuff makes you want to run over to something and pick it up. But what about the "throw the item 40m so I can run after it?" Why would that have a purpose? Why is the appetite for doing this insatiable, to the point where you are advised not to do it with small puppies who might hurt their hip development? Is it all just an extension of the juvenile stage, where play is important? Labs have also become the dominant breed of dog through exceptional salesmanship. I bred my lab, and she had eight puppies. We advertised them, and not a single one of the families that came to see one decided against it. The mom would bring a puppy to the family, and as soon as they were holding a puppy, you could tell by the look in their eyes that they were sold. It's like she was saying "Hey, you look like nice people, buy my kid! He'll love you forever". The puppies at that stage are already able to look deep in your eyes, and can already do the "oh hey, that's some interesting food you got there" look, and they already love a belly rub.
- 05 1y ago> But what about the "throw the item 40m so I can run after it?" Why would that have a purpose? Why is the appetite for doing this insatiable, to the point where you are advised not to do it with small puppies who might hurt their hip development? A combination of chase instinct (when going forward) and resource guarding (when grabbing it and running back). Note that some dogs would do that, but skip the part where they return the toy back to the owner and just spend some quality one on one time with their prey.
- pixxel 1y ago[dead]
- antonvs 1y agoThe second paragraph begins with, “Though not a dog lover,” but then the author proceeds to write an entire article about dogs which culminates with a story about how he goes swimming in the sea with his dog. I suppose it’s a story about how Labradors convinced him to become a dog lover.
- VagabundoP 1y agoCan confirm that dogs in water will scrab you with their claws. Lovely piece and comforting to read. And having swam in the Irish sea with dogs brought me back memory of being freezing wet, with dog scrapes and the smell of them after. I'd manually roll mine on the dry sand to try dry them, or on the walk back through the spiky beach grass you'd have wet dog body press against your leg as you're moving too slowly silly human, but their fur was just too sopping wet for it to work.
- leoh 1y agoSuch a personal and humble kind of writing that is so rare these days. Beautiful.