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To quote the article: >> But also… why do you care? Why would someone using a really cool tool that makes them more productive… feel compelled to sneer and g

To quote the article: >> But also… why do you care? Why would someone using a really cool tool that makes them more productive… feel compelled to sneer and get defensive at the mere suggestion that someone else isn’t doing the same? >> It feels like the same attitude that happened with Bitcoin, the same smug nose-wrinkling contempt. Bitcoin is the future. It’ll replace the dollar by 2020. You’re gonna be left behind. Enjoy being poor. Sure thing, Disco Stu!

yieldcrv 1y ago
Evangelists can be ignored if you want, not all promoted use cases are relevant Its all about blockspace and the commodity that pays for the blockspace That was true when bitcoin was 2 cents and its true when bitcoin is $109,000 and 2 cents I mean, are you enjoying your socioeconomic status? the chronology was very clear to some and they were right. It wasn’t luck, it wasn’t a really binary proposition. you can read old threads around the net from 2012 to see exactly where we are going. you can help make that happen or passively act surprised. pretty much every theorized issue can be programmed away, thats what gives people confidence in this asset class compared to others.
- greyface- 1y ago
  > Its all about blockspace > That was true when bitcoin was 2 cents I largely agree with you, but to nitpick: when bitcoin was 2 cents, blockspace was free, and miners regularly accepted zero-fee transactions into blocks. Today, you're not getting a transaction into a block without paying at least a couple hundred sats. Your statement is true today, but it wasn't like this until April-May 2012 when Satoshi Dice started filling blocks up. See Fig 3 on page 9 of <https://maltemoeser.de/paper/transaction-fees.pdf https://maltemoeser.de/paper/transaction-fees.pdf> or look through some early blocks.
  - yieldcrv 1y ago
    yes, blocks are and were periodically empty if you expected applications to be deployed that would take up block space when used, and were going to build those applications yourself, then it was still rational in 2012 people were describing smart contracts, joint custody accounts to secure assets better, and many other applications that are commonplace and have their own critique and discussion now its like seeing an island full of resources and realizing that the bridges and ferry routes haven't been built yet. that 1) you can get to that island yourself before everyone else 2) you can also build the bridge and put up a toll booth 3) other bridges will be built 4) and other people can also come to the island early at great difficulty too the same play is still true on other blockchains, and sometimes back again on bitcoin I’ve done the trade many times over the past 15 years
    - greyface- 1y ago
      Today, when blocks are empty, you're paying 1 sat/vB. Back then, when blocks were empty, you paid zero. That's the difference between "all about blockspace" and "only about blockspace when you care about next-block latency". Here's a 2010 Satoshi post in a thread about transaction fees stating "we should always allow at least some free transactions": https://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/posts/bitcointalk/threads/213/#5 https://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/posts/bitcointalk/thre... If you had said "2 dollars" instead of "2 cents", we would be in complete agreement. All I'm saying is that mandatory transaction fees were not baked in at 2 cents.
      - yieldcrv 1y ago
        and all I’m saying is that it didn’t matter for a bullish thesis whether this is just a nitpick fyi or a nuance you really care about the only thing that mattered was the malleability of the system to meet its goal of attracting transactions, including the future malleability of what you are pointing out. blockspace became scarce. it was predictable that anything that undermined that would be excised out of the network.

yieldcrv 1y ago

Evangelists can be ignored if you want, not all promoted use cases are relevant Its all about blockspace and the commodity that pays for the blockspace That was true when bitcoin was 2 cents and its true when bitcoin is $109,000 and 2 cents I mean, are you enjoying your socioeconomic status? the chronology was very clear to some and they were right. It wasn’t luck, it wasn’t a really binary proposition. you can read old threads around the net from 2012 to see exactly where we are going. you can help make that happen or passively act surprised. pretty much every theorized issue can be programmed away, thats what gives people confidence in this asset class compared to others.

greyface- 1y ago
> Its all about blockspace > That was true when bitcoin was 2 cents I largely agree with you, but to nitpick: when bitcoin was 2 cents, blockspace was free, and miners regularly accepted zero-fee transactions into blocks. Today, you're not getting a transaction into a block without paying at least a couple hundred sats. Your statement is true today, but it wasn't like this until April-May 2012 when Satoshi Dice started filling blocks up. See Fig 3 on page 9 of <https://maltemoeser.de/paper/transaction-fees.pdf https://maltemoeser.de/paper/transaction-fees.pdf> or look through some early blocks.
- yieldcrv 1y ago
  yes, blocks are and were periodically empty if you expected applications to be deployed that would take up block space when used, and were going to build those applications yourself, then it was still rational in 2012 people were describing smart contracts, joint custody accounts to secure assets better, and many other applications that are commonplace and have their own critique and discussion now its like seeing an island full of resources and realizing that the bridges and ferry routes haven't been built yet. that 1) you can get to that island yourself before everyone else 2) you can also build the bridge and put up a toll booth 3) other bridges will be built 4) and other people can also come to the island early at great difficulty too the same play is still true on other blockchains, and sometimes back again on bitcoin I’ve done the trade many times over the past 15 years
  - greyface- 1y ago
    Today, when blocks are empty, you're paying 1 sat/vB. Back then, when blocks were empty, you paid zero. That's the difference between "all about blockspace" and "only about blockspace when you care about next-block latency". Here's a 2010 Satoshi post in a thread about transaction fees stating "we should always allow at least some free transactions": https://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/posts/bitcointalk/threads/213/#5 https://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/posts/bitcointalk/thre... If you had said "2 dollars" instead of "2 cents", we would be in complete agreement. All I'm saying is that mandatory transaction fees were not baked in at 2 cents.
    - yieldcrv 1y ago
      and all I’m saying is that it didn’t matter for a bullish thesis whether this is just a nitpick fyi or a nuance you really care about the only thing that mattered was the malleability of the system to meet its goal of attracting transactions, including the future malleability of what you are pointing out. blockspace became scarce. it was predictable that anything that undermined that would be excised out of the network.