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I think there's a decent chance that folks on the fringes find interesting uses for immutable and programmable distributed ledgers, even if the prevailing cultu

I think there's a decent chance that folks on the fringes find interesting uses for immutable and programmable distributed ledgers, even if the prevailing culture of crypto is hellish.

Analemma_ 1y ago
I keep hearing this theory, that “eventually” we will find the use cases for distributed ledgers, and I don’t buy it. Bitcoin was invented at roughly the same time as the iPhone, and the iPhone immediately found use cases. Right away the global economy reoriented itself around the smartphone, because it demonstrated real value to actual people. We did not need to wait and twiddle our fingers for years going “I think there’s a decent chance people find interesting uses for this someday”. Immutable distributed ledgers, by contrast, have found no use cases other than crime and financial speculation in coming up on twenty years. Exactly how long do we have to wait for these interesting uses that are “surely” coming?
- mumbisChungo 1y ago
  You make it sounds like it's a struggle between two sides. It's just another option for a creative person who has a problem to solve. Maybe it'll be used for something interesting. Maybe it won't be. It's just a piece of maybe frivolous optional technology.
- yieldcrv 1y ago
  there are many people with many use cases for distributed ledgers. we are already aware of the flowchart of your argument path “list them” “oh I can do that in this other convoluted way that doesnt solve any of these users goals or problems” “I’m not the target audience for that so it doesnt count” “ah so financial speculation, that doesnt count despite being the largest application and sector on the planet” “marketcap doesnt matter and isnt indicative of anything in that economy, I would rather hold digital assets at a separate different standard than every other asset on the planet out of total ignorance that my same arguments apply to asset classes that I respect” “see I proved my point for myself, there is no use case after 17 years, classic HN” “those are strawman arguments despite all conversations following this same predictable path enough for any language model to regurgitate it verbatim”
  - pjc50 1y ago
    It's clear that financial speculation is a big use for crypto, probably the biggest. But since almost all the tokens bear neither interest nor dividends, it looks a lot more like a casino.
    - yieldcrv 1y ago
      if you made every incorporated and unincorporated organization and product line and revenue stream to be fractionalized and publicly traded it would look the same its just a filtering problem there are screeners to narrow everything down just like for the stock exchanges
      - georgeecollins 1y ago
        To quote the article: >> But also… why do you care? Why would someone using a really cool tool that makes them more productive… feel compelled to sneer and get defensive at the mere suggestion that someone else isn’t doing the same? >> It feels like the same attitude that happened with Bitcoin, the same smug nose-wrinkling contempt. Bitcoin is the future. It’ll replace the dollar by 2020. You’re gonna be left behind. Enjoy being poor. Sure thing, Disco Stu!
        yieldcrv 1y ago
        Evangelists can be ignored if you want, not all promoted use cases are relevant Its all about blockspace and the commodity that pays for the blockspace That was true when bitcoin was 2 cents and its true when bitcoin is $109,000 and 2 cents I mean, are you enjoying your socioeconomic status? the chronology was very clear to some and they were right. It wasn’t luck, it wasn’t a really binary proposition. you can read old threads around the net from 2012 to see exactly where we are going. you can help make that happen or passively act surprised. pretty much every theorized issue can be programmed away, thats what gives people confidence in this asset class compared to others.
        1y ago
- m0wer 1y ago
  Isn't being able of anonymously send you something of value that no one can take away from you a pretty big use case? A third of the world is unbanked. A permissionless monetary system makes a huge difference for those. When I was still very skeptical about Bitcoin, I met a guy in Turkey who was from a very poor African country and was just studying there. His father would buy Bitcoin in their home country with the local currency (P2P) and send it to his son, that would then convert it also P2P for Turkish Liras. They could do this securely an within minutes. The alternative was using Western Union and paying taxes in both countries, which in total added up to ~50% of the sent amount. It's great not needing Bitcoin, as it is great not needing Tor. But that doesn't mean there's no use case for them.

I think there's a decent chance that folks on the fringes find interesting uses for immutable and programmable distributed ledgers, even if the prevailing culture of crypto is hellish.

Analemma_ 1y ago

I keep hearing this theory, that “eventually” we will find the use cases for distributed ledgers, and I don’t buy it. Bitcoin was invented at roughly the same time as the iPhone, and the iPhone immediately found use cases. Right away the global economy reoriented itself around the smartphone, because it demonstrated real value to actual people. We did not need to wait and twiddle our fingers for years going “I think there’s a decent chance people find interesting uses for this someday”. Immutable distributed ledgers, by contrast, have found no use cases other than crime and financial speculation in coming up on twenty years. Exactly how long do we have to wait for these interesting uses that are “surely” coming?

mumbisChungo 1y ago
You make it sounds like it's a struggle between two sides. It's just another option for a creative person who has a problem to solve. Maybe it'll be used for something interesting. Maybe it won't be. It's just a piece of maybe frivolous optional technology.
yieldcrv 1y ago
there are many people with many use cases for distributed ledgers. we are already aware of the flowchart of your argument path “list them” “oh I can do that in this other convoluted way that doesnt solve any of these users goals or problems” “I’m not the target audience for that so it doesnt count” “ah so financial speculation, that doesnt count despite being the largest application and sector on the planet” “marketcap doesnt matter and isnt indicative of anything in that economy, I would rather hold digital assets at a separate different standard than every other asset on the planet out of total ignorance that my same arguments apply to asset classes that I respect” “see I proved my point for myself, there is no use case after 17 years, classic HN” “those are strawman arguments despite all conversations following this same predictable path enough for any language model to regurgitate it verbatim”
- pjc50 1y ago
  It's clear that financial speculation is a big use for crypto, probably the biggest. But since almost all the tokens bear neither interest nor dividends, it looks a lot more like a casino.
  - yieldcrv 1y ago
    if you made every incorporated and unincorporated organization and product line and revenue stream to be fractionalized and publicly traded it would look the same its just a filtering problem there are screeners to narrow everything down just like for the stock exchanges
    - georgeecollins 1y ago
      To quote the article: >> But also… why do you care? Why would someone using a really cool tool that makes them more productive… feel compelled to sneer and get defensive at the mere suggestion that someone else isn’t doing the same? >> It feels like the same attitude that happened with Bitcoin, the same smug nose-wrinkling contempt. Bitcoin is the future. It’ll replace the dollar by 2020. You’re gonna be left behind. Enjoy being poor. Sure thing, Disco Stu!
      - yieldcrv 1y ago
        Evangelists can be ignored if you want, not all promoted use cases are relevant Its all about blockspace and the commodity that pays for the blockspace That was true when bitcoin was 2 cents and its true when bitcoin is $109,000 and 2 cents I mean, are you enjoying your socioeconomic status? the chronology was very clear to some and they were right. It wasn’t luck, it wasn’t a really binary proposition. you can read old threads around the net from 2012 to see exactly where we are going. you can help make that happen or passively act surprised. pretty much every theorized issue can be programmed away, thats what gives people confidence in this asset class compared to others.
        1y ago
m0wer 1y ago
Isn't being able of anonymously send you something of value that no one can take away from you a pretty big use case? A third of the world is unbanked. A permissionless monetary system makes a huge difference for those. When I was still very skeptical about Bitcoin, I met a guy in Turkey who was from a very poor African country and was just studying there. His father would buy Bitcoin in their home country with the local currency (P2P) and send it to his son, that would then convert it also P2P for Turkish Liras. They could do this securely an within minutes. The alternative was using Western Union and paying taxes in both countries, which in total added up to ~50% of the sent amount. It's great not needing Bitcoin, as it is great not needing Tor. But that doesn't mean there's no use case for them.