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> Experienced engineers can write good code in anything and inexperienced engineers can write bad code in anything. I don't have strong opinions about this par

> Experienced engineers can write good code in anything and inexperienced engineers can write bad code in anything. I don't have strong opinions about this particular React/HTMX example, but I don't love this statement because it seems to be dismissing the possibility that some tools are better than other tools for a particular job.

Swizec 1y ago
> it seems to be dismissing the possibility that some tools are better than other tools for a particular job I think these are 2 dimensions. Great engineer + right tool is obviously the best combination. Great engineer + wrong tool can work surprisingly well. I have never seen the other 2 combinations produce elegant results. But really what I was trying to say is this: We're just smearing complexity around. UI is hard. The component model won for a reason. Use whatever syntax you prefer, they're all fine, but please use composable components of some sort to build your UI.
- yawaramin 1y ago
  Htmx doesn't preclude a component model for the UI. See: - https://www.fastht.ml/ https://www.fastht.ml/ - https://github.com/yawaramin/dream-html/tree/todoapp/app https://github.com/yawaramin/dream-html/tree/todoapp/app In fact if you look at how htmx is recommended to be used, you realize they specifically are recommending a component-based architecture: https://htmx.org/essays/when-to-use-hypermedia/#if-your-ui-is-nested-with-updates-mostly-taking-place-within-well-defined-blocks https://htmx.org/essays/when-to-use-hypermedia/#if-your-ui-i...
  - Swizec 1y ago
    That is the point I was making: HTMX is just a flavor of the component model.
    - yawaramin 1y ago
      Eh, not really. Htmx is a tool that you can plug in to your system. It doesn't dictate what system or architecture you use. You can have a component model, or you can have old-fashioned string-based HTML templates. Htmx is agnostic to that.
marcosdumay 1y ago
It is exactly dismissing the possibilities some tools are better than others for particular jobs, and it has been a popular phrase for people advocating for bad tools for decades. The previous favorite one used to be "a bad craftsman blames his tools", that people that liked to impose bad tools on others repeated all the time. But that phrase got old.

Swizec 1y ago

> it seems to be dismissing the possibility that some tools are better than other tools for a particular job I think these are 2 dimensions. Great engineer + right tool is obviously the best combination. Great engineer + wrong tool can work surprisingly well. I have never seen the other 2 combinations produce elegant results. But really what I was trying to say is this: We're just smearing complexity around. UI is hard. The component model won for a reason. Use whatever syntax you prefer, they're all fine, but please use composable components of some sort to build your UI.

yawaramin 1y ago
Htmx doesn't preclude a component model for the UI. See: - https://www.fastht.ml/ https://www.fastht.ml/ - https://github.com/yawaramin/dream-html/tree/todoapp/app https://github.com/yawaramin/dream-html/tree/todoapp/app In fact if you look at how htmx is recommended to be used, you realize they specifically are recommending a component-based architecture: https://htmx.org/essays/when-to-use-hypermedia/#if-your-ui-is-nested-with-updates-mostly-taking-place-within-well-defined-blocks https://htmx.org/essays/when-to-use-hypermedia/#if-your-ui-i...
- Swizec 1y ago
  That is the point I was making: HTMX is just a flavor of the component model.
  - yawaramin 1y ago
    Eh, not really. Htmx is a tool that you can plug in to your system. It doesn't dictate what system or architecture you use. You can have a component model, or you can have old-fashioned string-based HTML templates. Htmx is agnostic to that.

marcosdumay 1y ago

It is exactly dismissing the possibilities some tools are better than others for particular jobs, and it has been a popular phrase for people advocating for bad tools for decades. The previous favorite one used to be "a bad craftsman blames his tools", that people that liked to impose bad tools on others repeated all the time. But that phrase got old.