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Unlawful presence on US soil is a civil offense. It's literally the same class of offense as a parking ticket. Are there any other civil offenses that you thin

Unlawful presence on US soil is a civil offense. It's literally the same class of offense as a parking ticket. Are there any other civil offenses that you think should be dealt with using masked police and concentration camps?

Urd- 1y ago
>Unlawful presence on US soil is a civil offense. It's literally the same class of offense as a parking ticket. Overstaying a visa is a civil offense, 'improper entry' e.g. jumping the border is criminal.
- ocschwar 1y ago
  Yes. Jumping the border is a misdemeanor if you don't immediately self report to request asylum. But the majority of people getting rounded up right now are for unlawful presence. And a lot of them have no idea that their presence was marked unlawful until ICE gets them. There's a reason civil offenses are supposed to be handled with proper notification and court summonses instead of this shit.
refurb 1y ago
This is a very disingenuous question for a number of reasons. - Whether unlawful presence is a civil or criminal law, countries should control who enters the country. - Masked police seem like a reasonable response to doxxing of police officers? It’s not like the identity of these police aren’t know to the legal system and lawyers of the accused. - Calling immigration detention “concentration camps” makes no sense. It’s just meaningless rhetoric as detention bears no resemblance to actual concentration camps. - Most importantly, the US enforcing its own immigrations laws does not make it an outlier - it was an outlier when it ignored its own immigration laws. Every other country I’ve visited rather strictly enforces its immigration laws including speedy deportation of any encountered who doesn’t have permission to be in the country. If anything the headlines should be “US joins rest of world in enforcing its own immigration laws”
- ocschwar 1y ago
  > - Whether unlawful presence is a civil or criminal law, countries should control who enters the country. Yes. And it's disingenuous to call for brutal police tactics with enormous collateral damage for something the letter of the law regards as the equivalent of a parking ticket. > - Masked police seem like a reasonable response to doxxing of police officers? Fuck. No. > Calling immigration detention “concentration camps” makes no sense. When they are meant for detaining people who are literally not guilty of any crime, and they are deliberately designed to feature inhumane conditions, it makes every sense. > - - Most importantly, the US enforcing its own immigrations laws does not make it an outlier I'll ask the same question again: which civil offenses do you think should also be addressed with secret police and concentration camps? The EU is stricter with immigration than the US. But it does not use secret police and concentration camps.
  - refurb 1y ago
    You're not really arguing in good faith when your response is "Fuck. No." > The EU is stricter with immigration than the US. But it does not use secret police and concentration camps. You don't think the police in Europe sometimes hide the identity of their police from onlookers when required? I'm pretty sure they do. Do you also think Europe doesn't detain people who are in their country illegally? I'm pretty sure they do. They are even creating "return hubs", which are basically detention centers outside their own country which hold immigrants until they can be returned to their home or a third country.
    - pasc1878 1y ago
      > You don't think the police in Europe sometimes hide the identity of their police from onlookers when required? I'm pretty sure they do. Yes in the UK they do. However this is breaking the law and those who do this have been punished.
    - ocschwar 1y ago
      > You're not really arguing in good faith when your response is "Fuck. No." If you don't already know that keeping the name & badge number visible is the most important part of proper policing, and established as such by the world's first police force and its founder, Robert Peel, there's no point arguing much of anything with you. It's literally the difference between a police force and a Geheime Staat Polizei.

Urd- 1y ago

>Unlawful presence on US soil is a civil offense. It's literally the same class of offense as a parking ticket. Overstaying a visa is a civil offense, 'improper entry' e.g. jumping the border is criminal.

ocschwar 1y ago
Yes. Jumping the border is a misdemeanor if you don't immediately self report to request asylum. But the majority of people getting rounded up right now are for unlawful presence. And a lot of them have no idea that their presence was marked unlawful until ICE gets them. There's a reason civil offenses are supposed to be handled with proper notification and court summonses instead of this shit.

refurb 1y ago

This is a very disingenuous question for a number of reasons. - Whether unlawful presence is a civil or criminal law, countries should control who enters the country. - Masked police seem like a reasonable response to doxxing of police officers? It’s not like the identity of these police aren’t know to the legal system and lawyers of the accused. - Calling immigration detention “concentration camps” makes no sense. It’s just meaningless rhetoric as detention bears no resemblance to actual concentration camps. - Most importantly, the US enforcing its own immigrations laws does not make it an outlier - it was an outlier when it ignored its own immigration laws. Every other country I’ve visited rather strictly enforces its immigration laws including speedy deportation of any encountered who doesn’t have permission to be in the country. If anything the headlines should be “US joins rest of world in enforcing its own immigration laws”

ocschwar 1y ago
> - Whether unlawful presence is a civil or criminal law, countries should control who enters the country. Yes. And it's disingenuous to call for brutal police tactics with enormous collateral damage for something the letter of the law regards as the equivalent of a parking ticket. > - Masked police seem like a reasonable response to doxxing of police officers? Fuck. No. > Calling immigration detention “concentration camps” makes no sense. When they are meant for detaining people who are literally not guilty of any crime, and they are deliberately designed to feature inhumane conditions, it makes every sense. > - - Most importantly, the US enforcing its own immigrations laws does not make it an outlier I'll ask the same question again: which civil offenses do you think should also be addressed with secret police and concentration camps? The EU is stricter with immigration than the US. But it does not use secret police and concentration camps.
- refurb 1y ago
  You're not really arguing in good faith when your response is "Fuck. No." > The EU is stricter with immigration than the US. But it does not use secret police and concentration camps. You don't think the police in Europe sometimes hide the identity of their police from onlookers when required? I'm pretty sure they do. Do you also think Europe doesn't detain people who are in their country illegally? I'm pretty sure they do. They are even creating "return hubs", which are basically detention centers outside their own country which hold immigrants until they can be returned to their home or a third country.
  - pasc1878 1y ago
    > You don't think the police in Europe sometimes hide the identity of their police from onlookers when required? I'm pretty sure they do. Yes in the UK they do. However this is breaking the law and those who do this have been punished.
  - ocschwar 1y ago
    > You're not really arguing in good faith when your response is "Fuck. No." If you don't already know that keeping the name & badge number visible is the most important part of proper policing, and established as such by the world's first police force and its founder, Robert Peel, there's no point arguing much of anything with you. It's literally the difference between a police force and a Geheime Staat Polizei.