5 ms·

I've gone from small places to large places and back, and I can see the appeal of both. One thing that's nice about a bigger house is that you can have special

I've gone from small places to large places and back, and I can see the appeal of both. One thing that's nice about a bigger house is that you can have special purpose rooms. If you have only a living room but would love to have a pool table, you're either out of luck or need to convince whoever you're living with (sometimes yourself!) that it's ok to stick a pool table in the middle of the living room. Or you have to compromise and get one of those "pool table slash foosball table slash pingpong table" things that are pretty much worthless. Another example is home theatre. It's true that you can just put a big tv and surround sound in your living room, but that more often than not screws up the decor and larger purpose of the living room as a family gathering spot. When you have a dedicated room, you can go nuts with the stadium seating and all of that. That said, I've downsized in the past two years from a two story four bedroom house with a yard to a one bedroom apartment. I'm now preparing to spend the next several months in an RV. I'm actually much, much happier with this arrangement. For some, space is a true necessity (large families that wish to keep their sanity). For others, space is a luxury that they can afford and that truly makes them happy. For people like myself, though, I've found that I only wanted what I thought space could get me... "breathing room". Turns out I needed psychological and intellectual breathing room more than I need more physical space. Perhaps that will change as I get older, but right now I'm glad I learned that I can be happier in far less space. The freedom, flexibility, and lower financial burdens this affords are well worth the cost of having to move a table every now and then.

farnsworth 14y ago
It might be a slight digression from the OP, but I would be interested if you cared to expand on how you found psychological and intellectual breathing room.
- breckinloggins 14y ago
  Sure. A lot of it was determining what made me happy versus what made other people happy. Other people may want you to live life a certain way, and it's easy to convince yourself that they must be right. A large part of it was simply allowing myself to be into topics and things and ways of living that other people just don't understand. Take hacking for instance. Most hard core programmers simply love fiddling with computers and making them do cool stuff. You might have a personal project to write your own OS or C compiler. Now lets say you hang around some other programmers who are very good at their jobs, but in the end it's just that: a job. They might say "sounds interesting but why are you wasting your time on that? You program all day for work, I don't understand why you go home and do it again for something that will never make you any money. You really ought to have a more balanced life. Hey, come hang out with us and have some beers and watch the game." And so you do, which is great and it is nice to get out once in a while and do normal social things. But what happens if you let your well-intentioned friends convince you that these hobby projects really aren't worthy of your time? In the beginning you might buy into it. But over time as you start to accomodate more and more to the life other people envision for you, you start to feel a growing emptiness inside. A lot of people fill that emptiness with quick fixes. Things like houses and expensive "stuff" were the big thing for me (and cigarettes, but no more thank goodness). Eventually (hopefully) you figure out that the only person who really has to live with yourself every day is YOU. So barring doing something completely selfish that destroys the people who depend on you, it's best to live the life the way you naturally desire to live it. I'm not making a hedonistic argument here, just saying that if you really want nothing more than to go home at the end of a hard day and fiddle with x86 TSS structures to get your homegrown OS to boot, it's not really anyone else's business. It's also not your problem if they don't like it, think it's too geeky, or think you should be doing something with your personal time other than "fooling around with computers". So a big part of my psychological and intellectual breathing room was giving myself permission to be who I am. Not everyone is going to understand my decision to pack up my crap in an RV and travel around the country for who knows how long. In the past I might have said "maybe they're right, this is a little crazy, why can't I just settle down?" But now I give myself permission to say "I'm doing this; I hope you'll support me. If you don't, I understand, but I'm doing this anyway." In a lot of ways, my conception of breathing room mirrors that of the Gestalt prayer, something I learned about only today: "I do my thing and you do your thing. I am not in this world to live up to your expectations, And you are not in this world to live up to mine. You are you, and I am I, and if by chance we find each other, it's beautiful. If not, it can't be helped." (Fritz Perls, "Gestalt Therapy Verbatim", 1969)
  - ChuckMcM 14y ago
    Wow, I wish I could vote this up by 10. It is so important to be ok with who you are, even if those around you think that who you are isn't for them. I completely understand how lonely that can make people sometimes but the key is sharing your passions. Your passions define you as a person, and sharing them will let other people in your 'tribe' recognize you. I was at a cocktail party at Usenix in the 80's where another person at our table started talking about geology, they where hugely into it and loved being in California (normally lived in the midwest) because they could look at volcanoes up close, they had stayed over the weekend so they could camp at Mt. Lassen State Park. Another person at the table lit up and was totally going toe to toe, mineral for mineral with this person. It was amazing. But the most amazing thing was that this other person didn't know any 'rockhounds' because they never brought it up.
  - theorique 14y ago
    Excellent response. And extra props for the Fritz Perls quote. It represents the best way for adults to relate to each other in the world.
  - TimGebhardt 14y ago
    Related to this: It drives me up a wall when someone responds to something someone else did with "Wow someone has too much time on their hands." And just what were you doing that was so important that you hardly had enough time to put that person down? Or are you just jealous?
derekp7 14y ago
The problem is that a lot of larger houses simply have larger rooms. For example, I have a the living room and dining room sharing a large rectangular space with a vaulted ceiling. Then, there is another rectangle which has the kitchen at one end, and a family room at the other (separated by a tile / carpet boundary, and a partial knee wall). So in effect I only have two rooms on the main floor. And the upper story has 3 bedrooms (two normal size, and a large master bedroom). But the master bedroom has too much wall space covered with windows, or interior doors, so there isn't much space to put furniture (but you have a lot of floor space in between). The only area that was actually any use (for things like a lounge, office, etc) is the basement (a large open space that I split up with walls). All in all, I'd rather have less total square footage of floor space, and more wall space.
- seanmcdirmid 14y ago
  You know, these trends are like a rollercoaster. Wallspace used to be preferred over open spaces, then people started clamoring for open spaces (call it "loft envy"), walls got torn down in old houses, new houses got built without walls. If you wait, the trend for more rooms/walls will probably come back again, though I personally prefer the large inside open spaces.
pkteison 14y ago
People have had large families without much space for centuries. It clearly isn't a necessity.
- crusso 14y ago
  Having a large family isn't a necessity either, I guess. Who gets to decide such things in a free society?
- briandear 14y ago
  > It clearly isn't a necessity Right. That's what freedom means. The freedom to buy whatever house you want. I don't want people deciding what my "necessities" are. That's the problem, too many people think they know what's best for everyone else. The Soviets apparently knew what was "best" for their people and their crappy products, terrible farming yields and dismal failing economic system was the result, not to mention widespread poverty (as well as famine in 1930-1932.) A house in general isn't a necessity. A lean-to in the woods could work. So could a tent. People can tell me what they heck I'm allowed to buy, do or how I should live as soon as they give me the right to start evaluating everything they're doing. If people want to build bigger homes, that's their right -- they are paying for them. Just like if I want to drive 100,000 miles per year in a Hummer -- that's my right. Bigger houses are valued higher so the residents pay more taxes which pays for more "stuff" that I often feel is clearly not a "necessity." If I drive 100,000 miles per year, I'm paying gasoline taxes (and tolls) which ostensibly fund roads and bridges as well as other infrastructure. I personally prefer a higher quality house and am willing to pay more per square foot to get it. If that means I have a smaller house, that's fine with me, but if people value size over quality, that's their right as well. In a free market, no one is forced to buy anything (except for health insurance, of course,) but those large suburban homes.. if that's what people want, who cares? I don't tell people what women or men they should make babies with, so why should people be able to tell us what homes to buy? Although I would argue that bad human breeding choices causes more societal damage than a house with 500 extra square feet, but once again, it's about freedom. Many people have forgotten what freedom means. It embarrassing to call myself an American when a good portion of Americans feel like it's their duty to tell everyone else how they should live their life to fit with some normative idea held by this group or that. I guarantee that every single one of us has something in our lifestyle that could be considered "bad" by someone. Who gets to decide what's bad? As long as your life choices don't deprive others of life, liberty or property, then do whatever the fuck you want. Don't try to make the lame argument that bigger houses consume more resources and it causes you die sooner. Those people pay for the resources consumed and people have jobs because of those resources consumed. And, as those resources become more scarce, the prices will rise, thus leading to a reduction of consumption of those resources. The economy is generally a self-regulating system (at least when we stop trying to manipulate it for political ends.) If someone wants to live in a Manhattan closet and someone else wants to live in a Queens "McMansion," what right is it of ours to say otherwise? For those complaining about "too big" then ask yourself, do you really "need" a 27 inch monitor? An 11 inch MacBook Air is good enough for 37signals, why should you need anything bigger? It isn't a necessity right? A computer isn't really a necessity when you get down to it. Society hummed along just fine before we had computers in every (smaller) home. /end rant

farnsworth 14y ago

It might be a slight digression from the OP, but I would be interested if you cared to expand on how you found psychological and intellectual breathing room.

breckinloggins 14y ago
Sure. A lot of it was determining what made me happy versus what made other people happy. Other people may want you to live life a certain way, and it's easy to convince yourself that they must be right. A large part of it was simply allowing myself to be into topics and things and ways of living that other people just don't understand. Take hacking for instance. Most hard core programmers simply love fiddling with computers and making them do cool stuff. You might have a personal project to write your own OS or C compiler. Now lets say you hang around some other programmers who are very good at their jobs, but in the end it's just that: a job. They might say "sounds interesting but why are you wasting your time on that? You program all day for work, I don't understand why you go home and do it again for something that will never make you any money. You really ought to have a more balanced life. Hey, come hang out with us and have some beers and watch the game." And so you do, which is great and it is nice to get out once in a while and do normal social things. But what happens if you let your well-intentioned friends convince you that these hobby projects really aren't worthy of your time? In the beginning you might buy into it. But over time as you start to accomodate more and more to the life other people envision for you, you start to feel a growing emptiness inside. A lot of people fill that emptiness with quick fixes. Things like houses and expensive "stuff" were the big thing for me (and cigarettes, but no more thank goodness). Eventually (hopefully) you figure out that the only person who really has to live with yourself every day is YOU. So barring doing something completely selfish that destroys the people who depend on you, it's best to live the life the way you naturally desire to live it. I'm not making a hedonistic argument here, just saying that if you really want nothing more than to go home at the end of a hard day and fiddle with x86 TSS structures to get your homegrown OS to boot, it's not really anyone else's business. It's also not your problem if they don't like it, think it's too geeky, or think you should be doing something with your personal time other than "fooling around with computers". So a big part of my psychological and intellectual breathing room was giving myself permission to be who I am. Not everyone is going to understand my decision to pack up my crap in an RV and travel around the country for who knows how long. In the past I might have said "maybe they're right, this is a little crazy, why can't I just settle down?" But now I give myself permission to say "I'm doing this; I hope you'll support me. If you don't, I understand, but I'm doing this anyway." In a lot of ways, my conception of breathing room mirrors that of the Gestalt prayer, something I learned about only today: "I do my thing and you do your thing. I am not in this world to live up to your expectations, And you are not in this world to live up to mine. You are you, and I am I, and if by chance we find each other, it's beautiful. If not, it can't be helped." (Fritz Perls, "Gestalt Therapy Verbatim", 1969)
- ChuckMcM 14y ago
  Wow, I wish I could vote this up by 10. It is so important to be ok with who you are, even if those around you think that who you are isn't for them. I completely understand how lonely that can make people sometimes but the key is sharing your passions. Your passions define you as a person, and sharing them will let other people in your 'tribe' recognize you. I was at a cocktail party at Usenix in the 80's where another person at our table started talking about geology, they where hugely into it and loved being in California (normally lived in the midwest) because they could look at volcanoes up close, they had stayed over the weekend so they could camp at Mt. Lassen State Park. Another person at the table lit up and was totally going toe to toe, mineral for mineral with this person. It was amazing. But the most amazing thing was that this other person didn't know any 'rockhounds' because they never brought it up.
- theorique 14y ago
  Excellent response. And extra props for the Fritz Perls quote. It represents the best way for adults to relate to each other in the world.
- TimGebhardt 14y ago
  Related to this: It drives me up a wall when someone responds to something someone else did with "Wow someone has too much time on their hands." And just what were you doing that was so important that you hardly had enough time to put that person down? Or are you just jealous?

derekp7 14y ago

The problem is that a lot of larger houses simply have larger rooms. For example, I have a the living room and dining room sharing a large rectangular space with a vaulted ceiling. Then, there is another rectangle which has the kitchen at one end, and a family room at the other (separated by a tile / carpet boundary, and a partial knee wall). So in effect I only have two rooms on the main floor. And the upper story has 3 bedrooms (two normal size, and a large master bedroom). But the master bedroom has too much wall space covered with windows, or interior doors, so there isn't much space to put furniture (but you have a lot of floor space in between). The only area that was actually any use (for things like a lounge, office, etc) is the basement (a large open space that I split up with walls). All in all, I'd rather have less total square footage of floor space, and more wall space.

seanmcdirmid 14y ago
You know, these trends are like a rollercoaster. Wallspace used to be preferred over open spaces, then people started clamoring for open spaces (call it "loft envy"), walls got torn down in old houses, new houses got built without walls. If you wait, the trend for more rooms/walls will probably come back again, though I personally prefer the large inside open spaces.

pkteison 14y ago

People have had large families without much space for centuries. It clearly isn't a necessity.

crusso 14y ago
Having a large family isn't a necessity either, I guess. Who gets to decide such things in a free society?
briandear 14y ago
> It clearly isn't a necessity Right. That's what freedom means. The freedom to buy whatever house you want. I don't want people deciding what my "necessities" are. That's the problem, too many people think they know what's best for everyone else. The Soviets apparently knew what was "best" for their people and their crappy products, terrible farming yields and dismal failing economic system was the result, not to mention widespread poverty (as well as famine in 1930-1932.) A house in general isn't a necessity. A lean-to in the woods could work. So could a tent. People can tell me what they heck I'm allowed to buy, do or how I should live as soon as they give me the right to start evaluating everything they're doing. If people want to build bigger homes, that's their right -- they are paying for them. Just like if I want to drive 100,000 miles per year in a Hummer -- that's my right. Bigger houses are valued higher so the residents pay more taxes which pays for more "stuff" that I often feel is clearly not a "necessity." If I drive 100,000 miles per year, I'm paying gasoline taxes (and tolls) which ostensibly fund roads and bridges as well as other infrastructure. I personally prefer a higher quality house and am willing to pay more per square foot to get it. If that means I have a smaller house, that's fine with me, but if people value size over quality, that's their right as well. In a free market, no one is forced to buy anything (except for health insurance, of course,) but those large suburban homes.. if that's what people want, who cares? I don't tell people what women or men they should make babies with, so why should people be able to tell us what homes to buy? Although I would argue that bad human breeding choices causes more societal damage than a house with 500 extra square feet, but once again, it's about freedom. Many people have forgotten what freedom means. It embarrassing to call myself an American when a good portion of Americans feel like it's their duty to tell everyone else how they should live their life to fit with some normative idea held by this group or that. I guarantee that every single one of us has something in our lifestyle that could be considered "bad" by someone. Who gets to decide what's bad? As long as your life choices don't deprive others of life, liberty or property, then do whatever the fuck you want. Don't try to make the lame argument that bigger houses consume more resources and it causes you die sooner. Those people pay for the resources consumed and people have jobs because of those resources consumed. And, as those resources become more scarce, the prices will rise, thus leading to a reduction of consumption of those resources. The economy is generally a self-regulating system (at least when we stop trying to manipulate it for political ends.) If someone wants to live in a Manhattan closet and someone else wants to live in a Queens "McMansion," what right is it of ours to say otherwise? For those complaining about "too big" then ask yourself, do you really "need" a 27 inch monitor? An 11 inch MacBook Air is good enough for 37signals, why should you need anything bigger? It isn't a necessity right? A computer isn't really a necessity when you get down to it. Society hummed along just fine before we had computers in every (smaller) home. /end rant