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I think this will be a veeeery unpopular opinion on this site. But I think the simple reality is this is the natural end state of unchecked capitalism. The ent

I think this will be a veeeery unpopular opinion on this site. But I think the simple reality is this is the natural end state of unchecked capitalism. The entire model the US has been on since Reagan has been a rapid, uncontrollable concentration of wealth into the hands of fewer and fewer. The reality of that is of course, wealth translates (roughly) to power On the reverse, in an authoritarian state you need to concentrate power in the hands of as absolutely few as possible. The loyal ones who keep the empire running Of course you also need to convince the working class to "play along" with your game as you fleece the blind. So you enter the role of the fourth estate, particularly after Nixon. You just have to convince enough percentage of the population that you're "fighting for them" So you create enemies. "The Gays" "The Trans" "The Browns" and all other cornucopia of manufactured enemies. Anything to divide and conquer and prevent the proles from rising up and obliterating your empire

JumpCrisscross 1y ago
Decent hypothesis, but fails when we compare America to other capitalist countries. (Or non-capitalist countries, extant and historically, with extreme wealth inequality.) This has nothing to do with capitalism and everything to do with Bush’s decision to invade Iraq. The police state we built internally, lack of trust we engendered externally, economic straitjacket trillions of useless spending caused to our livelihoods and then resulting collapse of the party of Reagan into the vindictive mess it is today, all of these trace from the Iraq War.
- cma 1y ago
  Under the first Bush and continued under Clinton, Haitian asylum seekers were interdicted at sea and sent to Guantanamo to avoid due process, which set the stage for its use in the war on terror. However, in these earlier uses it was for additional processing to give a chance at asylum for those claiming persecution and others not seeking it were deported back to Haiti directly. But it was still used to avoid full due process. Under treaties that are supposed to be law of the land under the constitution, we are supposed to accept legitimate asylum seekers.
- CursedSilicon 1y ago
  >Decent hypothesis, but fails when we compare America to other capitalist countries. (Or non-capitalist countries, extant and historically, with extreme wealth inequality.) What countries other than the US have the sheer extreme wealth inequality the US does? Really the only other comparison is China. Which went from an existing authoritarian state to an authoritarian state using its working class as effective slave labor for western capital. It's "state capitalism"
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > What countries other than the US have the sheer extreme wealth inequality the US does? All of South America, Southern Africa and Southeast Asia [1]. Also every single pre-industrial society. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_inequality https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_...
  - SauciestGNU 1y ago
    Look at historical conditions in apartheid South Africa or pre-revolution France.
sureglymop 1y ago
I was about to remind the person you replied to that we are on hacker news. Judging by the name you'd think it would be a place where hacker ethics are prevalent (which would be most close to libertarianism in the original leftist sense, or anarchism). But of course we know that that's not the case, given how the site came to be and who runs it. Personally I believe that the situation the US is in can largely be attributed to the failures of the democrats. When, due to material conditions, the voting population increasingly becomes accepting of more progressive ideas but instead gets neoliberal pseudo-progressives like Hillary Clinton as possible president, they become disillusioned with their party. If you live in another country, let it be a lesson that neoliberalism can help the convergence to fascism by dismantling the leftist counter balance needed to be in place and try to stop it while you still can.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- orwin 1y ago
  Note that this doesn't need to be neoliberals. Liberals/conservative do the same each time the status quo is at risk (see Spanish civil war). The most famous are Hindenburg and Papen making a deal with Hitler with the help of their midwife Shroder, because they were afraid of the agrarian reform supported by the left and saw the electoral decline of their 'center' and their right (including NSDAP) in the last free elections of 32. Nazi were given the power, they weren't voted into it.
- _DeadFred_ 1y ago
  To the far left, Trump torturing people is because of the center left. The reason this is happening is because people didn't vote to stop it. The far left are more OK with this happening than voting center left, as shown by their continuing to blame the center left for Trump's actions. To the far left, their disillusion is more important than people being tortured. Truly disgusting politics at the expense of people's lives.
  - sureglymop 1y ago
    I'm not American and nor part of the far left. But to me it seems clear that the democrats made just painfully bad choices in the candidates they picked and repeatedly so. People not voting happens to be, although perhaps not understandable to you and me, a consequence of that.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

Decent hypothesis, but fails when we compare America to other capitalist countries. (Or non-capitalist countries, extant and historically, with extreme wealth inequality.) This has nothing to do with capitalism and everything to do with Bush’s decision to invade Iraq. The police state we built internally, lack of trust we engendered externally, economic straitjacket trillions of useless spending caused to our livelihoods and then resulting collapse of the party of Reagan into the vindictive mess it is today, all of these trace from the Iraq War.

cma 1y ago
Under the first Bush and continued under Clinton, Haitian asylum seekers were interdicted at sea and sent to Guantanamo to avoid due process, which set the stage for its use in the war on terror. However, in these earlier uses it was for additional processing to give a chance at asylum for those claiming persecution and others not seeking it were deported back to Haiti directly. But it was still used to avoid full due process. Under treaties that are supposed to be law of the land under the constitution, we are supposed to accept legitimate asylum seekers.
CursedSilicon 1y ago
>Decent hypothesis, but fails when we compare America to other capitalist countries. (Or non-capitalist countries, extant and historically, with extreme wealth inequality.) What countries other than the US have the sheer extreme wealth inequality the US does? Really the only other comparison is China. Which went from an existing authoritarian state to an authoritarian state using its working class as effective slave labor for western capital. It's "state capitalism"
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > What countries other than the US have the sheer extreme wealth inequality the US does? All of South America, Southern Africa and Southeast Asia [1]. Also every single pre-industrial society. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_inequality https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_...
- SauciestGNU 1y ago
  Look at historical conditions in apartheid South Africa or pre-revolution France.

sureglymop 1y ago

I was about to remind the person you replied to that we are on hacker news. Judging by the name you'd think it would be a place where hacker ethics are prevalent (which would be most close to libertarianism in the original leftist sense, or anarchism). But of course we know that that's not the case, given how the site came to be and who runs it. Personally I believe that the situation the US is in can largely be attributed to the failures of the democrats. When, due to material conditions, the voting population increasingly becomes accepting of more progressive ideas but instead gets neoliberal pseudo-progressives like Hillary Clinton as possible president, they become disillusioned with their party. If you live in another country, let it be a lesson that neoliberalism can help the convergence to fascism by dismantling the leftist counter balance needed to be in place and try to stop it while you still can.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
orwin 1y ago
Note that this doesn't need to be neoliberals. Liberals/conservative do the same each time the status quo is at risk (see Spanish civil war). The most famous are Hindenburg and Papen making a deal with Hitler with the help of their midwife Shroder, because they were afraid of the agrarian reform supported by the left and saw the electoral decline of their 'center' and their right (including NSDAP) in the last free elections of 32. Nazi were given the power, they weren't voted into it.
_DeadFred_ 1y ago
To the far left, Trump torturing people is because of the center left. The reason this is happening is because people didn't vote to stop it. The far left are more OK with this happening than voting center left, as shown by their continuing to blame the center left for Trump's actions. To the far left, their disillusion is more important than people being tortured. Truly disgusting politics at the expense of people's lives.
- sureglymop 1y ago
  I'm not American and nor part of the far left. But to me it seems clear that the democrats made just painfully bad choices in the candidates they picked and repeatedly so. People not voting happens to be, although perhaps not understandable to you and me, a consequence of that.