3 ms·

Don't fines generally escalate for repeat offenders?

by accoil 1y ago

add-sub-mul-div 1y ago
Yes hence the joke about why it would be worthwhile to lock in this rate.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- accoil 1y ago
  I did suspect Poe was involved. Been trying to think it through, but I guess I'm getting annoyed by how trivial people seem to think fines are. I'm not sure how to research this, but it seems like most companies hit with a fine like that will change their behavior. Malicious compliance exists (and I would not put it past Google), but it is at least moving in a better direction. That said. I also think Google has access to powerful tools to manipulate the laws behind the fines....
  - temp4827482 1y ago
    Google just got hit with a $314 million fine for secretly tracking Android users’ locations. Sounds big, right? Not really. In 2024, Alphabet made $62 billion in net income — this fine is just 0.5% of that. History shows fines this small don’t change corporate behavior. Take HSBC. In 2012, they paid $1.9 billion for laundering cartel and sanctioned-country money — 11% of their profit that year. Still, they were later linked to another $4.2 billion laundering ring between 2014–2017[1][2]. Or Pfizer. In 2009, they were fined $2.3 billion for illegally marketing drugs — about 25% of that year’s profit. Yet more settlements followed in the years after[3][4]. If 10–25% fines didn’t deter repeat offenses, a 0.5% fine won’t even register. Google will just move on and likely continue the same behavior. People here think the fine is trivial because it is. Unless you include some sort of regulatory oversight or criminal charges, corporate behavior doesn't change, it's just the cost of doing business to them. Sources: [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/business-20673466 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-20673466 [2] https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2021-07-28/money-laundering-ring-pushed-4.2bn-through-hsbc https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2021-07-28/mon... [3] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-largest-health-care-fraud-settlement-its-history https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-... [4] [5]links weren't working unless through google, leaving the wiki page here instead on the lawsuits: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfizer https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfizer particularly the section on Illegal marketing of Bextra settlement (2009): it required a "corporate integrity agreement with the Office of Inspector General that required it to make substantial structural reforms within the company, and publish to its website its post approval commitments and a searchable database of all payments to physicians made by the company." Finally something more than just a fine.
    - accoil 1y ago
      Thanks for the keywords and sources. Is there a place I can look up fines for a company?
    - lern_too_spel 1y ago
      > Google just got hit with a $314 million fine for secretly tracking Android users’ locations It didn't. It got sued for using users' metered cellular data and received a judgment telling it to pay users for that data usage. There is nothing about a fine for secretly tracking locations here.

Don't fines generally escalate for repeat offenders?

by accoil 1y ago

Don't fines generally escalate for repeat offenders?

add-sub-mul-div 1y ago

Yes hence the joke about why it would be worthwhile to lock in this rate.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
accoil 1y ago
I did suspect Poe was involved. Been trying to think it through, but I guess I'm getting annoyed by how trivial people seem to think fines are. I'm not sure how to research this, but it seems like most companies hit with a fine like that will change their behavior. Malicious compliance exists (and I would not put it past Google), but it is at least moving in a better direction. That said. I also think Google has access to powerful tools to manipulate the laws behind the fines....
- temp4827482 1y ago
  Google just got hit with a $314 million fine for secretly tracking Android users’ locations. Sounds big, right? Not really. In 2024, Alphabet made $62 billion in net income — this fine is just 0.5% of that. History shows fines this small don’t change corporate behavior. Take HSBC. In 2012, they paid $1.9 billion for laundering cartel and sanctioned-country money — 11% of their profit that year. Still, they were later linked to another $4.2 billion laundering ring between 2014–2017[1][2]. Or Pfizer. In 2009, they were fined $2.3 billion for illegally marketing drugs — about 25% of that year’s profit. Yet more settlements followed in the years after[3][4]. If 10–25% fines didn’t deter repeat offenses, a 0.5% fine won’t even register. Google will just move on and likely continue the same behavior. People here think the fine is trivial because it is. Unless you include some sort of regulatory oversight or criminal charges, corporate behavior doesn't change, it's just the cost of doing business to them. Sources: [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/business-20673466 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-20673466 [2] https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2021-07-28/money-laundering-ring-pushed-4.2bn-through-hsbc https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2021-07-28/mon... [3] https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-largest-health-care-fraud-settlement-its-history https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-announces-... [4] [5]links weren't working unless through google, leaving the wiki page here instead on the lawsuits: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfizer https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfizer particularly the section on Illegal marketing of Bextra settlement (2009): it required a "corporate integrity agreement with the Office of Inspector General that required it to make substantial structural reforms within the company, and publish to its website its post approval commitments and a searchable database of all payments to physicians made by the company." Finally something more than just a fine.
  - accoil 1y ago
    Thanks for the keywords and sources. Is there a place I can look up fines for a company?
  - lern_too_spel 1y ago
    > Google just got hit with a $314 million fine for secretly tracking Android users’ locations It didn't. It got sued for using users' metered cellular data and received a judgment telling it to pay users for that data usage. There is nothing about a fine for secretly tracking locations here.