5 ms·

I write online (comments here, open source software, blogging, etc) because I have ideas I want to share. Whether it's "I did a thing and here's how" or "we sh

by jefftk 1y ago

I write online (comments here, open source software, blogging, etc) because I have ideas I want to share. Whether it's "I did a thing and here's how" or "we should change policy in this specific way" or "does anyone know how to X" I'm happy for this to go into training models just like I'm happy for it to go into humans reading.

dolebirchwood 1y ago
Thank you for having this attitude. I have never attempted any blogging because I always figured no one is actually going to read it. With LLMs, however, I know they will. I actually see this as a motivation to blog, as we are in a position to shape this emerging knowledge base. I don't find it discouraging that others may be profiting off our freely published work, just as I myself have benefited tremendously from open source and the freely published works of others.
- arkmm 1y ago
  This is an interesting take, thanks for sharing. I wonder how someone should adjust their blogging if they believe their primary audience will be LLMs.
  - lawlessone 1y ago
    SEO -> LLMEO
  - trollbridge 1y ago
    There’s a few instances of things I stated (about historical topics or very narrow topics in sociology) that were incorrect. LLMs scraped these off of web forums or other places, and now these bogus “facts” are permanently embedded into LLM models, because nobody else ever really talked about the specific topic. Most amusingly, someone cited LLM generated output about this telling me how this “fact” is true when I was telling them it’s not true.
godelski 1y ago
Tbh, that content I'm mostly fine with. My only real issue is that people are making trillions off the free labor of people like you and me, giving less time to create that OSS and blogs. But this isn't new to AI, it is just scaled. What I do care about is the theft of my identity. A person may learn from the words I write but that person doesn't end up mimicking the way I write. They are still uniquely themselves. I'm concerned that the more I write the more my text becomes my identifier. I use a handle so I can talk more openly about some issues. We write OSS and blog because information should be free. But that information is then being locked behinds paywalls and becoming more difficult to be found through search. Frankly, that's not okay
- bob1029 1y ago
  > OSS > people are making trillions off the free labor of people like you and me I read "No Discrimination Against Fields of Endeavor" to also include LLMs and especially the cases that we most deeply disagree with. Either we believe in the principles of OSS or we do not. If you do not like the idea of your intellectual property being used for commercial purposes then this model is definitely not for you. There is no shame in keeping your source code and other IP a secret. If you have strong expectations of being compensated for your work, then perhaps a different licensing and distribution model is what you are after. > that information is then being locked behinds paywalls and becoming more difficult to be found through search Sure - If you give up and delete everything. No one is forcing you to put your blog and GH repos behind a paywall.
  - mattl 1y ago
    Open source software typically has a license. People not following the license isn’t tolerated. This is what AI scrapers are doing. They’re taking your code, your artwork and your writing without any consideration for the license.
    - jefftk 1y ago
      Weather training on code is fair use is still an open legal question, and it may well be fair use. The way a license works is by saying "you have my permission to use this code as long as you follow these conditions", but if no license is required than the conditions are irrelevant. There is an active case on this, where Microsoft has been sued over GitHub copilot, and it has been slowly moving through the court system since 2022. Most of the claims have been dismissed, and the prediction market is at 11%: https://manifold.markets/JeffKaufman/will-the-github-copilot-litigation https://manifold.markets/JeffKaufman/will-the-github-copilot...

by jefftk 1y ago

dolebirchwood 1y ago

Thank you for having this attitude. I have never attempted any blogging because I always figured no one is actually going to read it. With LLMs, however, I know they will. I actually see this as a motivation to blog, as we are in a position to shape this emerging knowledge base. I don't find it discouraging that others may be profiting off our freely published work, just as I myself have benefited tremendously from open source and the freely published works of others.

arkmm 1y ago
This is an interesting take, thanks for sharing. I wonder how someone should adjust their blogging if they believe their primary audience will be LLMs.
- lawlessone 1y ago
  SEO -> LLMEO
- trollbridge 1y ago
  There’s a few instances of things I stated (about historical topics or very narrow topics in sociology) that were incorrect. LLMs scraped these off of web forums or other places, and now these bogus “facts” are permanently embedded into LLM models, because nobody else ever really talked about the specific topic. Most amusingly, someone cited LLM generated output about this telling me how this “fact” is true when I was telling them it’s not true.

godelski 1y ago

Tbh, that content I'm mostly fine with. My only real issue is that people are making trillions off the free labor of people like you and me, giving less time to create that OSS and blogs. But this isn't new to AI, it is just scaled. What I do care about is the theft of my identity. A person may learn from the words I write but that person doesn't end up mimicking the way I write. They are still uniquely themselves. I'm concerned that the more I write the more my text becomes my identifier. I use a handle so I can talk more openly about some issues. We write OSS and blog because information should be free. But that information is then being locked behinds paywalls and becoming more difficult to be found through search. Frankly, that's not okay

bob1029 1y ago
> OSS > people are making trillions off the free labor of people like you and me I read "No Discrimination Against Fields of Endeavor" to also include LLMs and especially the cases that we most deeply disagree with. Either we believe in the principles of OSS or we do not. If you do not like the idea of your intellectual property being used for commercial purposes then this model is definitely not for you. There is no shame in keeping your source code and other IP a secret. If you have strong expectations of being compensated for your work, then perhaps a different licensing and distribution model is what you are after. > that information is then being locked behinds paywalls and becoming more difficult to be found through search Sure - If you give up and delete everything. No one is forcing you to put your blog and GH repos behind a paywall.
- mattl 1y ago
  Open source software typically has a license. People not following the license isn’t tolerated. This is what AI scrapers are doing. They’re taking your code, your artwork and your writing without any consideration for the license.
  - jefftk 1y ago
    Weather training on code is fair use is still an open legal question, and it may well be fair use. The way a license works is by saying "you have my permission to use this code as long as you follow these conditions", but if no license is required than the conditions are irrelevant. There is an active case on this, where Microsoft has been sued over GitHub copilot, and it has been slowly moving through the court system since 2022. Most of the claims have been dismissed, and the prediction market is at 11%: https://manifold.markets/JeffKaufman/will-the-github-copilot-litigation https://manifold.markets/JeffKaufman/will-the-github-copilot...