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Let's be real. For all their flaws, US cops are some of the least corrupt in the world. There are places where you better be ready to fork over cash every time

Let's be real. For all their flaws, US cops are some of the least corrupt in the world. There are places where you better be ready to fork over cash every time you encounter the police.

afavour 1y ago
> US cops are some of the least corrupt in the world I don't think that's a good metric to judge them by (I also don't think it's true if you compare to first world countries). Sure, third world countries have police forces that are more corrupt. But US cops are corrupt in a wide variety of ways and we should be very clear about how unacceptable that is. It doesn't matter if someone somewhere else in the world is worse.
- AlexandrB 1y ago
  I can't speak for other first world countries, but Canada has its share of police misconduct. The most recent example is the mishandling of the 22-person killing spree in Nova Scotia[1], and the Toronto police are so famously bad at investigating sex crimes and protecting victims that an entire book was written on the subject[2]. [1] https://www.vice.com/en/article/canada-police-mistakes-novia-scotia-shooting-inquiry/ https://www.vice.com/en/article/canada-police-mistakes-novia... [2] https://www.amazon.ca/Story-Jane-Doe-Book-About/dp/0679312757 https://www.amazon.ca/Story-Jane-Doe-Book-About/dp/067931275...
  - sgnelson 1y ago
    incompetence =/= corruption.
    - heavyset_go 1y ago
      Corruption allows incompetence to thrive. Deliberate inaction can also be whitewashed as "incompetence".
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- jvergeldedios 1y ago
  I've never understood the "be happy you're not in authoritarian Russia" type of argument for papering over the shortcomings of circumstances here in the US. Like, ok? Why are we comparing ourselves to places that are worse? Shouldn't we be striving to make things better relative to our own ideals and standards?
  - AlexandrB 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - jvergeldedios 1y ago
      So you're erecting a straw man and attacking that. My assertion is that policing in the US has structural issues that need to be addressed. I disagree that it's helpful to remember that it could be worse as evidenced in other countries. That's irrelevant to the original assertion. Also the argument that there are proposals on how to address structural issues in policing that you deem "ridiculous nonsense" is a straw man that does not address my assertion.
    - SpicyLemonZest 1y ago
      I don't think we should defund most police agencies in the US. I absolutely think that we need to defund ICE, throw a substantial number of its current employees in jail, and build a new immigration enforcement agency from the ground up. Nobody who authorized masked raids by the secret police can be trusted to enforce the law and I do not consider any agency who employs them legitimate.
      - jakelazaroff 1y ago
        If I tried to abduct someone from my local courthouse, do you think the cops would let me get away with it? Because they've worked in lockstep with ICE as they've done exactly that. Defunding the police and defunding ICE are not two separate issues.
        1y ago
mlinhares 1y ago
Dude, I paid to have stickers and "sheriff cards" to make it less likely cops are going to stop me cos i'm a "friend of the police". Its wild to read cops in the US are not corrupt, did people just not read modern US history? Prohibition? Civil rights? Union busting? The Pinkertons?
- AlexandrB 1y ago
  "least corrupt" != "not corrupt" What you're describing is bad but also pretty mild by international standards.
- korse 1y ago
  Funny story about the Pinkertons if you don't already know... if you skateboard or do similar shenanigans involving parking structures or industrial wasteland, you've probably been chased by their direct descendants. [1] https://www.securitas.com/en/newsroom/press-releases_list/securitas-and-pinkerton-to-form-world-leader-in-security/ https://www.securitas.com/en/newsroom/press-releases_list/se...
  - Volundr 1y ago
    Hey! I resemble that remark! I worked as a security guard through college. Never chased a skateboarder, but I did ask them nicely to leave at least once a week.
- potato3732842 1y ago
  They're not literally corrupt. There's just a huge amount of conflict of interests, bad incentives and bad behavior. People play fast and loose with the word "corrupt" the same way they do with "conspiracy".
  - mlinhares 1y ago
    You could try searching "police corruption in the US" before saying they're not literally corrupt. They will literally grab a cop that was prosecuted and found guilty, hide the records and have them hired in some other police force in a nearby town. There's a whole mafia setup going on, organized by their unions, we're not far from having "police controlled neighborhoods" like in many LATAM countries.
9283409232 1y ago
LA Police are a literal gang. There are places with police that are corrupt in more obvious ways such as places in Africa but to say US cops are some of the least corrupt is ridiculous.
- AlexandrB 1y ago
  This is a very sheltered take. Go south of the border to Mexico (you don't need to go anywhere as far as Africa) and you can experience getting pulled over for no reason by a cop looking for a payout. That's not to mention that cartels are allowed to run rampant and collect "protection" in Mexican cities because the cops either don't care, are in the cartel themselves, or are being paid off. As I said to another commenter, "some of the least corrupt" != "not corrupt". I'm sure some countries are better, but there are not that many.
  - 9283409232 1y ago
    You don't need to go south of the border. You can get pulled over for no reason in the US and have drugs planted on you by a cop simply having a bad day. I'm not interpreting least corrupt as no corruption. I think least corrupt is still a ridiculous statement.
    - wordofx 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - 9283409232 1y ago
        Spend some time in the less fortunate areas of your city. You'll learn very quickly how things work when it comes to the police.
        Volundr 1y ago
        Or just anywhere in Northern Idaho. Especially roads that connect to Oregon.
potato3732842 1y ago
It's not that they're corrupt in the literal sense. It's that they have discretion of enforcement of laws so expansive with so many precedents in their favor that they basically have de-facto power to arrest anyone and that when they do want to do something stupid they're not "corrupt" so you can't just pay them off to be reasonable.
jimt1234 1y ago
This has been down-voted a lot, but I actually kinda agree, at least with the second assertion. I've been going down to Baja, Mexico frequently for years, and, as an American (white dude), you quickly learn that you're a target for local police - you're basically their ATM. And there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. You just do your best to avoid them, like agents in The Matrix.
- watwut 1y ago
  Germany, Finland, France, Sweden, Canada ... when you compare them to most corrupt states, you are not proving they are best. You are peoving they are not absolute bottom. That being said, America is unique in officially allowing cops to kill people just because of how they feel, with no objective reason for it.
  - account42 1y ago
    In Germany you are not even allowed to insult the police and they do use that to go after people they don't like.
    - shadowgovt 1y ago
      Speaking of Germany, can you think of other points in history where the public banded together to subvert police authority and hide their neighbors from the cops? Why did they do that?
    - L3viathan 1y ago
      While true, that is true for everyone, there's no special law about police.
- WarOnPrivacy 1y ago
  >> For all their flaws, US cops are some of the least corrupt > I actually kinda agree, It is my long and consistent experience (MI spouse) that the quality of police officers depends on the quality of the police chief. We had good, experienced officers here a generation ago. A funding-addicted sheriff was elected. He fired cops w/ decades of exp and replaced them with just-graduated kids. The remaining cops were subject to some kind of dept environment that left them half-unhinged. Addicted sheriff quit after a few terms and his replacement was pretty good for a while. Now he's average, so kind of crappy.
SpicyLemonZest 1y ago
Corruption just doesn't have much to do with the kind of misconduct that comes up in the US. It's true, yes, that an American officer who's decided to mistreat you won't usually accept a bribe to stop.
lupusreal 1y ago
Credit where credit is due, American cops are considerably less corrupt than American politicians. Most people in America would never even dream of trying to pay off a cop to get out of a speeding ticket, that sort of thing just doesn't work and everybody knows it. On the other hand, bribing local politicians to get some land rezoned for your business, or some other similar crap? That's just standard operating procedure in small towns everywhere.
acdha 1y ago
If you define “corrupt” as not asking for bribes on duty, perhaps. If you use the common definition of the term to include things like being bound by the law the same as the average person, however, that’s tragically untrue. Officers routinely cover up the misconduct of their fellows and force rehiring of the few officers who are held accountable even for serious crimes.
michael1999 1y ago
If you are comparing to northern Mexico, sure. If you are comparing to northern Europe, LMAO. With FOP stickers, "courtesy cards", placard abuse, and violent impunity, there's lots of corruption going around. https://apnews.com/article/nypd-courtesy-card-police-misconduct-d5dfdbdad12b01a2cda864f69aa3d1aa https://apnews.com/article/nypd-courtesy-card-police-miscond...
KingMob 1y ago
As someone who lives in a SEA country, I'm 100x safer with a local cop who wants a few bucks at a traffic stop than with any American cop.
indymike 1y ago
We do have good police in the US. But I'd prefer not to interact in their official capacity with them if possible because there is a non-zero chance that the specific officer I'm talking to is not one of the good ones. I recently had a run in where I was photographing a duck on the roof of a house. A cop literally ran up to me and asked what I was doing with his hand on his gun, holster released. I was fortunate that he realized how nuts his behavior was when I pointed out that I was taking a picture of a crazy duck sitting on a chimney. I also realized that I probably would have been shot had I not been calm and polite.
- chasd00 1y ago
  i'm not a cop super fan or anything but i did make it a point to wave at and get to know the officers that patrol my neighborhood. I've had them stop by when walking my dogs to let me know that they got a call about a suspicious person and to keep an eye out. Maybe it comes from working in consulting but that level of relationship with police officers is very useful to me as an individual.
  - indymike 1y ago
    Not being injured or worse is always a good thing. I find the amount of violence in law enforcement is a little out of control. Too many news stories about an 89 year old lady being beat over a turn signal traffic stop, wanting to know why they are being detained or for having an opinion contrary to Officer Pepper Spray.
ang_cire 1y ago
If we're limiting 'corruption' to just be about bribes, then sure. Of course, in reality it also encompasses racism, nepotism, etc (i.e. anything that is a "corruption" of the impartial execution of their jobs). I suspect many Black people would prefer paying a bribe to being killed by police at an outsize ratio, or paying a bribe to being charged more aggressively and sentenced more harshly. Police brutality and incarceration is worse than bribes, my dude.

Let's be real. For all their flaws, US cops are some of the least corrupt in the world. There are places where you better be ready to fork over cash every time you encounter the police.

afavour 1y ago

> US cops are some of the least corrupt in the world I don't think that's a good metric to judge them by (I also don't think it's true if you compare to first world countries). Sure, third world countries have police forces that are more corrupt. But US cops are corrupt in a wide variety of ways and we should be very clear about how unacceptable that is. It doesn't matter if someone somewhere else in the world is worse.

AlexandrB 1y ago
I can't speak for other first world countries, but Canada has its share of police misconduct. The most recent example is the mishandling of the 22-person killing spree in Nova Scotia[1], and the Toronto police are so famously bad at investigating sex crimes and protecting victims that an entire book was written on the subject[2]. [1] https://www.vice.com/en/article/canada-police-mistakes-novia-scotia-shooting-inquiry/ https://www.vice.com/en/article/canada-police-mistakes-novia... [2] https://www.amazon.ca/Story-Jane-Doe-Book-About/dp/0679312757 https://www.amazon.ca/Story-Jane-Doe-Book-About/dp/067931275...
- sgnelson 1y ago
  incompetence =/= corruption.
  - heavyset_go 1y ago
    Corruption allows incompetence to thrive. Deliberate inaction can also be whitewashed as "incompetence".
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
jvergeldedios 1y ago
I've never understood the "be happy you're not in authoritarian Russia" type of argument for papering over the shortcomings of circumstances here in the US. Like, ok? Why are we comparing ourselves to places that are worse? Shouldn't we be striving to make things better relative to our own ideals and standards?
- AlexandrB 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - jvergeldedios 1y ago
    So you're erecting a straw man and attacking that. My assertion is that policing in the US has structural issues that need to be addressed. I disagree that it's helpful to remember that it could be worse as evidenced in other countries. That's irrelevant to the original assertion. Also the argument that there are proposals on how to address structural issues in policing that you deem "ridiculous nonsense" is a straw man that does not address my assertion.
  - SpicyLemonZest 1y ago
    I don't think we should defund most police agencies in the US. I absolutely think that we need to defund ICE, throw a substantial number of its current employees in jail, and build a new immigration enforcement agency from the ground up. Nobody who authorized masked raids by the secret police can be trusted to enforce the law and I do not consider any agency who employs them legitimate.
    - jakelazaroff 1y ago
      If I tried to abduct someone from my local courthouse, do you think the cops would let me get away with it? Because they've worked in lockstep with ICE as they've done exactly that. Defunding the police and defunding ICE are not two separate issues.
      - 1y ago

mlinhares 1y ago

Dude, I paid to have stickers and "sheriff cards" to make it less likely cops are going to stop me cos i'm a "friend of the police". Its wild to read cops in the US are not corrupt, did people just not read modern US history? Prohibition? Civil rights? Union busting? The Pinkertons?

AlexandrB 1y ago
"least corrupt" != "not corrupt" What you're describing is bad but also pretty mild by international standards.
korse 1y ago
Funny story about the Pinkertons if you don't already know... if you skateboard or do similar shenanigans involving parking structures or industrial wasteland, you've probably been chased by their direct descendants. [1] https://www.securitas.com/en/newsroom/press-releases_list/securitas-and-pinkerton-to-form-world-leader-in-security/ https://www.securitas.com/en/newsroom/press-releases_list/se...
- Volundr 1y ago
  Hey! I resemble that remark! I worked as a security guard through college. Never chased a skateboarder, but I did ask them nicely to leave at least once a week.
potato3732842 1y ago
They're not literally corrupt. There's just a huge amount of conflict of interests, bad incentives and bad behavior. People play fast and loose with the word "corrupt" the same way they do with "conspiracy".
- mlinhares 1y ago
  You could try searching "police corruption in the US" before saying they're not literally corrupt. They will literally grab a cop that was prosecuted and found guilty, hide the records and have them hired in some other police force in a nearby town. There's a whole mafia setup going on, organized by their unions, we're not far from having "police controlled neighborhoods" like in many LATAM countries.

9283409232 1y ago

LA Police are a literal gang. There are places with police that are corrupt in more obvious ways such as places in Africa but to say US cops are some of the least corrupt is ridiculous.

AlexandrB 1y ago
This is a very sheltered take. Go south of the border to Mexico (you don't need to go anywhere as far as Africa) and you can experience getting pulled over for no reason by a cop looking for a payout. That's not to mention that cartels are allowed to run rampant and collect "protection" in Mexican cities because the cops either don't care, are in the cartel themselves, or are being paid off. As I said to another commenter, "some of the least corrupt" != "not corrupt". I'm sure some countries are better, but there are not that many.
- 9283409232 1y ago
  You don't need to go south of the border. You can get pulled over for no reason in the US and have drugs planted on you by a cop simply having a bad day. I'm not interpreting least corrupt as no corruption. I think least corrupt is still a ridiculous statement.
  - wordofx 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - 9283409232 1y ago
      Spend some time in the less fortunate areas of your city. You'll learn very quickly how things work when it comes to the police.
      - Volundr 1y ago
        Or just anywhere in Northern Idaho. Especially roads that connect to Oregon.

potato3732842 1y ago

It's not that they're corrupt in the literal sense. It's that they have discretion of enforcement of laws so expansive with so many precedents in their favor that they basically have de-facto power to arrest anyone and that when they do want to do something stupid they're not "corrupt" so you can't just pay them off to be reasonable.

jimt1234 1y ago

This has been down-voted a lot, but I actually kinda agree, at least with the second assertion. I've been going down to Baja, Mexico frequently for years, and, as an American (white dude), you quickly learn that you're a target for local police - you're basically their ATM. And there's absolutely nothing you can do about it. You just do your best to avoid them, like agents in The Matrix.

watwut 1y ago
Germany, Finland, France, Sweden, Canada ... when you compare them to most corrupt states, you are not proving they are best. You are peoving they are not absolute bottom. That being said, America is unique in officially allowing cops to kill people just because of how they feel, with no objective reason for it.
- account42 1y ago
  In Germany you are not even allowed to insult the police and they do use that to go after people they don't like.
  - shadowgovt 1y ago
    Speaking of Germany, can you think of other points in history where the public banded together to subvert police authority and hide their neighbors from the cops? Why did they do that?
  - L3viathan 1y ago
    While true, that is true for everyone, there's no special law about police.
WarOnPrivacy 1y ago
>> For all their flaws, US cops are some of the least corrupt > I actually kinda agree, It is my long and consistent experience (MI spouse) that the quality of police officers depends on the quality of the police chief. We had good, experienced officers here a generation ago. A funding-addicted sheriff was elected. He fired cops w/ decades of exp and replaced them with just-graduated kids. The remaining cops were subject to some kind of dept environment that left them half-unhinged. Addicted sheriff quit after a few terms and his replacement was pretty good for a while. Now he's average, so kind of crappy.

SpicyLemonZest 1y ago

Corruption just doesn't have much to do with the kind of misconduct that comes up in the US. It's true, yes, that an American officer who's decided to mistreat you won't usually accept a bribe to stop.

lupusreal 1y ago

Credit where credit is due, American cops are considerably less corrupt than American politicians. Most people in America would never even dream of trying to pay off a cop to get out of a speeding ticket, that sort of thing just doesn't work and everybody knows it. On the other hand, bribing local politicians to get some land rezoned for your business, or some other similar crap? That's just standard operating procedure in small towns everywhere.

acdha 1y ago

If you define “corrupt” as not asking for bribes on duty, perhaps. If you use the common definition of the term to include things like being bound by the law the same as the average person, however, that’s tragically untrue. Officers routinely cover up the misconduct of their fellows and force rehiring of the few officers who are held accountable even for serious crimes.

michael1999 1y ago

If you are comparing to northern Mexico, sure. If you are comparing to northern Europe, LMAO. With FOP stickers, "courtesy cards", placard abuse, and violent impunity, there's lots of corruption going around. https://apnews.com/article/nypd-courtesy-card-police-misconduct-d5dfdbdad12b01a2cda864f69aa3d1aa https://apnews.com/article/nypd-courtesy-card-police-miscond...

KingMob 1y ago

As someone who lives in a SEA country, I'm 100x safer with a local cop who wants a few bucks at a traffic stop than with any American cop.

indymike 1y ago

We do have good police in the US. But I'd prefer not to interact in their official capacity with them if possible because there is a non-zero chance that the specific officer I'm talking to is not one of the good ones. I recently had a run in where I was photographing a duck on the roof of a house. A cop literally ran up to me and asked what I was doing with his hand on his gun, holster released. I was fortunate that he realized how nuts his behavior was when I pointed out that I was taking a picture of a crazy duck sitting on a chimney. I also realized that I probably would have been shot had I not been calm and polite.

chasd00 1y ago
i'm not a cop super fan or anything but i did make it a point to wave at and get to know the officers that patrol my neighborhood. I've had them stop by when walking my dogs to let me know that they got a call about a suspicious person and to keep an eye out. Maybe it comes from working in consulting but that level of relationship with police officers is very useful to me as an individual.
- indymike 1y ago
  Not being injured or worse is always a good thing. I find the amount of violence in law enforcement is a little out of control. Too many news stories about an 89 year old lady being beat over a turn signal traffic stop, wanting to know why they are being detained or for having an opinion contrary to Officer Pepper Spray.

ang_cire 1y ago

If we're limiting 'corruption' to just be about bribes, then sure. Of course, in reality it also encompasses racism, nepotism, etc (i.e. anything that is a "corruption" of the impartial execution of their jobs). I suspect many Black people would prefer paying a bribe to being killed by police at an outsize ratio, or paying a bribe to being charged more aggressively and sentenced more harshly. Police brutality and incarceration is worse than bribes, my dude.