4 ms·

In the US, over the last 45 years, work has increased in value about 3.5% a year, and the S&P about 9.5% a year. Work is not valued, wealth is.

by ta1243 1y ago

myrmidon 1y ago
This is exactly what I mean-- I think also the whole housing affordability is just another side of this coin: Buying a home grew more expensive (in terms of median income) for decades, and that alone is a huge problem in my view, with no realistic solution that I can see (=> except demand implosion from a shrinking population, which would probably create twice the amount of problems that it solves...)
- ta1243 1y ago
  Housing costs in the western world is the root cause of everything. Housing costs on a monthly basis increase to take all income, because the demand for housing is higher than the supply. You can't simply reduce your consumption, because you are reliant on everyone doing the same thing. Rent controls don't help because that means housing simply has to be rationed in another way which is typically worse. The solution is to increase housing supply in high demand areas.
  - ethbr1 1y ago
    Has anywhere tried rent taxes to fund new construction? It'd need to be strictly tied with a viable building method, to limit NIMBY problems, but would accomplish the goal. If rent for class Y housing is $A, and the target price is a lesser $B, then tax the $A-$B difference at a high rate, with 100% of the tax proceeds being used to directly fund new class Y housing creation. Bigger delta = more funding for new construcion
    - ta1243 1y ago
      If there's demand, companies will fund new construction. The problem is that planning, zoning, nimby restrictions means you can't The invisible hand of the market certainly isn't all powerful, just like chickens aren't spherical and travel in a vaccuum, but when you stick it in a plaster cast as we do with housing, it becomes useless. If you tax rental, what about owners? They won't care, they don't pay the tax.
      - ethbr1 1y ago
        > If there's demand, companies will fund new construction. Not necessarily. Companies will fund new construction that gives them the best returns. Because there are rarely luxury limits on what can be built on land, this results in the most square footage, luxurious house that the market will bear. > If you tax rental, what about owners? They won't care, they don't pay the tax. Owners would pay the tax in this scenario.
bluecalm 1y ago
Why would you compare a unit of work (say an hour) to a cumulative index? It just doesn't make any sense to compare those two values.
- ta1243 1y ago
  An hour of work buys far less of a percentage of the value of US companies than it did 20 years ago. in 1983 a single "share" in the S&P, or a single unit of American business, cost $120, about 13 hours work at the median wage then of about $9/hr. Today you would have work for about 200 hours at the median wage of $30/hr to buy the same single share ($6200) Companies have ballooned in value relative to median earnings. And top 10%ile earnings too for that matter.

In the US, over the last 45 years, work has increased in value about 3.5% a year, and the S&P about 9.5% a year. Work is not valued, wealth is.

by ta1243 1y ago

In the US, over the last 45 years, work has increased in value about 3.5% a year, and the S&P about 9.5% a year. Work is not valued, wealth is.

myrmidon 1y ago

This is exactly what I mean-- I think also the whole housing affordability is just another side of this coin: Buying a home grew more expensive (in terms of median income) for decades, and that alone is a huge problem in my view, with no realistic solution that I can see (=> except demand implosion from a shrinking population, which would probably create twice the amount of problems that it solves...)

ta1243 1y ago
Housing costs in the western world is the root cause of everything. Housing costs on a monthly basis increase to take all income, because the demand for housing is higher than the supply. You can't simply reduce your consumption, because you are reliant on everyone doing the same thing. Rent controls don't help because that means housing simply has to be rationed in another way which is typically worse. The solution is to increase housing supply in high demand areas.
- ethbr1 1y ago
  Has anywhere tried rent taxes to fund new construction? It'd need to be strictly tied with a viable building method, to limit NIMBY problems, but would accomplish the goal. If rent for class Y housing is $A, and the target price is a lesser $B, then tax the $A-$B difference at a high rate, with 100% of the tax proceeds being used to directly fund new class Y housing creation. Bigger delta = more funding for new construcion
  - ta1243 1y ago
    If there's demand, companies will fund new construction. The problem is that planning, zoning, nimby restrictions means you can't The invisible hand of the market certainly isn't all powerful, just like chickens aren't spherical and travel in a vaccuum, but when you stick it in a plaster cast as we do with housing, it becomes useless. If you tax rental, what about owners? They won't care, they don't pay the tax.
    - ethbr1 1y ago
      > If there's demand, companies will fund new construction. Not necessarily. Companies will fund new construction that gives them the best returns. Because there are rarely luxury limits on what can be built on land, this results in the most square footage, luxurious house that the market will bear. > If you tax rental, what about owners? They won't care, they don't pay the tax. Owners would pay the tax in this scenario.

bluecalm 1y ago

Why would you compare a unit of work (say an hour) to a cumulative index? It just doesn't make any sense to compare those two values.

ta1243 1y ago
An hour of work buys far less of a percentage of the value of US companies than it did 20 years ago. in 1983 a single "share" in the S&P, or a single unit of American business, cost $120, about 13 hours work at the median wage then of about $9/hr. Today you would have work for about 200 hours at the median wage of $30/hr to buy the same single share ($6200) Companies have ballooned in value relative to median earnings. And top 10%ile earnings too for that matter.