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Did they do it with EUV or just more multipatterning DUV? If it's the latter then it's not anything particular to worry about or unexpected.
by corimaith 1y ago
Did they do it with EUV or just more multipatterning DUV? If it's the latter then it's not anything particular to worry about or unexpected.
- bayindirh 1y agoIf the chip is working, has a comparable performance and slows the gap or reverses the trend, does it really matter?
- imtringued 1y agoIntel struggled with 10nm and you're shrugging off 6nm as if it was nothing?
- nickysielicki 1y agoProcess node naming is completely made up. It’s been this way for a very long time. https://community.cadence.com/cadence_blogs_8/b/breakfast-bytes/posts/process-nodes https://community.cadence.com/cadence_blogs_8/b/breakfast-by... It has nothing to do with the size of anything.
- linotype 1y agoIn fact, process node naming has always been made up.
- nickysielicki 1y agoNot really? The physical gate length matched the node name all throughout the 2000s.
- linotype 1y agoeven that concept was in fact made up.
- trq01758 1y ago"China has EUV" would be news of the century. No doubt they are trying.
- saubeidl 1y agoThe only ones that have EUV are the Europeans. Despite all the anti-EU propaganda in these parts, the entire AI stack is powered by us.
- roenxi 1y agoIf you want the anti-EU points on that subject; the EU once (the 90s) represented around 40% of the world's semiconductor fabrication. Then the Asians decided that was a bit silly and the situation should be rationalised. Things like ASML are the tattered remnants of the EU being a powerful force in this market. China might not be able to replicate ASML, we'll see. But if the EU can compete meaningfully with the Asians at semiconductor manufacturing that'd be a shocking development.
- saubeidl 1y agoI have a different interpretation of this. As our economy and expertise grows, we move further and further into foundational parts of the stack while leaving the implementation details to less developed countries. All modern semiconductors need ASML machines. All modern AI is based on research by Sepp Hochreitner. The www is based on work done by CERN. Most factories are run on Siemens automation systems. We've moved on from lower-level concerns like building chips to a higher level, directionally controlling the way economies and societies develop.
- ReptileMan 1y agoAnd it fails spectacularly when you see EU economic growth.
- saubeidl 1y agoIt only fails if you see economic growth as the metric to optimize for, which I would argue is another symptom of societies still focused on those lower levels of the stack. Economic growth is an enabling factor for a higher level metric, quality of live. It succeeds spectacularly there.
- randomNumber7 1y agoWhy is EUV so hard to build? If the europeans deveoloped it, why cant the chinese (with or without reverse engineering)?
- corimaith 1y agoEUV was an international effort by multiple (of the richest) countries specializing in different areas. There is no one country that does it all. When someone says China can do it, it's tantamount to saying China can outcompete the world. Maybe they can, but its not going to be an easy effort.
- randomNumber7 1y agoWhy is the technology then owned mostly by a single dutch company (if I understand it correctly)?
- HPsquared 1y agoIt's not, at all. The EUV light source itself comes from an American company, for instance. The mirrors come from Zeiss. ASML integrate the parts into a system.
- botro 1y agoThe International Space Station was an international effort by multiple (of the richest) countries specializing in different areas. There is no one country that does it all. China built their own.
- bilbo0s 1y agoYou would think people like HN User corimaith would have learned from the ISS fiasco. I've gotten to the point where I no longer even listen to people who underestimate the Chinese. Whatever points they're making can be safely ignored. Indeed, strategic sense demands we ignore them. The time for underestimating the Chinese is long past. That's not the reality we live in any longer.
- ReptileMan 1y agoDo you remember the speed with which Chinese phones went from absolute crap to legitimate flagships? Their automobiles? From having no AI as to speak of to Deepseek? China advancing at breakneck speed when they really want is something to be worried about if you want to be technologically ahead of them.
- randomNumber7 1y agoTheir government reasons with cause and effect while the western world argues about ideologies of different colours. If I would have to bet my money I would bet it on China.
- trainerxr50 1y agoLol this board is fucking joke.
- randomNumber7 1y agoStart insulting people when you have no arguments == blinded by ideology