5 ms·

Anytime someone tells you to be in it for the mission, you are expendable and underpaid.

chaosharmonic 1y ago
I don't at all disagree with you, but at the kind of money you'd be making at an org like OAI, it's easy to envision there being a ceiling, past which the additional financial compensation doesn't necessarily matter that much. The problem with the argument is that most places saying this are paying more like a sub-basement, not that there can't genuinely be more important things. That said, Sam Altman is also a guy who stuck nondisparagement terms into their equity agreement... and in that same vein, framing poaching as "someone has broken into our home" reads like cult language.
- ryandrake 1y ago
  We shouldn’t even be using the offensive word “poaching.” As an employee, I am not a deer or wild boar owned by a feudal lord by working for his company. And another employer isn’t some thief stealing me away. I have agency and control over who I enter into an employment arrangement with!
  - jaza 1y ago
    So then, is "headhunting" more or less bad?
    - ryandrake 1y ago
      I think anything that evokes “hunting on someone else’s land for his property” is equally inappropriate.
  - jack_riminton 1y ago
    Would "bought" be better then? implies slavery!
    - vasco 1y ago
      There's a word for this, it's called being hired.
    - saubeidl 1y ago
      "Making a more competitive offer"
  - chaosharmonic 1y ago
    I don't disagree with this either -- it's very clearly just a free market working both ways. It also immediately reminds me of the no-call agreements companies had with each other last decade 10 or 15yrs ago.
mbac32768 1y ago
Could Facebook hire away OpenAI people just by matching their comp? Doubtful. Facebook is widely hated and embarrassing to work at. Facebook has to offer significantly more. And if someone at OpenAI says hey Facebook just offered me more money to jump ship, that's when OpenAI says "Sorry to hear, best of luck. Seeya!" In this scenario, you're only underpaid by staying at OpenAI if you have no sense of shame.
- simianwords 1y ago
  I wonder what is it that Facebook offered? It can’t be money so I think it’s more responsibility or freedom. Or they had some secret breakthroughs?
  - Palmik 1y ago
    It's money. It's also a fresh, small org and a new project, which is exciting for variety of reasons.
    - simianwords 1y ago
      I can't explain why but I don't think money is it. Nor a new project or whatever can't be it either. Its just too small of a value proposition when you are already in openAI making banger models used by the world.
      - pm90 1y ago
        According to reports, the comp packages were in the hundreds of millions of dollars. I doubt anyone but execs are making that kind of money at OpenAI; its the sort of money you hope from a successful exit after years of efforts. I don’t blame them for jumping ship.
- lonesword 1y ago
  > Facebook is widely hated and embarrassing to work at. Not sure it's widely hated (disclaimer: I work there), despite all the bad press. The vast majority of people I meet respond with "oh how cool!" when they hear that someone works for the company that owns Instagram. "Embarassing to work at" - I can count on one hand the number of developers I've met who would refuse to work for Meta out of principle. They are there, but they are rarer than HN likes to believe. Most devs I know associate a FAANG job with competence (correctly or incorrectly). > Could Facebook hire away OpenAI people just by matching their comp? My guess is some people might value Meta's RSUs which are very liquid higher than OAI's illiquid stocks? I have no clue how equity compensation works at OAI.
DanielHB 1y ago
Crazy that this proves that engineers making >1 million USD /year can still be underpaid
- pm90 1y ago
  Yes Capitalism is an amazing thing
javcasas 1y ago
And will be fired/thrown under the bus the moment firing you is barely more profitable for the CxO than having you around.
blitzar 1y ago
I need you to be a team player on this one.
ponector 1y ago
That could be genuine words. Mission is to be expendable and make them rich. Don't forget about the mission during next round of layoffs and record high quarterly profits.
- vram22 1y ago
  Totally agree. Well said. Man, you are on a mission, to enable manumission! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manumission https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manumission

I don't at all disagree with you, but at the kind of money you'd be making at an org like OAI, it's easy to envision there being a ceiling, past which the additional financial compensation doesn't necessarily matter that much. The problem with the argument is that most places saying this are paying more like a sub-basement, not that there can't genuinely be more important things. That said, Sam Altman is also a guy who stuck nondisparagement terms into their equity agreement... and in that same vein, framing poaching as "someone has broken into our home" reads like cult language.

ryandrake 1y ago
We shouldn’t even be using the offensive word “poaching.” As an employee, I am not a deer or wild boar owned by a feudal lord by working for his company. And another employer isn’t some thief stealing me away. I have agency and control over who I enter into an employment arrangement with!
- jaza 1y ago
  So then, is "headhunting" more or less bad?
  - ryandrake 1y ago
    I think anything that evokes “hunting on someone else’s land for his property” is equally inappropriate.
- jack_riminton 1y ago
  Would "bought" be better then? implies slavery!
  - vasco 1y ago
    There's a word for this, it's called being hired.
  - saubeidl 1y ago
    "Making a more competitive offer"
- chaosharmonic 1y ago
  I don't disagree with this either -- it's very clearly just a free market working both ways. It also immediately reminds me of the no-call agreements companies had with each other last decade 10 or 15yrs ago.

mbac32768 1y ago

Could Facebook hire away OpenAI people just by matching their comp? Doubtful. Facebook is widely hated and embarrassing to work at. Facebook has to offer significantly more. And if someone at OpenAI says hey Facebook just offered me more money to jump ship, that's when OpenAI says "Sorry to hear, best of luck. Seeya!" In this scenario, you're only underpaid by staying at OpenAI if you have no sense of shame.

simianwords 1y ago
I wonder what is it that Facebook offered? It can’t be money so I think it’s more responsibility or freedom. Or they had some secret breakthroughs?
- Palmik 1y ago
  It's money. It's also a fresh, small org and a new project, which is exciting for variety of reasons.
  - simianwords 1y ago
    I can't explain why but I don't think money is it. Nor a new project or whatever can't be it either. Its just too small of a value proposition when you are already in openAI making banger models used by the world.
    - pm90 1y ago
      According to reports, the comp packages were in the hundreds of millions of dollars. I doubt anyone but execs are making that kind of money at OpenAI; its the sort of money you hope from a successful exit after years of efforts. I don’t blame them for jumping ship.
lonesword 1y ago
> Facebook is widely hated and embarrassing to work at. Not sure it's widely hated (disclaimer: I work there), despite all the bad press. The vast majority of people I meet respond with "oh how cool!" when they hear that someone works for the company that owns Instagram. "Embarassing to work at" - I can count on one hand the number of developers I've met who would refuse to work for Meta out of principle. They are there, but they are rarer than HN likes to believe. Most devs I know associate a FAANG job with competence (correctly or incorrectly). > Could Facebook hire away OpenAI people just by matching their comp? My guess is some people might value Meta's RSUs which are very liquid higher than OAI's illiquid stocks? I have no clue how equity compensation works at OAI.

DanielHB 1y ago

Crazy that this proves that engineers making >1 million USD /year can still be underpaid

pm90 1y ago
Yes Capitalism is an amazing thing

javcasas 1y ago

And will be fired/thrown under the bus the moment firing you is barely more profitable for the CxO than having you around.

blitzar 1y ago

I need you to be a team player on this one.

ponector 1y ago

That could be genuine words. Mission is to be expendable and make them rich. Don't forget about the mission during next round of layoffs and record high quarterly profits.

vram22 1y ago
Totally agree. Well said. Man, you are on a mission, to enable manumission! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manumission https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manumission