8 ms·

'Unprecedented' alerts in France as blistering heat grips Europe

42 points by julosflb 1y ago

dustincoates 1y ago
Thankfully in Paris it doesn't look like we're going to get it as bad as was expected. It's "only" going to be 100f/38c today and 90f/32c tomorrow. Hot, but considering that just a few days ago my weather app predicted 107f/42c, it's welcome. Still, it's hot. My daughter's school actually suggested parents keep their kids home today, as they aren't equipped for this heat.
- sandspar 1y ago
  How common is air conditioning in Paris? What proportion of homes have air conditioning, either built-in or portable? How about businesses? Does Paris have sufficient "cooling stations", as in, large, air conditioned, public-friendly businesses like malls or community centers?
  - JustFinishedBSG 1y ago
    Very uncommon / inexistant in private appartements except I guess if you live in a very very very upscale appartement. Installing AC is actually not allowed in many places ( because of urbanism laws) Only possible AC is those single hose mobile units which are wildly inefficient and close to useless while burning energy.
    - xoa 1y ago
      >Only possible AC is those single hose mobile units which are wildly inefficient and close to useless while burning energy. FWIW at least in the US (and I can't imagine they wouldn't be available worldwide) there are also dual hose portable AC units which can perform fairly decently, at least far better than single hose. I needed to use one for awhile at an old office (I think it was a Whynter model) and it was effective. There are also more exotic portable units that use water as the fluid dump, but that requires having a sufficient water source that you can utilize, and probably isn't going to be doable in a residential unit in a city. We had a couple at the chemistry lab I worked in 10-15 years ago that hooked into the lab water lines.
  - cpa 1y ago
    Fairly uncommon in homes (although I wouldn't go as far as the sibling comment that it's only for very upscale homes—I know plenty of people who are getting equipped). Because the unit has to be outside, there are many historic buildings where you can't install AC. It's less of a problem in other parts of France. Businesses open to the public and offices almost universally have AC, though, except maybe for mom and pop shops, so you definitely can go to the mall or the movies to get some fresh air.
    - dustincoates 1y ago
      Some offices are better than other when it comes up AC. My last regular office would turn the AC off for the entire floor if any windows were open. But then the meeting rooms would get stuffy, and people would open windows, so there effectively was no AC. The best place to go during weather like this is actually a grocery store: Picard, which only sells frozen food and so you get the escaped chill from the freezers.
    - mslansn 1y ago
      Paris has many historic buildings, but it’s not like the average Joe lives in any of those.
    - bryanlarsen 1y ago
      Not the answer I expected. From what I understand many homes in Germany have gotten air conditioning "for free" recently. They installed heat pumps due to incentives, which can run as air conditioners in the summer.
      - chopin 1y ago
        Most heat pumps in Germany are air to water which can't be used as air conditioner. Mainly, the existing plumbing is used.
        yjftsjthsd-h 1y ago
        Why wouldn't air/water be able to cool the air? It'd just output hot water instead of hot air
  - globular-toast 1y ago
    The trouble is if you just retrofit aircon with no other changes you actually increase the outside temperature, possibly by more than 2 degrees[0]. This has worried me since I was a child. If everyone has AC it's a race to the bottom as it gets warmer and warmer, AC has to work harder, using more and more energy etc. You end up with hellhole cities where you can't be outside at all. It's simply not sustainable. We have to do other things like having green spaces, less tarmac, shutters on windows etc. [0] https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/08/30/fact-check-is-air-conditioning-making-cities-hotter https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/08/30/fact-check-is-air-...
    - rightbyte 1y ago
      Oh that is interesting. A greek guy I know said to me that cities 'radiated heat' some years ago and I kinda didn't believe him. Localised to alleyways etc the effect can probably be even worse.
      - mike_hearn 1y ago
        The urban heat island effect isn't to do with AC specifically. It's a mix of tarmac absorbing heat during the day then re-radiating it at night, a higher population density and a higher density of machinery. The night time re-radiation has the effect of bringing the min closer to the max readings, and so making it look as if temperatures are going up, even when max temps aren't changing much. The same effect can't be seen in rural places where there's less tarmac.
        globular-toast 1y ago
        AC is an example of "more machinery", so it does contribute. But I would also argue that the redistribution of heat is itself harmful and AC is a horrible tragedy of the commons solution to the urban heat island problem.
  - AlecSchueler 1y ago
    The more people install air conditioning the more energy we use, warming up the world even more, requiring even more AC units to be activated.
    - rjmunro 1y ago
      In terms of energy supply, air conditioning works pretty well with solar power. Normally hot days and sunny days are very correlated. If you are worried about the local heat generated by the air conditioners themselves, there are new coatings and panels that can radiate that heat directly to space, for example https://www.skycoolsystems.com/ https://www.skycoolsystems.com/. Also just removing a few parking spaces and replacing them with green space can help at a city wide level.
      - AlecSchueler 1y ago
        Yep, in an ideal world solar makes it not so bad and we're transitioning there. But my country (the Netherlands) is still about 50% powered by dirty sources and the energy transition is happening too slowly to avert the climate crisis, so let's not wave it away with solar promises. That's also only the operation of the things, their production and transport involves global chains of mining, shipping etc. and all the solar panels would be the same on top of that
    - ponector 1y ago
      Energy used in private AC is very small fraction of total bill and has no meaningful effect on the climate. Compare with data centers running entirely off grid, powered by tens of massive gas generators.
      - AlecSchueler 1y ago
        You're looking at the figures today, not the figures when every house in the country has to install it.
        ponector 1y ago
  - DougN7 1y ago
    In my experience most homes/apartments in Europe are stone/cement/brick and many were built before central heating/cooling was a thing. US homes being much newer, and built from wood, means getting air ducts in isn’t such a huge deal. So European homes often heat ultimately via hot water pipes (radiators, heated floors), etc but there isn’t a way to cool using the same mechanisms. Of course this is a huge generalization.
- thebruce87m 1y ago
  > Still, it's hot. My daughter's school actually suggested parents keep their kids home today, as they aren't equipped for this heat. Reminds me of when my colleague from Sri Lanka said that kids there will be sent home if the temperature drops below 16C. That’s a decent summers day in Scotland. We struggled to sleep last night after a sweltering 21C yesterday. I think I might burst into flames at 42C.
  - DanielHB 1y ago
    It is hard to explain to people who don't live in tropical countries, but 16C in Scotland means the sun is still up giving some radiating heat when it directly hits you or the building you are on. 16C in a tropical country means the sun is completely blocked and no direct heat coming towards you. Think more like 16C at night feels colder than 16C during the day. The temperature in official thermometers is the overall air temperature in the shade which don't benefit from this overall radiating heat. And of course humidity is also a huge part of how cold it feels. Which is why temperatures around 0C feel colder than -5C (because below zero the air humidity goes away).
    - votepaunchy 1y ago
      > because below zero the air humidity goes away You need much colder for this to happen. Google says: Water vapor, even in freezing temperatures, doesn't instantly freeze into ice unless it comes into contact with a surface or the temperature drops extremely low (around -40°C).
      - user____name 1y ago
        I think what they meant is humidity is lower when freezing, not necessarily zero.
        bryanlarsen 1y ago
        The relative humidity goes up when the temperature goes down. The water doesn't go anywhere, but the ability of the air to hold it drops, so the relative humidity rises until it hits 100% and water starts precipitating out. The relative humidity of the air in winter at it's coldest point during a cycle is almost always 100% where I live.
- rossant 1y ago
  Same. That's what I'll do.
orwin 1y ago
I was in southern Francz last week. There the heatwave (consistent 34C+ in the day, consistent 24+ during the night) started exactly two weeks ago with a single interruption last Wednesday night (which was nice but caused the wind to fall on Thursday making sailing boring). Since I left last Saturday, the heat got close to 43 and birds are falling from their nest, knocked out by the high temperature. Good luck to anyone there.
- a-french-anon 1y ago
  You got out at the right time, we're currently like this here: https://www.meteociel.fr/previsions-arome-1h/12179/montpellier.htm https://www.meteociel.fr/previsions-arome-1h/12179/montpelli... Night really is the worst, I don't care about the day, personally.
tempera 1y ago
Normal summer weather is used to install anxiety in the minds of the populace, so they will easier accept future draconian measures.
- moeffju 1y ago
  There is nothing normal about this, as you can easily verify by looking at recorded weather history.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - moi2388 1y ago
    I don’t know what you’re talking about. I’ve had these temperatures in summer as a child in the same location I am now.
    - notTooFarGone 1y ago
      Oh yes 2003, how about a 2003 every year? I'd expect a bit more statistical knowledge here...
      - moi2388 1y ago
        In my country we’re experiencing the first heatwave in more than 3 years.. Used to be every 2 years in my childhood. Both the duration and average and maximum temperature are all lower now compared to my childhood. Is that enough statistics for extreme temperatures not being that extreme compared to previously? At least in my country?
  - mslansn 1y ago
    It would seem foolish to trust the temperature records from the same people who want to install draconian measures using temperatures as an excuse.
    - 1y ago
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
treetalker 1y ago
Currently in Versailles in a hotel without air conditioning (albeit on the shady north side of the building). During the day it's not so bad with the windows closed, drapes drawn, and tabletop fan. (Speaking as someone accustomed to Florida temperatures, humidity, and widely available air conditioning.) In the evening, say 19h00, the sun is low and it's quite pleasant out. ("It's a dry heat," as we say!) I always forget how far north Paris and Versailles are: the sky still has some light past 22h30 this time of year. Keep cool and stay safe, mes amis !
- DanielHB 1y ago
  The main problem with high temperatures in cold countries is that most homes have a lot of insulation which keeps the heat accumulated during the day trapped in the home well into the night. In warmer countries that heat usually dissipates by the time you go to sleep because the homes don't have as much insulation.
rand0m4r 1y ago
As someone living in Spain, this is the only time of the year when I'm happy to go to the office. Yet, I think people need a tutorial on how to use the AC: it's 38ºC outside, but in my cubicle it's about 19ºC - I would be OK with 26ºC.
- showsover 1y ago
  19 degrees is crazy, I thought that offices and public buildings were limited to 25 degrees? EDIT: I didn't search too long but I found an article from a few years ago talking about the limit being 27 degrees. https://www.elnacional.cat/es/economia/sanchez-limita-aire-acondicionado-27-grados-comercios-transporte-calefaccion-19_794664_102.html https://www.elnacional.cat/es/economia/sanchez-limita-aire-a...
  - rand0m4r 1y ago
    you are absolutely correct, the problem is that some people don't care at all (I'm working in a WeWork office)
aaron695 1y ago
[dead]
mensetmanusman 1y ago
If policy makers were smarter technocrats, they would know that passive cooling film technology exists now and can cool surfaces below ambient by rejecting sunlight and having high thermal emissivity (unlike metallic reflectors). Add this everywhere to reduce A/C and lower urban heat island effects. It’s basically performs optically like snow. Paint doesn’t work because it gets dirty too fast, films can incorporate anti-fouling tech. Delivery companies are already putting these on their vehicles (look at the top of UPS trucks in the US, if there is a giant white rectangle, that’s it).
- ozmodiar 1y ago
  As someone who lives in Canada, I can say "performs optically like snow" can be completely blinding. Still, it seems like a good idea as long as we're careful about sight lines.
- nargek 1y ago
  AFAIK the top of UPS trucks are mainly translucent just to allow light to shine through, so that you don't have to light up the cargo part of the truck. The cooling part doesn't seems too effective.
vinni2 1y ago
It’s ironic that the hotter Europe gets, the wetter and colder Norway gets in summer.

42 points by julosflb 1y ago

Thankfully in Paris it doesn't look like we're going to get it as bad as was expected. It's "only" going to be 100f/38c today and 90f/32c tomorrow. Hot, but considering that just a few days ago my weather app predicted 107f/42c, it's welcome. Still, it's hot. My daughter's school actually suggested parents keep their kids home today, as they aren't equipped for this heat.

sandspar 1y ago
How common is air conditioning in Paris? What proportion of homes have air conditioning, either built-in or portable? How about businesses? Does Paris have sufficient "cooling stations", as in, large, air conditioned, public-friendly businesses like malls or community centers?
- JustFinishedBSG 1y ago
  Very uncommon / inexistant in private appartements except I guess if you live in a very very very upscale appartement. Installing AC is actually not allowed in many places ( because of urbanism laws) Only possible AC is those single hose mobile units which are wildly inefficient and close to useless while burning energy.
  - xoa 1y ago
    >Only possible AC is those single hose mobile units which are wildly inefficient and close to useless while burning energy. FWIW at least in the US (and I can't imagine they wouldn't be available worldwide) there are also dual hose portable AC units which can perform fairly decently, at least far better than single hose. I needed to use one for awhile at an old office (I think it was a Whynter model) and it was effective. There are also more exotic portable units that use water as the fluid dump, but that requires having a sufficient water source that you can utilize, and probably isn't going to be doable in a residential unit in a city. We had a couple at the chemistry lab I worked in 10-15 years ago that hooked into the lab water lines.
- cpa 1y ago
  Fairly uncommon in homes (although I wouldn't go as far as the sibling comment that it's only for very upscale homes—I know plenty of people who are getting equipped). Because the unit has to be outside, there are many historic buildings where you can't install AC. It's less of a problem in other parts of France. Businesses open to the public and offices almost universally have AC, though, except maybe for mom and pop shops, so you definitely can go to the mall or the movies to get some fresh air.
  - dustincoates 1y ago
    Some offices are better than other when it comes up AC. My last regular office would turn the AC off for the entire floor if any windows were open. But then the meeting rooms would get stuffy, and people would open windows, so there effectively was no AC. The best place to go during weather like this is actually a grocery store: Picard, which only sells frozen food and so you get the escaped chill from the freezers.
  - mslansn 1y ago
    Paris has many historic buildings, but it’s not like the average Joe lives in any of those.
  - bryanlarsen 1y ago
    Not the answer I expected. From what I understand many homes in Germany have gotten air conditioning "for free" recently. They installed heat pumps due to incentives, which can run as air conditioners in the summer.
    - chopin 1y ago
      Most heat pumps in Germany are air to water which can't be used as air conditioner. Mainly, the existing plumbing is used.
      - yjftsjthsd-h 1y ago
        Why wouldn't air/water be able to cool the air? It'd just output hot water instead of hot air
- globular-toast 1y ago
  The trouble is if you just retrofit aircon with no other changes you actually increase the outside temperature, possibly by more than 2 degrees[0]. This has worried me since I was a child. If everyone has AC it's a race to the bottom as it gets warmer and warmer, AC has to work harder, using more and more energy etc. You end up with hellhole cities where you can't be outside at all. It's simply not sustainable. We have to do other things like having green spaces, less tarmac, shutters on windows etc. [0] https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/08/30/fact-check-is-air-conditioning-making-cities-hotter https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/08/30/fact-check-is-air-...
  - rightbyte 1y ago
    Oh that is interesting. A greek guy I know said to me that cities 'radiated heat' some years ago and I kinda didn't believe him. Localised to alleyways etc the effect can probably be even worse.
    - mike_hearn 1y ago
      The urban heat island effect isn't to do with AC specifically. It's a mix of tarmac absorbing heat during the day then re-radiating it at night, a higher population density and a higher density of machinery. The night time re-radiation has the effect of bringing the min closer to the max readings, and so making it look as if temperatures are going up, even when max temps aren't changing much. The same effect can't be seen in rural places where there's less tarmac.
      - globular-toast 1y ago
        AC is an example of "more machinery", so it does contribute. But I would also argue that the redistribution of heat is itself harmful and AC is a horrible tragedy of the commons solution to the urban heat island problem.
- AlecSchueler 1y ago
  The more people install air conditioning the more energy we use, warming up the world even more, requiring even more AC units to be activated.
  - rjmunro 1y ago
    In terms of energy supply, air conditioning works pretty well with solar power. Normally hot days and sunny days are very correlated. If you are worried about the local heat generated by the air conditioners themselves, there are new coatings and panels that can radiate that heat directly to space, for example https://www.skycoolsystems.com/ https://www.skycoolsystems.com/. Also just removing a few parking spaces and replacing them with green space can help at a city wide level.
    - AlecSchueler 1y ago
      Yep, in an ideal world solar makes it not so bad and we're transitioning there. But my country (the Netherlands) is still about 50% powered by dirty sources and the energy transition is happening too slowly to avert the climate crisis, so let's not wave it away with solar promises. That's also only the operation of the things, their production and transport involves global chains of mining, shipping etc. and all the solar panels would be the same on top of that
  - ponector 1y ago
    Energy used in private AC is very small fraction of total bill and has no meaningful effect on the climate. Compare with data centers running entirely off grid, powered by tens of massive gas generators.
    - AlecSchueler 1y ago
      You're looking at the figures today, not the figures when every house in the country has to install it.
      - ponector 1y ago
- DougN7 1y ago
  In my experience most homes/apartments in Europe are stone/cement/brick and many were built before central heating/cooling was a thing. US homes being much newer, and built from wood, means getting air ducts in isn’t such a huge deal. So European homes often heat ultimately via hot water pipes (radiators, heated floors), etc but there isn’t a way to cool using the same mechanisms. Of course this is a huge generalization.
thebruce87m 1y ago
> Still, it's hot. My daughter's school actually suggested parents keep their kids home today, as they aren't equipped for this heat. Reminds me of when my colleague from Sri Lanka said that kids there will be sent home if the temperature drops below 16C. That’s a decent summers day in Scotland. We struggled to sleep last night after a sweltering 21C yesterday. I think I might burst into flames at 42C.
- DanielHB 1y ago
  It is hard to explain to people who don't live in tropical countries, but 16C in Scotland means the sun is still up giving some radiating heat when it directly hits you or the building you are on. 16C in a tropical country means the sun is completely blocked and no direct heat coming towards you. Think more like 16C at night feels colder than 16C during the day. The temperature in official thermometers is the overall air temperature in the shade which don't benefit from this overall radiating heat. And of course humidity is also a huge part of how cold it feels. Which is why temperatures around 0C feel colder than -5C (because below zero the air humidity goes away).
  - votepaunchy 1y ago
    > because below zero the air humidity goes away You need much colder for this to happen. Google says: Water vapor, even in freezing temperatures, doesn't instantly freeze into ice unless it comes into contact with a surface or the temperature drops extremely low (around -40°C).
    - user____name 1y ago
      I think what they meant is humidity is lower when freezing, not necessarily zero.
      - bryanlarsen 1y ago
        The relative humidity goes up when the temperature goes down. The water doesn't go anywhere, but the ability of the air to hold it drops, so the relative humidity rises until it hits 100% and water starts precipitating out. The relative humidity of the air in winter at it's coldest point during a cycle is almost always 100% where I live.
rossant 1y ago
Same. That's what I'll do.

orwin 1y ago

I was in southern Francz last week. There the heatwave (consistent 34C+ in the day, consistent 24+ during the night) started exactly two weeks ago with a single interruption last Wednesday night (which was nice but caused the wind to fall on Thursday making sailing boring). Since I left last Saturday, the heat got close to 43 and birds are falling from their nest, knocked out by the high temperature. Good luck to anyone there.

a-french-anon 1y ago
You got out at the right time, we're currently like this here: https://www.meteociel.fr/previsions-arome-1h/12179/montpellier.htm https://www.meteociel.fr/previsions-arome-1h/12179/montpelli... Night really is the worst, I don't care about the day, personally.

tempera 1y ago

Normal summer weather is used to install anxiety in the minds of the populace, so they will easier accept future draconian measures.

moeffju 1y ago
There is nothing normal about this, as you can easily verify by looking at recorded weather history.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- moi2388 1y ago
  I don’t know what you’re talking about. I’ve had these temperatures in summer as a child in the same location I am now.
  - notTooFarGone 1y ago
    Oh yes 2003, how about a 2003 every year? I'd expect a bit more statistical knowledge here...
    - moi2388 1y ago
      In my country we’re experiencing the first heatwave in more than 3 years.. Used to be every 2 years in my childhood. Both the duration and average and maximum temperature are all lower now compared to my childhood. Is that enough statistics for extreme temperatures not being that extreme compared to previously? At least in my country?
- mslansn 1y ago
  It would seem foolish to trust the temperature records from the same people who want to install draconian measures using temperatures as an excuse.
  - 1y ago

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

treetalker 1y ago

Currently in Versailles in a hotel without air conditioning (albeit on the shady north side of the building). During the day it's not so bad with the windows closed, drapes drawn, and tabletop fan. (Speaking as someone accustomed to Florida temperatures, humidity, and widely available air conditioning.) In the evening, say 19h00, the sun is low and it's quite pleasant out. ("It's a dry heat," as we say!) I always forget how far north Paris and Versailles are: the sky still has some light past 22h30 this time of year. Keep cool and stay safe, mes amis !

DanielHB 1y ago
The main problem with high temperatures in cold countries is that most homes have a lot of insulation which keeps the heat accumulated during the day trapped in the home well into the night. In warmer countries that heat usually dissipates by the time you go to sleep because the homes don't have as much insulation.

rand0m4r 1y ago

As someone living in Spain, this is the only time of the year when I'm happy to go to the office. Yet, I think people need a tutorial on how to use the AC: it's 38ºC outside, but in my cubicle it's about 19ºC - I would be OK with 26ºC.

showsover 1y ago
19 degrees is crazy, I thought that offices and public buildings were limited to 25 degrees? EDIT: I didn't search too long but I found an article from a few years ago talking about the limit being 27 degrees. https://www.elnacional.cat/es/economia/sanchez-limita-aire-acondicionado-27-grados-comercios-transporte-calefaccion-19_794664_102.html https://www.elnacional.cat/es/economia/sanchez-limita-aire-a...
- rand0m4r 1y ago
  you are absolutely correct, the problem is that some people don't care at all (I'm working in a WeWork office)

aaron695 1y ago

[dead]

mensetmanusman 1y ago

If policy makers were smarter technocrats, they would know that passive cooling film technology exists now and can cool surfaces below ambient by rejecting sunlight and having high thermal emissivity (unlike metallic reflectors). Add this everywhere to reduce A/C and lower urban heat island effects. It’s basically performs optically like snow. Paint doesn’t work because it gets dirty too fast, films can incorporate anti-fouling tech. Delivery companies are already putting these on their vehicles (look at the top of UPS trucks in the US, if there is a giant white rectangle, that’s it).

ozmodiar 1y ago
As someone who lives in Canada, I can say "performs optically like snow" can be completely blinding. Still, it seems like a good idea as long as we're careful about sight lines.
nargek 1y ago
AFAIK the top of UPS trucks are mainly translucent just to allow light to shine through, so that you don't have to light up the cargo part of the truck. The cooling part doesn't seems too effective.

vinni2 1y ago

It’s ironic that the hotter Europe gets, the wetter and colder Norway gets in summer.