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Completely unmentioned: Chinese EVs are $10k worldwide except USA. https://gmauthority.com/blog/2024/08/2025-byd-seagull-ev-starts-at-under-10k-usd/ https://gm
by 1970-01-01 1y ago
Completely unmentioned: Chinese EVs are $10k worldwide except USA.
https://gmauthority.com/blog/2024/08/2025-byd-seagull-ev-starts-at-under-10k-usd/ https://gmauthority.com/blog/2024/08/2025-byd-seagull-ev-sta...
- vel0city 1y agoUntrue. Those same "under $10k" BYD models are ~$20,000USD in Mexico.
- moooo99 1y agoFirst of all, that statement is entirely untrue. These cars aren‘t 10k in most (all?) of the EU for example. As far as I know, these 10k cars are really only a thing in china and some SEA markets (I am not sure if these cars are really that cheap adjusted to purchasing power in these markets). Beyond that, the chinese EV brands are in market capture mode right now. The competition is cut throat and the margins are extremely thin. It‘s a market skimming strategy that will presumably be a last man standing scenario. If the winner(s) are decided, prices will definitely not remain as low as they are right now in some places.
- sillystu04 1y ago> Beyond that, the chinese EV brands are in market capture mode right now. The competition is cut throat and the margins are extremely thin. BYD is profitable. Admittedly that's more of an exception than a rule for Chinese EV brands, but BYD is also the most important. > It‘s a market skimming strategy that will presumably be a last man standing scenario. If the winner(s) are decided, prices will definitely not remain as low as they are right now in some places. Even if most of the brands disappear we're very unlikely to get to an n=1 monopoly scenario. Even a couple dozen or so companies competing in the EV space should prevent margins from getting too high. In the olden days the ICE industry was at times run by fewer than 10 companies per country, that was enough competition to prevent consumers getting too screwed by pricing.
- tpm 1y ago> BYD is profitable. Yes but also heavily indebted: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-01-19/byd-s-supply-chain-financing-masks-ballooning-debt-gmt-says https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-01-19/byd-s-sup...
- WiSaGaN 1y agoCan you name one example of a consumer product that China initially sold affordably to gain market share and then later raised prices?
- safety1st 1y agoAmerican expat living in Thailand reporting in. I think the cheapest car in Thailand is the 2025 Suzuki Celerio which is a 5 seater hatchback. At the current exchange rate it's $9,800 brand new. Of course this figure is not adjusted for purchasing power (so what?). We have BYDs here and I haven't really looked at them but pretty sure a few are under $25K. If Americans can't get a new car for under $25,000 but Southeast Asia can get them for under $10K, something is wrong. If the entry level car is 2.5x more expensive in America it means Americans are getting fleeced. I haven't lived in America for a long time and I feel like this makes it very obvious to me when the BS machine over there is in full spew. Free markets drive consumer prices down to the cost of production. I don't know the auto industry in detail but it is an extensively documented fact that America has few free markets left, and they've been replaced by cartels - each industry has a couple of crooks at the top who rotate between private and public jobs. On the public side they come up with excuses to not enforce the anti-trust laws that are on the books, and they add regulations that raise the cost of business. On the private side they come up with ways to improve margins which usually involve fucking consumers. Let's not make excuses for the criminals. America needs free markets and cheaper cars. Elite lawlessness is the cause of increased costs in America.
- mlinhares 1y agoThere are market dynamics here as well, Americans don’t want to buy a car like the Celerio, most brands have equivalent cars selling in developing countries and Europe but they don’t bring them here because Americans mostly want to buy SUVs.
- slt2021 1y agothe cost to produce SUV is not significantly higher than sedan, but prices and margins are higher. so the American customer is getting fleeced on SUVs much worse than on sedan, because SUV margins are higher (and thats why OEMs are switching to SUVs)
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- diggan 1y agoThe Seagull (aka "Dolphin Surf" in other countries) seems to cost 18560 GBP in the UK, or 11.780€ in Spain. Haven't checked out other countries, but clearly "Chinese EVs (BYD Seagull/Dolphin Surf/Dolphin Mini) are $10k worldwide except USA" isn't 100% correct. Seems fine to leave something like that unmentioned, as a quick check reveals it not to be true at all.
- contrarian1234 1y agobut I'm guessing those are post tax prices .. While in the US prices are pre-tax So if you saw the pretax figures it'd probably be true
- diggan 1y ago> So if you saw the pretax figures it'd probably be true But why would I look at the pretax figures? Who would look at that, unless you're doing a business purchase? It basically has no meaning for the average person since they'll never buy anything without the taxes anyways.
- contrarian1234 1y agoBecause the title of the article is stated in pretax figures.... Apples to Oranges You might as well add in the lifetime maintenance costs while you're at it (would be very useful to know technically ... Maybe BYD makes it up on repairs or something)
- diggan 1y ago> Because the title of the article is stated in pretax figures.... How do you know that? Neither the submission article (hubspot) or the article referenced by the parent comment (gmauthority) mentions anything about the figures being pretax or posttax, why would they default to talking a price no one else would use? > You might as well add in the lifetime maintenance costs while you're at it If that's something you have to pay up front to get the car, then yeah, add it to whatever figures you reference. But I don't think that's how it works normally, so how is that the same thing at all?
- infecto 1y agoCompletely untrue. Maybe in China or SEA but not for the rest of the world. Chinese manufacturers have come a long way and I wish I could buy one in the US but they are also pricing at razor thin margins to starve out competition. Even in Vietnam the Dolphin is $25k
- immibis 1y agoThat's just competition doing its job. The rate of profit, just like every other price, is supposed to fall to the minimum sustsinable level in capitalism.
- mattmaroon 1y agoBut it’s well below the minimum sustainable level due to Chinese government subsidies.
- LastTrain 1y agoWait until you hear about US federal and state automaker subsidies!
- reliabilityguy 1y agoCan you provide some information on this, please?
- infecto 1y agoState level tax subsidies. Federal, things like a the chicken tax which imposes import taxes in categories like small trucks. Easy top of mind ones.
- mattmaroon 1y agoThe former doesn’t exist in any meaningful sense and the latter is not a subsidy, it’s a tariff. It doesn’t make American cars cheaper elsewhere, it makes foreign cars more expensive here. Other nations aren’t at risk of losing their auto industries domestically because of either.
- chvid 1y agoThey get extra tariffs as well in Europe. Some western countries allow Chinese evs without extra tariffs (Australia and the UK) but in general larger Chinese cars seem to sell better.
- nisegami 1y agoChinese EVs start at like $300k in my country, which is roughly $44k USD. Local dealers are unbelievably greedy.
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- reliabilityguy 1y agoThey are subsidized by Chinese government like the Toyota in the 70s by the Japanese.
- kube-system 1y agoas are US automakers.
- reliabilityguy 1y agoCan you provide any info on that? I’m curious.
- kube-system 1y agoThey actually receive some of the highest subsidies of any companies in the US. Some examples include: * Politicians often give automakers often receive state and local tax breaks in exchange for constructing plants in their jurisdictions * Federal grants and incentives for clean energy initiatives * The infamous 2008 bailouts, where for example, the US Treasury bought enough GM shares that they became the controlling shareholder, effectively nationalizing the automaker.
- invalidusernam3 1y agoBYD Seagull is $14k in Czech Republic.