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I remember the first time I went into an Apple Store. I was looking at a 17” PowerBook, salivating at the screen and performance but struggling with justifying

I remember the first time I went into an Apple Store. I was looking at a 17” PowerBook, salivating at the screen and performance but struggling with justifying the price tag. An incredibly nice lady walked up to me and asked if I had any questions. I told her I was thinking it over as it was a large purchase. She beamed and said “Of course, that’s totally understandable. In fact it takes on average 3 visits to an Apple Store before making a purchase”. It was the smartest, nicest, most low key way of saying don’t feel pressure…you’ll be coming back, and then you’ll buy the machine you’ve always wanted. Very on brand. And surprisingly still not really copied by others.

emsign 1y ago
That comes off as arrogant as a corporate face can be: Oh, don't worry darling. You will be back for more and we know each time your cravings will be stronger until you finally give in. See you and have a lovely day.
piperswe 1y ago
Porsche has the same philosophy, from what I've heard and experienced
- leakycap 1y ago
  The Cayenne is one of the only SUVs I looked at where the sales experience made me more interested in the brand & left me with a good impression of the dealer. I hadn't seriously considered a Porsche until I learned they make niche parts for cars for decades - like interior bits and trim that most brands stop making/carrying after about 10 years. You can get parts for a 2002-2016 Cayenne at the dealer, but even though it shares a TON of components with the 2002-2016 Touareg you won't be able to get the parts from VW that you can still source from Porsche for those same years.
  - kalleboo 1y ago
    They even make retrofit CarPlay head units designed to fit in their classic cars both physically and design-wise https://9to5mac.com/2020/04/23/porsche-carplay-classic-head-units/ https://9to5mac.com/2020/04/23/porsche-carplay-classic-head-...
  - rob74 1y ago
    Well, for most other >10 year old cars, if all else fails you would be able to get parts scavenged from the junkyard, but I guess that doesn't work as well for Porsche (first because there's not a lot of them and second because they tend to be used longer).
    - leakycap 1y ago
      This is true, but it seems a lot of the manufacturers stop making interior parts, trim, electronics, etc. for cars older than 8-10 years. Need a seat, mirror, air conditioner vent trim, logo for your trunk, floormats? No luck with most manufacturer... and these are the kind of parts the 3rd party supplier market doesn't even attempt to do. I still have a warranty (factory) on my other German car, but even though it is only 7 years old they do not stock or make a replacement for the hybrid battery. So even though it failed and is under warranty, the manufacturer cannot fix it. This has been ongoing over 11 months now; apparently it wouldn't happen with Porsche
  - xeonmc 1y ago
    as exemplified by this commercial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8-9oIq1hxw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8-9oIq1hxw
  - kjkjadksj 1y ago
    It is like that with a lot of brands tbh. Some dealers specialize more in the parts market and have their own sites or ebay stores. In my experience with acura the same is true where you could get 20 year old random parts.
- pbronez 1y ago
  The only time I went into a Porsche dealership was when I was shopping for a BEV and wanted to check out the Taycan. I was able to test drive it, but then the dealership put on a hard sell. I wasn't convinced the vehicle was worth the money; they thought marital advice was the appropriate counter-message. No thanks.
paxys 1y ago
It isn't copied by other consumer electronics companies because none of them have the brand value of Apple. Microsoft tried the model with its own chain of stores but failed pretty quickly. Most tech is better suited for Best Buy-like megastores where shoppers can browse and try a bunch of products and brands in one go. And for phones (at least in America) most people still prefer to go to their carrier store. Go outside of tech though and the Apple Store experience is commonplace. Apple itself copied the concept directly from high end fashion houses.
- dagmx 1y ago
  Microsoft stores were abysmal. They felt like Best Buy without the convenience somehow. I went in to try the (then new) Surface Studio (the drafting table like AIO) and they couldn’t find the peripheral knob. But it kept triggering, but it turned out employees would mess around with customers by spinning it while they used it. Of course that’s just one store, but I walked by several and they all just looked depressing inside. Layouts felt about as poorly planned as a Best Buy or staples display, and even things as simple as lighting was harsher. It’s just not as simple as making a store. The store has to provide the right vibe, and Microsoft don’t understand vibe.
  - leakycap 1y ago
    I expected they'd do better at the products with their own name on them, but I the MS Store near me didn't stock even most standard Surface devices Plus, IIRC their return policy on what they had in stock was worse than other PC retailers
    - sheiyei 1y ago
      You can trust Microsoft to make anything they touch suck. This has been a constant for decades at this point. Please give me contradicting examples, if they exist.
      - leakycap 1y ago
        My second job was somehow a cool job for a remote Microsoft office. The people I worked with REALLY tried and cared to deliver what the bigger MS office asked for, but the distributed nature of the organization combined with a lack of unifying vision made delivering something great almost impossible. Even with dedication, the result would be half-baked Wizards and ASP "solutions" that met the punch list requirements
mrheosuper 1y ago
i wonder if it's true anymore. Recently i've bought the new iphone, it's not as expensive as the high end macbook, but still, not a small amount of money. I got to the store, asked for the phone, finalized my purchase and got out, all in 15 min i guess. No second guess, no cold feet, because i had been researching smartphones for years before going with it, i knew what i would get and what i wouldn't. Back in the day you would indeed need to go to the store to know what you were getting.
- whstl 1y ago
  If you know how iPhones work then online research is enough, but if you haven’t played with one it makes sense to use it at the store as research, or even if you’re just curious. Same for Android, I wouldn’t buy one without testing before, for example. Also: The Microsoft and Chromebook displays at electronics chain-stores have seriously stepped up their game in the last 10 years or so. Before that it was a shitshow, with keyboards missing keys and the OS crashing on demo devices that would be otherwise perfectly usable machines.
  - sheiyei 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - leakycap 1y ago
      What are you comparing this to? I have a slew of phones near me and when I pick up an Android device it usually feels like a stuttery mess multiple times in regular use, even compared to a basic prepaid iPhone SE from 2022 which might only be 60Hz but doesn't randomly jerk around and freeze like every 120Hz Android seems to do
    - vladvasiliu 1y ago
      I'm baffled by your comment. I specifically recall getting some new Samsungs at work two years ago, so I got one to play with for a little. I was shocked by how janky scrolling felt. Just going through the android settings screen, there were "hiccups" and there was a clear lag between my finger moving and the screen moving. My iphone 7 felt so much smoother, although much older and "crufty", as opposed to the Samsung being brand new and "untouched". It was a then-current mid-range model, don't remember which one specifically.
bombcar 1y ago
It was (is?) a really good way of letting you know you could hang around and play with the machines - at the time Computer City and similar places (which is what Apple was really trying to compensate for, many of them had few or no Macs at all) would heavily imply you should "buy or leave" if you stayed too long.
- leakycap 1y ago
  Circuit City was the worst. I miss most computer stores, but I felt a personal sense of satisfaction when they went under.
fennecfoxy 1y ago
I remember the first time I tried to buy something at an Apple store. Usually avoid 'em cause I don't like Apple as a company, but I do like their laptops. I'd decided an M3 air was gonna be perfect as a general use laptop. Walked into the store, waited 30 minutes for one of their "friendly, professional staff" to come up & help me, making eye contact, etc. Eventually I had to walk up to one of them standing there and tell them I wanted to buy something. Then it turns out they didn't even have one in stock...in their flagship London store... Literally I wanted to walk in, pay immediately & walk out. I already knew exactly what I wanted. I don't know why people laude the "Apple experience".
- esskay 1y ago
  Their flagship shops (Especially London) are really not places you go to buy on a whim, it's why they have a booking and collection process - yes it might suck but its by far one of their busiest shops.
  - fennecfoxy 1y ago
    Well it was more the store was full of teenagers and kids generally fucking around while their parents browsed. Plenty of those parents were getting attended to by staff - even if they had bookings, it takes a spare staff member (of which there were many just milling around) one minute to ask me what I'm here for and recommend I make a booking if I had a complex request. The conversation literally would have been "can I help you?" "Yes I want a space grey m3 macbook air, 16gb ram 512gb ssd, I will pay for it right now and then leave this terrible place tyvm". With the laptop on-hand the purchasing process would've taken as little time as it took for them to ram it into pos and for my phone nfc to pay.
    - esskay 1y ago
      Out of interest how long ago was this? The Covent Garden and Oxford street ones literally have a queue line for pickups and purchases over in the far right. Not 100% sure how long Oxford street has had theirs (at least since Xmas) but I know for a fact it's existed at Covent Garden's since day one as I used to work there.
SwtCyber 1y ago
They've always nailed that balance of making the store feel like a chill hangout and a temple of aspiration
nerdjon 1y ago
I will never forget one of my earliest Apple purchases being a macbook pro. I was convinced that I needed a certain specd machine that was more expensive. The person I was working with instead of just accepting what I thought I wanted asked me about what I was doing with it and really encouraged the lower cost machine. I ended up getting the lower cost machine and it was still great. It was still a Macbook pro. I don't remember what the spec difference was now but I do remember thinking back and realizing it was right. The higher specs really would not have added anymore life to the machine so it wasn't like I upgraded sooner than I would have otherwise. Complete opposite of nearly any other tech purchasing process, always seem to want me to spend as much money as possible.
unethical_ban 1y ago
Yesterday, I went into Best Buy with a friend to look at soundbars. As we were looking, a young man came up and said "Do you have any questions?" - I said we were just browsing, and he smiled and that was that. He came back a few minutes later when he saw me scanning a QR code on the price tag. Odd since I signaled I didn't need anything. He asked again, "Anything you need help with?" - This time I was still wishy-washy but said "Yeah, I'm checking the inputs on this soundbar to see if it has 3.5mm and how many HDMI ports it has". And without asking any more details, he smiled and said "Alright!" and walked away. We were completely baffled.
- tpmoney 1y ago
  Assuming it wasn’t just following up in case you really did need some help now, probably a “loss prevention” technique. Retail folks are almost never going to accuse someone of stealing and “following around a hovering” behavior is discouraged. Instead the recommendation is to keep an eye on someone you suspect to be shady and just swing by every couple of minutes to “check on them”. Even if you can’t see what they’re doing every moment, the constant reminders that you know they’re there and that you might see them is often enough to discourage theft. Works reasonably well. When I worked retail we had a person whose MO was to come into the store, browse the expensive headphones, take one off the shelf and put it down on the floor with their book bag while they looked at something else. After about 10 or 15 minutes they’d pick up the book bag and sweep the headphones inside as they were standing up and then walk out the door. If you stopped by while they were looking at the other thing and asked them if they needed any help with finding some accessories for the headphones or just offering to “hold it at the register” for them, they would wind up putting them back (or handing them to you and tell you they changed their mind) and leaving.
tpmoney 1y ago
This was definitely the way Apple (used to) teach their employees. The 3 big “rules” were 1) No upsell pressure. We all got a flat hourly wage, so whether you bought the 5k computer or the 1k computer, we earned the same money. So focus on selling the customer the right computer for their needs. 2) It’s better to send the customer somewhere else or let them walk out the door than it is to sell them something that won’t work for them. Sort of a corollary to the first item, but the idea was more than anything, customers should feel like they could trust us. And if building that trust meant telling the customer “we do have USB cables, but the Belkin one we’re selling for $25 is no better for your printer than the generic brand Best Buy is selling across the street” then that’s what we did. A customer who trusts us is a customer that comes back, and a customer that comes back is a customer that buys more things. Sure they may not buy the USB cable today, but next month when they’re buying some other thing for their computer, they might just pick up some other cable or item that they might be able to get cheaper elsewhere, but they’re already here, we have it and they trust us to stock quality items. 3) Never ever make something up or guess. All the computers are fully functional and hooked up to the internet for a reason. If you don’t know the answer, tell that to the customer and take them over to a computer and look it up with them. You get a chance to demo the machine, you get a chance to let the customer try out the machine and most importantly you maintain that trust. The customer can feel confident you’re not bullshitting them, and they can feel confident in the answer you finally do reach because you looked it up together. Apple’s opposition to being anything like CompUSA or other computer retailers at the time was IMO a huge factor in making their stores as big and popular as they were and are. Unfortunately my experience by the time I left was Apple’s rapid growth meant they were hiring more and more from outside the pool of “Apple enthusiasts ” and more and more from the wider retail world. It’s really hard to “untrain” the “high pressure commission sales” mindset from folks who have needed to live off that sort of sales approach. We’d also started to see some of it come down from above in the form of tracking individual “attachment metrics” like AppleCare. Back when AppleCare didn’t have accidental damage coverage, the pressure to sell AppleCare with the product in question rather than after the fact (at the time, up to 1 year after purchase) was antithetical to their otherwise strong focus on no upsells and building trust.

emsign 1y ago

That comes off as arrogant as a corporate face can be: Oh, don't worry darling. You will be back for more and we know each time your cravings will be stronger until you finally give in. See you and have a lovely day.

piperswe 1y ago

Porsche has the same philosophy, from what I've heard and experienced

leakycap 1y ago
The Cayenne is one of the only SUVs I looked at where the sales experience made me more interested in the brand & left me with a good impression of the dealer. I hadn't seriously considered a Porsche until I learned they make niche parts for cars for decades - like interior bits and trim that most brands stop making/carrying after about 10 years. You can get parts for a 2002-2016 Cayenne at the dealer, but even though it shares a TON of components with the 2002-2016 Touareg you won't be able to get the parts from VW that you can still source from Porsche for those same years.
- kalleboo 1y ago
  They even make retrofit CarPlay head units designed to fit in their classic cars both physically and design-wise https://9to5mac.com/2020/04/23/porsche-carplay-classic-head-units/ https://9to5mac.com/2020/04/23/porsche-carplay-classic-head-...
- rob74 1y ago
  Well, for most other >10 year old cars, if all else fails you would be able to get parts scavenged from the junkyard, but I guess that doesn't work as well for Porsche (first because there's not a lot of them and second because they tend to be used longer).
  - leakycap 1y ago
    This is true, but it seems a lot of the manufacturers stop making interior parts, trim, electronics, etc. for cars older than 8-10 years. Need a seat, mirror, air conditioner vent trim, logo for your trunk, floormats? No luck with most manufacturer... and these are the kind of parts the 3rd party supplier market doesn't even attempt to do. I still have a warranty (factory) on my other German car, but even though it is only 7 years old they do not stock or make a replacement for the hybrid battery. So even though it failed and is under warranty, the manufacturer cannot fix it. This has been ongoing over 11 months now; apparently it wouldn't happen with Porsche
- xeonmc 1y ago
  as exemplified by this commercial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8-9oIq1hxw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8-9oIq1hxw
- kjkjadksj 1y ago
  It is like that with a lot of brands tbh. Some dealers specialize more in the parts market and have their own sites or ebay stores. In my experience with acura the same is true where you could get 20 year old random parts.
pbronez 1y ago
The only time I went into a Porsche dealership was when I was shopping for a BEV and wanted to check out the Taycan. I was able to test drive it, but then the dealership put on a hard sell. I wasn't convinced the vehicle was worth the money; they thought marital advice was the appropriate counter-message. No thanks.

paxys 1y ago

It isn't copied by other consumer electronics companies because none of them have the brand value of Apple. Microsoft tried the model with its own chain of stores but failed pretty quickly. Most tech is better suited for Best Buy-like megastores where shoppers can browse and try a bunch of products and brands in one go. And for phones (at least in America) most people still prefer to go to their carrier store. Go outside of tech though and the Apple Store experience is commonplace. Apple itself copied the concept directly from high end fashion houses.

dagmx 1y ago
Microsoft stores were abysmal. They felt like Best Buy without the convenience somehow. I went in to try the (then new) Surface Studio (the drafting table like AIO) and they couldn’t find the peripheral knob. But it kept triggering, but it turned out employees would mess around with customers by spinning it while they used it. Of course that’s just one store, but I walked by several and they all just looked depressing inside. Layouts felt about as poorly planned as a Best Buy or staples display, and even things as simple as lighting was harsher. It’s just not as simple as making a store. The store has to provide the right vibe, and Microsoft don’t understand vibe.
- leakycap 1y ago
  I expected they'd do better at the products with their own name on them, but I the MS Store near me didn't stock even most standard Surface devices Plus, IIRC their return policy on what they had in stock was worse than other PC retailers
  - sheiyei 1y ago
    You can trust Microsoft to make anything they touch suck. This has been a constant for decades at this point. Please give me contradicting examples, if they exist.
    - leakycap 1y ago
      My second job was somehow a cool job for a remote Microsoft office. The people I worked with REALLY tried and cared to deliver what the bigger MS office asked for, but the distributed nature of the organization combined with a lack of unifying vision made delivering something great almost impossible. Even with dedication, the result would be half-baked Wizards and ASP "solutions" that met the punch list requirements

mrheosuper 1y ago

i wonder if it's true anymore. Recently i've bought the new iphone, it's not as expensive as the high end macbook, but still, not a small amount of money. I got to the store, asked for the phone, finalized my purchase and got out, all in 15 min i guess. No second guess, no cold feet, because i had been researching smartphones for years before going with it, i knew what i would get and what i wouldn't. Back in the day you would indeed need to go to the store to know what you were getting.

whstl 1y ago
If you know how iPhones work then online research is enough, but if you haven’t played with one it makes sense to use it at the store as research, or even if you’re just curious. Same for Android, I wouldn’t buy one without testing before, for example. Also: The Microsoft and Chromebook displays at electronics chain-stores have seriously stepped up their game in the last 10 years or so. Before that it was a shitshow, with keyboards missing keys and the OS crashing on demo devices that would be otherwise perfectly usable machines.
- sheiyei 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - leakycap 1y ago
    What are you comparing this to? I have a slew of phones near me and when I pick up an Android device it usually feels like a stuttery mess multiple times in regular use, even compared to a basic prepaid iPhone SE from 2022 which might only be 60Hz but doesn't randomly jerk around and freeze like every 120Hz Android seems to do
  - vladvasiliu 1y ago
    I'm baffled by your comment. I specifically recall getting some new Samsungs at work two years ago, so I got one to play with for a little. I was shocked by how janky scrolling felt. Just going through the android settings screen, there were "hiccups" and there was a clear lag between my finger moving and the screen moving. My iphone 7 felt so much smoother, although much older and "crufty", as opposed to the Samsung being brand new and "untouched". It was a then-current mid-range model, don't remember which one specifically.

bombcar 1y ago

It was (is?) a really good way of letting you know you could hang around and play with the machines - at the time Computer City and similar places (which is what Apple was really trying to compensate for, many of them had few or no Macs at all) would heavily imply you should "buy or leave" if you stayed too long.

leakycap 1y ago
Circuit City was the worst. I miss most computer stores, but I felt a personal sense of satisfaction when they went under.

fennecfoxy 1y ago

I remember the first time I tried to buy something at an Apple store. Usually avoid 'em cause I don't like Apple as a company, but I do like their laptops. I'd decided an M3 air was gonna be perfect as a general use laptop. Walked into the store, waited 30 minutes for one of their "friendly, professional staff" to come up & help me, making eye contact, etc. Eventually I had to walk up to one of them standing there and tell them I wanted to buy something. Then it turns out they didn't even have one in stock...in their flagship London store... Literally I wanted to walk in, pay immediately & walk out. I already knew exactly what I wanted. I don't know why people laude the "Apple experience".

esskay 1y ago
Their flagship shops (Especially London) are really not places you go to buy on a whim, it's why they have a booking and collection process - yes it might suck but its by far one of their busiest shops.
- fennecfoxy 1y ago
  Well it was more the store was full of teenagers and kids generally fucking around while their parents browsed. Plenty of those parents were getting attended to by staff - even if they had bookings, it takes a spare staff member (of which there were many just milling around) one minute to ask me what I'm here for and recommend I make a booking if I had a complex request. The conversation literally would have been "can I help you?" "Yes I want a space grey m3 macbook air, 16gb ram 512gb ssd, I will pay for it right now and then leave this terrible place tyvm". With the laptop on-hand the purchasing process would've taken as little time as it took for them to ram it into pos and for my phone nfc to pay.
  - esskay 1y ago
    Out of interest how long ago was this? The Covent Garden and Oxford street ones literally have a queue line for pickups and purchases over in the far right. Not 100% sure how long Oxford street has had theirs (at least since Xmas) but I know for a fact it's existed at Covent Garden's since day one as I used to work there.

SwtCyber 1y ago

They've always nailed that balance of making the store feel like a chill hangout and a temple of aspiration

nerdjon 1y ago

I will never forget one of my earliest Apple purchases being a macbook pro. I was convinced that I needed a certain specd machine that was more expensive. The person I was working with instead of just accepting what I thought I wanted asked me about what I was doing with it and really encouraged the lower cost machine. I ended up getting the lower cost machine and it was still great. It was still a Macbook pro. I don't remember what the spec difference was now but I do remember thinking back and realizing it was right. The higher specs really would not have added anymore life to the machine so it wasn't like I upgraded sooner than I would have otherwise. Complete opposite of nearly any other tech purchasing process, always seem to want me to spend as much money as possible.

unethical_ban 1y ago

Yesterday, I went into Best Buy with a friend to look at soundbars. As we were looking, a young man came up and said "Do you have any questions?" - I said we were just browsing, and he smiled and that was that. He came back a few minutes later when he saw me scanning a QR code on the price tag. Odd since I signaled I didn't need anything. He asked again, "Anything you need help with?" - This time I was still wishy-washy but said "Yeah, I'm checking the inputs on this soundbar to see if it has 3.5mm and how many HDMI ports it has". And without asking any more details, he smiled and said "Alright!" and walked away. We were completely baffled.

tpmoney 1y ago
Assuming it wasn’t just following up in case you really did need some help now, probably a “loss prevention” technique. Retail folks are almost never going to accuse someone of stealing and “following around a hovering” behavior is discouraged. Instead the recommendation is to keep an eye on someone you suspect to be shady and just swing by every couple of minutes to “check on them”. Even if you can’t see what they’re doing every moment, the constant reminders that you know they’re there and that you might see them is often enough to discourage theft. Works reasonably well. When I worked retail we had a person whose MO was to come into the store, browse the expensive headphones, take one off the shelf and put it down on the floor with their book bag while they looked at something else. After about 10 or 15 minutes they’d pick up the book bag and sweep the headphones inside as they were standing up and then walk out the door. If you stopped by while they were looking at the other thing and asked them if they needed any help with finding some accessories for the headphones or just offering to “hold it at the register” for them, they would wind up putting them back (or handing them to you and tell you they changed their mind) and leaving.

tpmoney 1y ago

This was definitely the way Apple (used to) teach their employees. The 3 big “rules” were 1) No upsell pressure. We all got a flat hourly wage, so whether you bought the 5k computer or the 1k computer, we earned the same money. So focus on selling the customer the right computer for their needs. 2) It’s better to send the customer somewhere else or let them walk out the door than it is to sell them something that won’t work for them. Sort of a corollary to the first item, but the idea was more than anything, customers should feel like they could trust us. And if building that trust meant telling the customer “we do have USB cables, but the Belkin one we’re selling for $25 is no better for your printer than the generic brand Best Buy is selling across the street” then that’s what we did. A customer who trusts us is a customer that comes back, and a customer that comes back is a customer that buys more things. Sure they may not buy the USB cable today, but next month when they’re buying some other thing for their computer, they might just pick up some other cable or item that they might be able to get cheaper elsewhere, but they’re already here, we have it and they trust us to stock quality items. 3) Never ever make something up or guess. All the computers are fully functional and hooked up to the internet for a reason. If you don’t know the answer, tell that to the customer and take them over to a computer and look it up with them. You get a chance to demo the machine, you get a chance to let the customer try out the machine and most importantly you maintain that trust. The customer can feel confident you’re not bullshitting them, and they can feel confident in the answer you finally do reach because you looked it up together. Apple’s opposition to being anything like CompUSA or other computer retailers at the time was IMO a huge factor in making their stores as big and popular as they were and are. Unfortunately my experience by the time I left was Apple’s rapid growth meant they were hiring more and more from outside the pool of “Apple enthusiasts ” and more and more from the wider retail world. It’s really hard to “untrain” the “high pressure commission sales” mindset from folks who have needed to live off that sort of sales approach. We’d also started to see some of it come down from above in the form of tracking individual “attachment metrics” like AppleCare. Back when AppleCare didn’t have accidental damage coverage, the pressure to sell AppleCare with the product in question rather than after the fact (at the time, up to 1 year after purchase) was antithetical to their otherwise strong focus on no upsells and building trust.