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Tesla sales drop for fifth month in a row in Europe
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- romaaeterna 1y agoA friend was fired for calling Musk a Nazi in work chat
- foogazi 1y agoDid they work at Tesla ?
- ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago[flagged]
- notyourwork 1y agoAnd they never should be nor should anyone be forgiven for offering one up now. Whether joking or not, it’s not acceptable.
- TulliusCicero 1y ago> I don't think that Americans (or South Africans) really understand the scars that the Nazis left in Europe. Left-leaning and centrist Americans at least were similarly horrified, so I don't think it's an issue of understanding in the US. Musk in particular is just dead set on being a right-wing extremist now for whatever reason. Also note that it's not just Europe where sales have dropped, Tesla EV market share has fallen quite hard in the US as well IIRC.
- mschuster91 1y ago> Musk in particular is just dead set on being a right-wing extremist now for whatever reason. That reason is his breeder fetish/ideology. By the tabloid press he's paid for IVF gender selection for boys, and Vivian rejecting that, defying her father's wish and coming out as trans is what sent him off on the anti-woke crusade. And that's also why he bought and ruined Twitter - in his view, it was the woke people on there who ruined his "son". It's all so damn petty, the actions of a man so rich he didn't think someone would ever tell him the word "no" and follow through with it. So much completely unnecessary suffering, all for the pure vanity of a single man.
- userbinator 1y agoThen how did VW survive?
- mikestew 1y agoI don’t have an answer to that, but I grew up with plenty of Americans, some of whom might even have fought in WWII, who wouldn’t buy a VW for the obvious reasons.
- rsynnott 1y agoIt didn't, in any meaningful way. Certainly the legal entity didn't; I suppose a trademark and some IP did.
- natebc 1y agoSome Americans certainly understand. Sadly (or maybe thankfully?) a lot of them have passed on. My grandfather was in France and Germany and was so scarred by what he experienced there that he never spoke of it once to any of his 6 children or 16 grandchildren and he was a fantastic story teller. I shudder to think how he would feel about what's happened in America recently. The Europe that he risked his life for and his friends that he watched die ... all that sacrifice and good will has been discarded in a few months.
- octaane 1y agoIs anyone surprised by this? Europeans still vividly remember, and are reminded, of the cost of WWII. When the head of a company, no matter how trendy, sieg heils on stage (twice!) and then goes on to publicly appear at far-right german political rallies - europeans take note, and act accordingly.
- v5v3 1y ago[flagged]
- kristopolous 1y agoThe wealthiest man in the world is want for lack of resources? Unlikely. He's 54, he knows what he's doing. It's easy to assume that atrocities while they're happening are as unpopular as they are after they happened but they're not. Population level atrocities are impossible without throngs of gushing supporters waving flags and screaming about "restoring the natural order". Always look out for flags, crosses and people with money trying to hide behind their symbols with reprehensible rhetoric.
- TulliusCicero 1y agoIf you think Elon could be persuaded to do that, I want what you're smoking. There's a certain type of person who, when others criticize them for doing some offensive things, their automatic response is just to do it even harder: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/8/8/1786532/-Cartoon-You-made-me-become-a-Nazi https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2018/8/8/1786532/-Cartoon-Y...
- nick_ 1y agoHe went to Auschwitz after being pressured to apologize for some unhinged tweets. This was all before he swig heiled twice on stage. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-68055368.amp https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-68055368.amp
- gambiting 1y agoThat makes it(for me) so much worse, knowing that he's been to Auschwitz and still decided to do it.
- dyauspitr 1y ago[flagged]
- willvarfar 1y agoIn Europe EV adoption is really driven by a concerted effort by individual buyers wanting to make green choices. And Musk has completely alienated all support from that buyer base. I don't see Tesla ever recovering its green credentials, and as a consequence ever recovering its sales or second-hand value.
- the_mitsuhiko 1y ago> In Europe EV adoption is really driven by a concerted effort by individual buyers Is that true? I would have bet that the adoption is driven by company fleet cars and incentives.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- LtWorf 1y agoNo it's not true.
- mslansn 1y ago[flagged]
- AlecSchueler 1y agoI think "for the non-professional market" was implied.
- willvarfar 1y agoThe company fleets are a thing of the past in my part of Europe so I didn't have them in mind when I was making my comment. I would speculate that European fleet purchasers in other parts of Europe would be wary of buying Teslas now partly because of the current trade war stuff and also with an eye on the resale value at end of lease; its really hard to shift a second hand Tesla these days.
- tpm 1y ago> In Europe EV adoption is really driven by a concerted effort by individual buyers wanting to make green choices. That would be nice but it is mostly driven by EU-wide fleet emission rules and individual country subsidies/taxes.
- pooty 1y ago[flagged]
- ck2 1y agoWhen that nightmare budget bill is pushed through next week and they replace EV credits with coal mine subsidies, Tesla sales will crater in US too If only we could solve starlink pollution as easily but privatize the profits, socialize the costs https://satellitemap.space/ https://satellitemap.space/
- windowshopping 1y agoWhat a crazy map. Kind of insane that one company was permitted to launch so many.
- ChocolateGod 1y agoThe map is not to scale, there is gigantically more space satellites between than the map implies.
- cosmic_cheese 1y ago> Kind of insane that one company was permitted to launch so many. It’s a good demonstration of how quickly things can go when you don’t have to clear lightyears of red tape and fend off constant obstructionism from NIMBYs and industry incumbents. We could probably lay fiber at almost the same speed if we could get those factors out of the way, but reality is not that kind and so any large scale terrestrial project like that is a long, drawn-out, expensive nightmare.
- ralfd 1y agoI’m honestly not sure which group I hate more, the Elon fans who think he can’t do anything wrong or the Musk haters who think everything he does is evil/dumb. Starlink is an absolute net good. https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1938793866389581865 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1938793866389581865 „Connectivity saves lives“
- verytrivial 1y agoThat still 8,729 too many sold.
- saubeidl 1y ago[flagged]
- v5v3 1y agoIts not 'forever ruined'. A percentage of buyers will have been put off.
- saubeidl 1y agoI don't think you understand the sentiment in Europe. Supporting far right extremist parties while doing Nazi salutes makes you a pariah, irrecoverably.
- hedora 1y agoHenry Ford used to put a copy of a book about the jewish banking conspiracy in each glove box, and VW were literally founded by Nazis. Elon’s about that bad. Tesla can probably dig out of their hole in 50-80 years, assuming they survive that long.
- hollerith 1y ago>Tesla can probably dig out of their hole in 50-80 years Tesla's market cap is still about $1 trillion, so it can't be much of a hole or more precisely investors with real money on the line don't think it can be: https://companiesmarketcap.com/tesla/marketcap/ https://companiesmarketcap.com/tesla/marketcap/
- mrtksn 1y agoThe same news from 5 days ago(117 comments): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44374761 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44374761 I wouldn't romanticize it that much. Tesla used to be: Unmatched software(+), unmatched electronics(+), Save the planet(+), great subsidies(+), electric car that doesn't look weird(+), USA and Startups and the future(+), unmatched acceleration(+), low built quality(-), Shitty driving dynamics(-) Now alternatives are pretty good, so still Unmatched software(+) but the difference is not that big and the rest doesn't look good. No longer saving the planet because you don't save the planet with fascists, USA is no longer cool(hostile and clown-like), tech guys are no longer cool(greedy and sleazy and meddle with politics instead of doing cool shit), the design is dated and boring now and there are many alternatives doing much better in many other characteristics. So Tesla still sells very well when the price is right, match the new situation and it sells. Tasla sells like hot cakes in Turkey for example because they introduced a version specifically for the Turkish regulations and that particular configuration is taxed just %10 when the cheapest petrol cars are taxed %80. AFAIK Tesla keeps selling well in Norway too.
- baxtr 1y agoAnd just recently added "shitty brand image (-)"
- mrtksn 1y agoTrue. The prince needs to match that to sell. In Europe if you are going to buy a Tesla better have a really good price to compensate for this.
- imachine1980_ 1y agoBrand image is really important ev where already better in china than any other place in the world before Tesla but Tesla give the allure that the tech need to have mass appeal. That's why it was so successful as a company
- stranded22 1y agoI thought it was really successful as a company due to all the carbon credit handouts it received from government, which it sold to the other car companies. That, and the lies from the man who owns a social media company (albeit later)
- afh1 1y agoYet the stock refuses to go down from a PE of almost 200, to the dismay of my options play... :-)
- vladd 1y agoThe market can remain irrational more than you can remain liquid.
- fancyswimtime 1y agono crying in the casino
- heavyset_go 1y agoIt's a meme stock, fundamentals don't matter, just vibes.
- llm_nerd 1y agoWhich is precisely why the company cannot split with Elon, and people who think it will are deluded. Elon has a very loose association with truth, in a manner that usually yields long prison sentences. For many years he has been engaging with what could accurately be called securities fraud, and there is always some amazing new mega revenue stream just around the corner. If Tesla fired Elon (in an imaginary world where he didn't control the board), any competent hire would have to seriously say ooof and point out all of the mega risks the company faces. With Elon it's all magic and fairy tales and soon a trillion super robots and robotaxis to Mars and...
- tkiolp4 1y agoIs anyone out there who feels sympathy for Elon? His public image is so damaged, I don’t think it can be recovered.
- RandomBacon 1y agoYou can feel sympathy for a person without agreeing with them or having the same viewpoints. I hope there are people out there that feel bad for another living being. Edit: Yikes. Also, sympathy ≠ empathy.
- goku12 1y agoDoes anybody feel sympathy for a terrorist? If your answer is yes, then you're unsympathetic towards numerous innocent others who have or may fall prey to them. Your sympathy becomes selective and meaningless. This might sound like a hyperbole, but the comparison to terrorism is relevant here. The DOGE cuts have a cost in terms of human lives. I have no conclusive sources to show for it, but some estimates put it at 300K till date. Even Bill Gates criticized it. And Elon laughed and scoffed at it when he was asked about it. Drugs are not an excuse for any of it, since it was his choice and nobody's addiction should cause the deaths of thousands. Frankly, the greed of billionaires seem to have a bigger cost in terms of suffering and lives than even terrorists do. So please stop giving these humans devoid of any empathy, the benefit of your humanity.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- RandomBacon 1y ago> Does anybody feel sympathy for a terrorist? If your answer is yes, then you're unsympathetic towards numerous innocent others who have or may fall prey to them. Your sympathy becomes selective and meaningless. You can have sympathy for both. It's not one or the other. > So please stop giving these humans devoid of any empathy, the benefit of your humanity. I sympathize for you. I hope that you're willing to open up your mind and be open to the idea that everyone deserves humanity. Hitler decided some people should be treated with humanity and others not. I imagine if you asked Hitler, he would have said the Jewish people were devoid of any empathy. I think we're above that, right? ----- It seems that for a lot of people, politics is more important than having humanity for other people. I wonder why that is.
- deanCommie 1y agoIt was crazy to visit Oslo or Amsterdam in the mid-2010s and notice just what a high % of vehicles were Tesla Model S's. Car ownership is expensive and unnecessary so people with wealth bought the environmentally positive status symbols. There was simply no equivalent. I wonder what will replace it.
- strangetortoise 1y agoIt is likely that most of the teslas you saw around Amsterdam were part of the Schiphol airport taxi fleet. They went all in on tesla about a decade ago.
- moomin 1y agoWhat’s the point in a luxury brand where you’re embarrassed to be seen displaying the logo? I don’t think I’ve ever seen brand impairment like this that didn’t result in the brand being retired. The only way forward I can see for them in Europe is partnership with a European firm and I can’t see that working either.
- mslansn 1y agoDo people really care about this that much? The European company that made my car probably uses its social media and ad presence to spread progressivism, which I’m completely against, but what are we supposed to do, find and buy only from companies that we identify with politically? That would be very hard and limiting. And somewhat stupid too (as stupid as a car company taking a political stance, or people that think that buying from some company means you identify with their politics, but here we are!)
- bogwog 1y agoDo people care that one of the most powerful men in the world has become an enthusiastic cheerleader for the ignorant beliefs and dangerous rhetoric that led to the deadliest war in human history? Yes, I believe they do.
- averageRoyalty 1y agoWhy? I'm sure the CEOs of most big companies we all give money to daily are evil people. Even if not, I'm sure some of their senior management, or even their janitor is a horrible person. This is the same confusion I have when someone decides to boycott a movie based on an actor. It's very likely some of the hundreds of people who make most movies are awful too, it's entirely futile.
- lawn 1y agoThe best way to let people get away with this kind of behavior is to be completely apathetic about it. So give yourself a clap on the back, you're an enabler.
- geff82 1y agoAside problems with Musk it has to be said that the model lineup of Tesla is poor by today’s Euopean standards. We have lots of models and brands available in all sizes, luxurious and expensive to small and fun. Tesla was a great choice in 2019, but now it is just one among many and it doesn’t boast a great design or interesting imterior.
- cosmic_cheese 1y agoEven in the US, Tesla has problems with lack of variety. In my case, almost nothing they sell fits in my garage. Even their shortest (Model 3) just barely fits, and there’s no hatch variant like I’d prefer, so I’m leasing a Nissan Ariya and will probably switch to one of those next-gen Leafs afterwards.
- palmotea 1y ago> Even in the US, Tesla has problems with lack of variety. Also all their cars (with the exception of the Cybertruck) literally look the same (like Neo in that scene from the Matrix where he has no mouth).
- ksherlock 1y agoI have 2 or 3 neighbors that solved that problem by parking in the driveway. I think the car would fit in the garage but ~75% of my neighbors use their garage as an extra room to store shit.
- cosmic_cheese 1y agoYeah that’s what my neighbors do too, but I live in a dense suburb and it makes getting in/out difficult if everybody’s driveways (including mine) are full, and the size of my car exacerbates that. Even as it is it’s a pain when the one neighbor has their truck in their driveway instead of their usual smaller Forester — in that case my small-by-SUV-standards Ariya suddenly feels like a whale trying to slip through. My needs also just aren’t that great. I don’t commute and I don’t drive much, so a small, highly maneuverable city car fits the bill perfectly.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- ttkari 1y agoYeah but you know, there's gonna be a million robotaxis driving around in 2 months time, pinky promise.
- btorretta 1y ago[flagged]
- fluidcruft 1y agoI'd say it's pretty indisputable that he's at least Nazi-friendly and doesn't care to bother distance himself from Nazis.
- saubeidl 1y agoIf he's not a nazi, why does he give speeches at nazi rallies?
- 4ndrewl 1y agoWell it's a take based on "things he actually did and said". The conspiracy theories are _much_ weirder.
- palata 1y agoOne thing is obviously Musk with his Nazi salutes and open support to the far right in multiple European countries, including Germany. This, to me, is enough to mock anyone who would buy a Tesla after those events. The other thing is that Tesla is a US company. I suspect that many people outside the US look for alternatives to US products. The more expensive the product, the more important the decision. And Teslas are by far not the best EVs (clearly not an ecological car, not the cheapest, ...), so it's easy to go for an alternative. And then, for people who wouldn't mind so much what Musk and Trump and their band are doing, it is anyway a risk: people in the street will judge you if you drive in a Tesla. Many drivers have put stickers on their Tesla to show they don't support Musk ("I bought it before Musk became crazy"), but they can't do that with a new model. Buying a new Tesla that was clearly built after those events is a great risk (Teslas have been burned even though they had been bought before the madness). All that to say, I'm surprised to see that there are still Tesla sales in Europe at all.
- 123yawaworht456 1y ago>people in the street will judge you if you drive in a Tesla maybe if there's a reddit meetup nearby
- timeonecom 1y agoWriting from Germany the first association with Tesla is Musk and following that his Nazi stuff and involvement with the current US chaos. The brand name Tesla is burned and it will need years of good behavior to bring it back to neutral. If Tesla wants to sell cars here, they need a new company name.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- dumbledoren 1y agoEurope is economically strained right now. Inflation has hit hard, with housing costs skyrocketing even in less expensive countries, and people are being gentrified out of their own cities. Its no time to be buying expensive vanity cars. People cant even buy normal cars right now.
- nemo44x 1y agoIt’s odd to read the comments here, somehow getting into a long thread about nazi camps when the buried lede is that Europe is under tremendous financial stress and it’s not getting better. Losing ground for 20 years to USA and ascendant Asia where Tesla sells a ton of cars is a concern. Talk about boiled frogs.
- 123yawaworht456 1y agono matter how many events prove them to be laughably wrong, they keep deluding themselves into thinking that the values held in their extremely isolated bubbles are commonplace. like yeah, sure bro, people see a $50K car and purse their lips because musk is le bad. just like they do about BMWs and Porsches, right?
- drivingmenuts 1y agoAre BMW and Porsche actively encouraging neo-Nazi groups?
- 123yawaworht456 1y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche#Origin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche#Origin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen#History now, how many people give a fuck about any of that?
- rsynnott 1y agoI realise it is most improper to read the article on this here orange website, but: > Overall, battery electric vehicle sales rose 25% in Europe compared to a year earlier Come on, now.
- dave_walko 1y agoSo the stock tomorrow will jump up 10% on this news.
- readthenotes1 1y agoI think it's kinda funny people ditch Musk only to embrace the CCP. Not sure that makes sense. The Uighurs need better PR, I guess.
- frankzinger 1y agoGood point but I think it just shows how toxic the Musk brand is now.
- ndsipa_pomu 1y agoI guess that publicly performing Nazi salutes sends a loud and clear message to people
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- TFYS 1y agoHow is buying from Chinese companies embracing the CCP? BYD didn't do anything to Uighurs. The US is also supporting something much worse than what China has done at this moment, so if we use the same logic, we shouldn't be buying anything produced by US companies.
- root_axis 1y agoHuh? Trump would be the analog to the CCP, not Musk. That's like saying people are choosing the CCP when they buy from Temu instead of Amazon.
- beAbU 1y agoIt shows you how far the US and the Trump/Musk brand has fallen if China suddenly appears moderate and tame.