4 ms·

The idea of common good is centuries older than the appearance of French or the English translation. It has nothing to do with shared values. It's exactly as I

The idea of common good is centuries older than the appearance of French or the English translation. It has nothing to do with shared values. It's exactly as I described it above. Notice the reconstructed PIE means to move together. Common good is about the interests of groups that co-move rather than groups that share values. This makes sense even in family contexts. What is good for the family is often different from what any one person wants. Think about things like choosing dinner for a big hungry family on a long road trip. Often the best solution is at best everyone's third or fourth choice because values and desires differ.

crawfordcomeaux 1y ago
And avoiding orienting around needs makes all of us susceptible to desires & values we've larvely been indoctrinated into.
- trinsic2 1y ago
  Yeah I am not sure what you mean by this, see my reply above.
trinsic2 1y ago
So "Common Good" is directly related to "Common Law" which showed up in 509-27 BC Rome during the Republic period and it was a way to have a common understanding between the "Common People" when Rome's political state was trying to use political law against non-Romans. The common people needed a way to protect themselves from the rising emperors and their decrees. So I understand that you think its about families, but in this context, its really not. It was a way or a method to protect commoners. When I say value, I mean if we both value freedom then we have a "Shared Value". This is really about the rights of the people which differs what rulers, want for the people. And I mean rulers that want to wield power against the people, for self-interested purposes.
- ants_everywhere 1y ago
  Again that is not what common good is and it does not originate in the Roman Republic. I'm honestly not sure it's worth responding here or what you're trying to say about Rome. It sounds like you may be confusing the Roman Republic with the Roman Empire, which started much later in 31 BCE. For one thing the Roman Republic did not have an emporer. For another it wasn't expanding militarily or ruling non-Romans. And you also seem to be confusing different uses of "common". Common generally means something held collectively by a group. By extension it can mean "customary" as in common law rather than statutory law. By extension it also can mean "ordinary" or "plain", as in "common house cat". "Commoners" or "common people" are just "ordinary" people; that is, people without titles. The only connection between the "common" in "common good" and "common people" is the use of the string "common". The word means different things in the two contexts.
  - trinsic2 1y ago
    No the original meaning of "Common Good" is related to "Common Law" And that actually originated in Rome between the Republic and Empire periods. Your focus on the specific dates have nothing to do with the actual originating use of the saying. It can mean "ordinary" or "plain", but not in the context of "Common Good". I think you are trying to obfuscate the meaning by focusing on the peripherals of the context.
  - bluecheese452 1y ago
    Rome most certainly was expanding militarily and ruling non romans far before it became an empire. The punic wars for example were more than a century before it became an empire.

crawfordcomeaux 1y ago

And avoiding orienting around needs makes all of us susceptible to desires & values we've larvely been indoctrinated into.

trinsic2 1y ago
Yeah I am not sure what you mean by this, see my reply above.

trinsic2 1y ago

So "Common Good" is directly related to "Common Law" which showed up in 509-27 BC Rome during the Republic period and it was a way to have a common understanding between the "Common People" when Rome's political state was trying to use political law against non-Romans. The common people needed a way to protect themselves from the rising emperors and their decrees. So I understand that you think its about families, but in this context, its really not. It was a way or a method to protect commoners. When I say value, I mean if we both value freedom then we have a "Shared Value". This is really about the rights of the people which differs what rulers, want for the people. And I mean rulers that want to wield power against the people, for self-interested purposes.

ants_everywhere 1y ago
Again that is not what common good is and it does not originate in the Roman Republic. I'm honestly not sure it's worth responding here or what you're trying to say about Rome. It sounds like you may be confusing the Roman Republic with the Roman Empire, which started much later in 31 BCE. For one thing the Roman Republic did not have an emporer. For another it wasn't expanding militarily or ruling non-Romans. And you also seem to be confusing different uses of "common". Common generally means something held collectively by a group. By extension it can mean "customary" as in common law rather than statutory law. By extension it also can mean "ordinary" or "plain", as in "common house cat". "Commoners" or "common people" are just "ordinary" people; that is, people without titles. The only connection between the "common" in "common good" and "common people" is the use of the string "common". The word means different things in the two contexts.
- trinsic2 1y ago
  No the original meaning of "Common Good" is related to "Common Law" And that actually originated in Rome between the Republic and Empire periods. Your focus on the specific dates have nothing to do with the actual originating use of the saying. It can mean "ordinary" or "plain", but not in the context of "Common Good". I think you are trying to obfuscate the meaning by focusing on the peripherals of the context.
- bluecheese452 1y ago
  Rome most certainly was expanding militarily and ruling non romans far before it became an empire. The punic wars for example were more than a century before it became an empire.