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Apple Wallet is in the App store, and the F1 ad debacle directly violates App Store guidelines https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ https://
by em500 1y ago
Apple Wallet is in the App store, and the F1 ad debacle directly violates App Store guidelines https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/)
> 4.5.4 Push Notifications must not be required for the app to function, and should not be used to send sensitive personal or confidential information. Push Notifications should not be used for promotions or direct marketing purposes unless customers have explicitly opted in to receive them via consent language displayed in your app’s UI, and you provide a method in your app for a user to opt out from receiving such messages. Abuse of these services may result in revocation of your privileges.
- aqme28 1y agoInteresting. I feel like this clause is violated very often by major apps: > Push Notifications should not be used for promotions or direct marketing purposes unless customers have explicitly opted in to receive them via consent language displayed in your app’s UI, and you provide a method in your app for a user to opt out from receiving such messages.
- foooorsyth 1y agoI’ve said several times before that notifications should be reportable as spam directly to Google/Apple, just like email spam reporting. Google tried to tackle this with notification channels, but the onus falls on the developer to actually use them honestly. No company trying to draw attention back to their app with advertisement notifications will willingly name a notification channel “advertisements” or “user re-engagement” or similar — they’ll just interleave spam with all the non-spam. This API from G hasn’t worked.
- remus 1y ago> Google tried to tackle this with notification channels, but the onus falls on the developer to actually use them honestly. No company trying to draw attention back to their app with advertisement notifications will willingly name a notification channel “advertisements” or “user re-engagement” or similar — they’ll just interleave spam with all the non-spam. This API from G hasn’t worked. Revolut are really annoying for this. I'm sure there's a few spare days In their development cycle for someone to implement it if they wanted to, but instead they keep everything on the same channel which is 50% promo shit, because you don't want to miss that notification warning you about fraudulent activity on your card.
- drdaeman 1y agoThere should be a public API, open to any user-designated program (including self-made, without requiring any special hoops to obtain any fancy entitlements), that can act as a "firewall" for all notifications (except, possibly, for few system-critical ones), allowing it to control and modify those as it seems fit.
- mzajc 1y agoApplications can interact with notifications on the user's behalf via the accessibility permission - I do this with KDE Connect. I don't know what the limitations are.
- drdaeman 1y agoOn iOS? Last time I've checked, kdeconnect-ios was unable to read any third-party notifications, not to mention doing anything to them or modifying their text or appearance in any way. Project readme still says "Notification syncing doesn't work because iOS applications can't access notifications of other apps" (https://github.com/KDE/kdeconnect-ios?tab=readme-ov-file#known-behavior-and-problems https://github.com/KDE/kdeconnect-ios?tab=readme-ov-file#kno...) so I think it's still a thing.
- mzajc 1y agoOn Android, I forgot to mention.
- dreamcompiler 1y agoPrecisely this. There needs to be an API that all apps have to use not only for notifications but also for getting your contacts, your phone's location, etc. that is spoofable by the user. Or better yet, an AI program that runs entirely on the phone and does the spoofing automatically and entirely on behalf of the user. Let the enshittified apps' ads interact with your AI agent and steal your fake "data" in the background without bothering the user. Also important: It must be IMPOSSIBLE for any app to detect that its requests are being intercepted by your agent. (If they can tell, they'll refuse to work until you give them direct access.) This is a real killer app for AI but you'll never get VC funding to build it.
- miki123211 1y agoWe also need some kind of (privacy friendly) open rate tracking and spam protection. If many users receive a new kind of notification, using a new template, with low open rates, and uncorrelated with app activity, somebody at Apple should at least give it a 5-second glance and decide between "false positive" and "needs to be elevated"
- kccqzy 1y agoAs soon as I see one violation, I turn off the notification permission altogether. For example the Amazon shopping app can't send me notifications.
- sethops1 1y agoI'm at the point where literally only the messages, clock, and maps apps can send me notifications.
- ponector 1y agoThat is an awesome idea! To send ads from messages app.
- Tijdreiziger 1y agohttps://www.androidpolice.com/2021/08/18/spammy-ads-are-invading-google-messages-heres-how-to-get-rid-of-them/ https://www.androidpolice.com/2021/08/18/spammy-ads-are-inva...
- amendegree 1y agoSame I think I denied the wallet app the ability to notify me after this ad. It’s so ingrained in me that I don’t think about it anymore… if I see an add in a notification I just immediately swipe, settings, turn off
- rchaud 1y agoWhy not just use the mobile website then? An app icon is itself equivalent to having a billboard on your homescreen. What is the app providing besides notifications that necessitates its use?
- kortilla 1y agoMobile websites are often either non existent or work far worse than the app.
- discostrings 1y agoUber violates this. At least as of a few years ago, there was no way to get notifications about driver arrival without also getting special offer and Uber Eats spam notifications periodically. Not only was there no opt-in consent, there was no way to turn them off without disabling the status updates. It's particularly bad when apps with legitimate time-sensitive functionality do this. I denied the app the ability to send any notifications on principle, and now it's very annoying to have to check the app to see the driver status. It makes things worse for both me and them and I use it less as a result.
- sneak 1y agoDoorDash also. I tend to uninstall apps that do this if I have any alternative to them.
- bdangubic 1y agoI uninstall even if I do not have alternatives, I install/delete Uber every time I use it. When I need a ride with them I install it, when the ride is over I tip the driver and delete the app. Every single time, no exceptions
- adeelk93 1y agoAccount > Settings > Communication > Marketing Preferences. Uncheck them all. A bit hidden, but it does work.
- discostrings 1y agoAt the point in time when I disabled notifications for the app, it did not. I tried that. Even after navigating dark patterns, digging into the menus, and turning those options off, I still received promotion notifications. Perhaps they've fixed it since? I don't know because they've already burned my trust and they've done nothing to earn it back. Publicly acknowledging and apologizing for this would have been a way to start getting off my list of bad actors. Even if they've made it possible to successfully turn those off deep in the menus now, whatever dreamed-up definition of "opted in" it's operating under is a tortured legalistic one that undermines the actual meaning and spirit of opting in.
- nixpulvis 1y agoThe Boston parking meter app violates this FFS. Love getting Nift gift card promotions randomly from the app I'm forced to use to pay the meter /s
- miki123211 1y agoTinder and delivery apps definitely don't follow these rules.
- msgodel 1y agoIn fact that's the main selling point for developing an iPhone app rather than a web page these days.
- moffkalast 1y agoI can hardly think of an app that uses notifications and doesn't abuse it that way. I pretty much block them as standard.
- mvdtnz 1y agoI hope this impacts current or future lawsuits regarding anticompetitive app store practices. It's a clear example of the unfair playing field Apple runs.
- Nextgrid 1y agoFor better or worse, Apple doesn't enforce this on third-parties either.
- mvdtnz 1y agoYou cannot possibly know that. Regardless of how many instances of infractions you know of you cannot know how many instances didn't occur because of the rule and you cannot know how the known infractions were punished by Apple behind closed doors. The very existence of this rule is what makes the playing field unfair.
- alwa 1y agoLord help us if “what’s good for the goose is good for the gander,” and the remedy (or the portent [0]) is throwing open the platform to everyone to advertise this way… That element of “well it’s different when we do it” is what’s so unclassy here. And, like… so weirdly un-self-aware. And all for a coupon for a garden-variety movie?! The movie doesn’t have anything to do with Apple, other than being made on their dime. What a strange purpose for which to piss away your perch above the fray. At least save this intrusion for when you’re pushing a magical new self-driving Apple Car or something! [0] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/08/report-apple-is-exploring-in-app-ads-for-maps-podcasts-books-and-beyond/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/08/report-apple-is-expl...
- al_borland 1y agoA lot of companies violate that policy, and it quickly leads me to uninstall the app when they do. I didn’t get the F1 ad though (at least not yet). I have seen Apple abusing notifications in other areas to push their subscription services though, and it a problematic trend. It makes them look cheap and desperate.
- croes 1y agoThey are for third party developers. Apple can and will do whatever they want
- nevitablentropy 1y agoNever knew this before - OfferUp is a huge violator of this where they will push notification containing only advertisements with a loud notification that is identical to those used when someone makes you an offer. There is also no way to disable those promotional notifications without disabling all notifications from the app.
- ugh123 1y ago>unless customers have explicitly opted in to receive them via consent language displayed in your app’s UI Have we not already agreed to this in one of the million TOS prompts that Apple shows us? sad
- valleyjo 1y agoUber does this all the time to me. It’s so frustrating. I allow notifications from uber when I don’t from most apps because they are useful when a ride is incoming. Yet I get random spam notifications. I wish Apple would stand up for their own rules and do something about it but since they don’t even enforce this rule on themselves what hope is there
- burnte 1y ago> Apple Wallet is in the App store, and the F1 ad debacle directly violates App Store guidelines https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/) It would only violate App Store guidelines if Apple forces itself to agree to, and be bound by them. I think it's arguable that they probably do not, and so they didn't violate the guidelines because they're not bound by them.
- yencabulator 1y agoAnd how do you think EU will react to Apple giving themselves such privileges over others?
- kulahan 1y agoWouldn’t the guidelines apply to anyone using it who doesn’t have specific, legal, written exemptions? Not to say they don’t have it, but simply hand-waving “well they wrote it so it doesn’t have to apply to them” doesn’t seem quite as simple to me. I could be wrong!
- mlyle 1y agoThe whole point of an agreement is that it sets out what parties will do for each other, and what happens if there is a breach. Apple could already do things with the App Store without needing to agree to something to get Apple to let Apple do App Store things. Apple is not going to sue themselves for being in breach. etc. Just because there's e.g. a license agreement doesn't mean you need to agree to something, if you are somehow otherwise authorized to do the thing. E.g. fair use, or you have a pre-existing right or ownership, or whatever.
- kulahan 1y agoThanks, this is why I asked - I know law can be weird and somewhat counterintuitive, so I try not to assume much!
- jeffgreco 1y agoI think the premise is folks at Apple don’t have the occasion to be prompted to accept the terms.
- klysm 1y agoWhy would apple be subject to these guidelines?
- gdubs 1y agoBecause they designed those guidelines for the best user experience.
- m463 1y agoyou probably agreed to it in the 1000+ pages of privacy policy you get at the start of setting up an iphone. And there is not one checkbox for opting out. I've always wondered why apple feels entitled to do stuff like say "privacy is a right" while simultaneously collecting enormous amounts of data from your phone. I think back to the dan ariely investigation into dishonestly showed that disclaimers (like license agreements/privacy statements) are pretty much the gateway to bad behavior. it's like carte blanche to do whatever they want.
- Sylamore 1y agoResido - the app for honeywell smart thermostats - requires notifications to be enabled to view or manage your thermostat settings or run time history. This is relatively recent because I had disabled notifications over a year ago due to it pushing ads to me. The good news is you can limit it to only showing badges, but you have to at least have that enabled or it just freezes on a blank screen after telling you to edit your settings.
- pants2 1y agoWhat an awful app too. It doesn't refresh the current temperature without force-quitting and restarting. Not as bad as my water heater app though. Couldn't get it to pair after 30 mins of headbanging, finally got through to their support who told me that the app usually doesn't work and they don't know why, and that I shouldn't bother trying.
- anitil 1y agoI refuse to allow any smart device in my house. Even my oven is getting out over its boots lately
- Sylamore 1y agoIt was annoying because my previous house had some z-wave enabled thermostats I could manage through the alarm system without any of that BS, I thought the honeywell in this rental would be nicer but all it's done is confirm I'll be using something other than honeywell controls in my next house.
- Croak 1y agoRules for thee not for me