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The word "Common Good" has a specific meaning. It steams from the word "Common" which means the people that share common values at our most basic levels, and "G

The word "Common Good" has a specific meaning. It steams from the word "Common" which means the people that share common values at our most basic levels, and "Good" means whats best for the people that share these common values. What you are talking about is imposed self-interest at the level of the population from one or a small population that do not represent the common good. Not the same thing IMHO.

ants_everywhere 1y ago
That's not what common good is. Common good never requires that people share core values. Common good historically was what's good for the city/polis/country/band/family. Basically, you make some (ideally relatively small) sacrifice to your own interest for the sake of a larger group you share fate with. There are more formal/mathematical versions of it, for example in Bentham where the common good is essentially a weighted sum over the good to each individual. Rousseau described it almost exactly as the resultant of force vectors. There are more authoritarian versions like in historical Sparta and more recently in Marx and Engels where it's imposed through violence. > imposed self-interest I'm not sure exactly what you're saying here, but self-interest is almost by definition not externally imposed. In Marxism one particular vision of the common good is imposed externally via a "revolutionary terror."
- trinsic2 1y ago
  Here is the etymology of the word: common(adj.) c. 1300, "belonging to all, owned or used jointly, general, of a public nature or character," from Old French comun "common, general, free, open, public" (9c., Modern French commun), from Latin communis "in common, public, shared by all or many; general, not specific; familiar, not pretentious." This is from a reconstructed PIE compound ko-moin-i- "held in common," compound adjective formed from ko- "together" + moi-n-, suffixed form of root mei- (1) "to change, go, move," hence literally "shared by all." Your confusing political language with what came before this. Common good is the will of the people. It has nothing to do with cities, countries, or states. All of those things were created by people that wield political power. This is not the same as the common good. Common good directly relates to what is good for the people that share common values. You have been misinformed, by political society unfortunately.
  - navane 1y ago
    I don't think quoting the dictionary is helping here. The problem with common good is that it's hard to agree upon what is good, and if you find a good, there's often a group that's outside this "common".
    - trinsic2 1y ago
      In this context, I disagree. Its really clear what the good in "Common" means. Its like principles of what the Constitution was written on. Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Principles like these are qualities we all naturally exhibit and as such doesn't need any explanation or qualifications. I know in our modern world people have decided that everything is open to interpretation. But I believe this was indoctrinated into us, over a long period of time, not to consider the human value[0] aspect of our being that we are born with. This was done by watering down the direct meaning of words and slowly changing the perception that humanity doesn't have infinite value and has to rely on external power structures to give it meaning. [0]: https://archive.org/details/end-of-all-evil/page/n1/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/end-of-all-evil/page/n1/mode/2up
  - ants_everywhere 1y ago
    The idea of common good is centuries older than the appearance of French or the English translation. It has nothing to do with shared values. It's exactly as I described it above. Notice the reconstructed PIE means to move together. Common good is about the interests of groups that co-move rather than groups that share values. This makes sense even in family contexts. What is good for the family is often different from what any one person wants. Think about things like choosing dinner for a big hungry family on a long road trip. Often the best solution is at best everyone's third or fourth choice because values and desires differ.
    - crawfordcomeaux 1y ago
      And avoiding orienting around needs makes all of us susceptible to desires & values we've larvely been indoctrinated into.

ants_everywhere 1y ago

That's not what common good is. Common good never requires that people share core values. Common good historically was what's good for the city/polis/country/band/family. Basically, you make some (ideally relatively small) sacrifice to your own interest for the sake of a larger group you share fate with. There are more formal/mathematical versions of it, for example in Bentham where the common good is essentially a weighted sum over the good to each individual. Rousseau described it almost exactly as the resultant of force vectors. There are more authoritarian versions like in historical Sparta and more recently in Marx and Engels where it's imposed through violence. > imposed self-interest I'm not sure exactly what you're saying here, but self-interest is almost by definition not externally imposed. In Marxism one particular vision of the common good is imposed externally via a "revolutionary terror."

trinsic2 1y ago
Here is the etymology of the word: common(adj.) c. 1300, "belonging to all, owned or used jointly, general, of a public nature or character," from Old French comun "common, general, free, open, public" (9c., Modern French commun), from Latin communis "in common, public, shared by all or many; general, not specific; familiar, not pretentious." This is from a reconstructed PIE compound ko-moin-i- "held in common," compound adjective formed from ko- "together" + moi-n-, suffixed form of root mei- (1) "to change, go, move," hence literally "shared by all." Your confusing political language with what came before this. Common good is the will of the people. It has nothing to do with cities, countries, or states. All of those things were created by people that wield political power. This is not the same as the common good. Common good directly relates to what is good for the people that share common values. You have been misinformed, by political society unfortunately.
- navane 1y ago
  I don't think quoting the dictionary is helping here. The problem with common good is that it's hard to agree upon what is good, and if you find a good, there's often a group that's outside this "common".
  - trinsic2 1y ago
    In this context, I disagree. Its really clear what the good in "Common" means. Its like principles of what the Constitution was written on. Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Principles like these are qualities we all naturally exhibit and as such doesn't need any explanation or qualifications. I know in our modern world people have decided that everything is open to interpretation. But I believe this was indoctrinated into us, over a long period of time, not to consider the human value[0] aspect of our being that we are born with. This was done by watering down the direct meaning of words and slowly changing the perception that humanity doesn't have infinite value and has to rely on external power structures to give it meaning. [0]: https://archive.org/details/end-of-all-evil/page/n1/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/end-of-all-evil/page/n1/mode/2up
- ants_everywhere 1y ago
  The idea of common good is centuries older than the appearance of French or the English translation. It has nothing to do with shared values. It's exactly as I described it above. Notice the reconstructed PIE means to move together. Common good is about the interests of groups that co-move rather than groups that share values. This makes sense even in family contexts. What is good for the family is often different from what any one person wants. Think about things like choosing dinner for a big hungry family on a long road trip. Often the best solution is at best everyone's third or fourth choice because values and desires differ.
  - crawfordcomeaux 1y ago
    And avoiding orienting around needs makes all of us susceptible to desires & values we've larvely been indoctrinated into.