4 ms·

What food insecurity? We joined a successful agricultural union (the EEC, in 1973) and remained a member of its successor for decades and had fantastic access

What food insecurity? We joined a successful agricultural union (the EEC, in 1973) and remained a member of its successor for decades and had fantastic access to produce, and some of the cheapest food in the EU (also thanks to a highly competitive grocery sector) Even since leaving, the food supply issues have been very minor. We may have food insecurity in the future but I'm confused if you're implying we've had any serious food insecurity the last few decades

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nradov 1y ago
If a country depends on foreign imports just to satisfy basic needs then they are food insecure, by definition. Membership in alliances and trading blocs is temporary, and if other countries have the power to cut you off then that's an existential threat. You would think that the UK would have learned something from the food shortages during WWII when a blockade was in effect. The country might have starved if not for military and logistical support from Canada and the USA.
- octo888 1y ago
  We obviously have a very different definition of food insecurity. I don't agree with your definition. I think you're talking about import dependence. The World Food Programme define it as "Food security exists when people have access to enough safe and nutritious food for normal growth and development, and an active and healthy life". They also link to the IPC (Integrated Food Security Phase Classification), which hasn't even ranked much of Europe, I imagine for quite obvious reasons. The FAO (Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations) defines it as "the generally accepted definition of food security is "a situation in which all people at all times have access to adequate quantities of safe and nutritious food to lead a healthy and active life". Importing food can strengthen food security. Complete self-sufficiency can be a weakness too - we have one bad year of weather and oops sorry people starve because we did away with our all produce import systems? Systemic resilience to me seems more important that the exact origin of the food. We are a country adept at international trade and I don't see why we should stop over some odd notion that imports are bad. Many, many other countries import a lot of their food. We are not weird outliers. Which countries do you think we should model ourselves over, out of curiosity? Who excels at self sufficiency (except the US - we aren't all blessed at having the power, geography and climate of the US. Nor frankly do we think their agricultural system is an example to copy) Later Regarding WWII, of course the entire continent learnt a lot of hard lessons - particularly about agricultural policy. I already mentioned the EEC. Desire for peace was a big reason for agricultural co-operation, if I recall my history correctly. The continent with many countries that loved wars would have no problem going to war over food
  - nradov 1y ago
    You're missing the point. Those definitions you cite are only relevant to individuals or groups of people, not entire nation states. No one is claiming that imports are "bad" or proposing to do away with all food imports, but countries should be able to produce enough staple foodstuffs to meet the basic caloric and nutritional needs of their population. Otherwise they continue to exist only on the sufferance of others. Do you really believe that the UK could never, ever be blockaded again? Has history come to an end? Besides the USA there are a number of countries which are at least mostly food secure including Canada, Russia, India, Brazil, France, Ukraine, Australia, and New Zealand. Some of those do depend on imports of fossil fuels and fertilizers to maintain production.
    - octo888 1y ago
      You're just trolling. I'm done
tim333 1y ago
I was thinking that - I've lived in the UK for 60 years and not noticed much food insecurity. I mean if we were cut off there would be shortage of avocados and bananas and the like but we wouldn't starve. We might have to take some of the set aside land and plant potatoes or something.
- nradov 1y ago
  The food security situation in the UK was looking pretty dire 83 years ago. Food imports were cut in half, and attempts to increase domestic production had only limited success. It would have gotten a lot worse if Canada and the USA hadn't stepped in to help break the German blockade and deliver food aid. Memories are apparently short.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

nradov 1y ago

If a country depends on foreign imports just to satisfy basic needs then they are food insecure, by definition. Membership in alliances and trading blocs is temporary, and if other countries have the power to cut you off then that's an existential threat. You would think that the UK would have learned something from the food shortages during WWII when a blockade was in effect. The country might have starved if not for military and logistical support from Canada and the USA.

octo888 1y ago
We obviously have a very different definition of food insecurity. I don't agree with your definition. I think you're talking about import dependence. The World Food Programme define it as "Food security exists when people have access to enough safe and nutritious food for normal growth and development, and an active and healthy life". They also link to the IPC (Integrated Food Security Phase Classification), which hasn't even ranked much of Europe, I imagine for quite obvious reasons. The FAO (Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations) defines it as "the generally accepted definition of food security is "a situation in which all people at all times have access to adequate quantities of safe and nutritious food to lead a healthy and active life". Importing food can strengthen food security. Complete self-sufficiency can be a weakness too - we have one bad year of weather and oops sorry people starve because we did away with our all produce import systems? Systemic resilience to me seems more important that the exact origin of the food. We are a country adept at international trade and I don't see why we should stop over some odd notion that imports are bad. Many, many other countries import a lot of their food. We are not weird outliers. Which countries do you think we should model ourselves over, out of curiosity? Who excels at self sufficiency (except the US - we aren't all blessed at having the power, geography and climate of the US. Nor frankly do we think their agricultural system is an example to copy) Later Regarding WWII, of course the entire continent learnt a lot of hard lessons - particularly about agricultural policy. I already mentioned the EEC. Desire for peace was a big reason for agricultural co-operation, if I recall my history correctly. The continent with many countries that loved wars would have no problem going to war over food
- nradov 1y ago
  You're missing the point. Those definitions you cite are only relevant to individuals or groups of people, not entire nation states. No one is claiming that imports are "bad" or proposing to do away with all food imports, but countries should be able to produce enough staple foodstuffs to meet the basic caloric and nutritional needs of their population. Otherwise they continue to exist only on the sufferance of others. Do you really believe that the UK could never, ever be blockaded again? Has history come to an end? Besides the USA there are a number of countries which are at least mostly food secure including Canada, Russia, India, Brazil, France, Ukraine, Australia, and New Zealand. Some of those do depend on imports of fossil fuels and fertilizers to maintain production.
  - octo888 1y ago
    You're just trolling. I'm done

tim333 1y ago

I was thinking that - I've lived in the UK for 60 years and not noticed much food insecurity. I mean if we were cut off there would be shortage of avocados and bananas and the like but we wouldn't starve. We might have to take some of the set aside land and plant potatoes or something.

nradov 1y ago
The food security situation in the UK was looking pretty dire 83 years ago. Food imports were cut in half, and attempts to increase domestic production had only limited success. It would have gotten a lot worse if Canada and the USA hadn't stepped in to help break the German blockade and deliver food aid. Memories are apparently short.