8 ms·

Show HN: I made a 2D game engine in Dart

98 points by joemanaco 1y ago

munificent 1y ago
This is so cool! I love it.
- joemanaco 1y ago
  Thanks. Hearing that from someone who works on Dart and wrote two books I’ve read makes the compliment really special to me :)
devrandoom 1y ago
The Boing game doesn't work mobile, is that by design?
- joemanaco 1y ago
  I ported this game from the Book "Code The Classics" which was written in Python/PyGame. It should be relativley easy to add mobile touch inputs to it, but I didn't have time for that yet.
  - stpedgwdgfhgdd 1y ago
    Probably worth it as most people read HN on tablet or phone. What is potentially a problem is the lack of training material for AI agents to generate games on top of this platform.
    - lionkor 1y ago
      You can just read the documentation and write code, there's really no need for AI here. Your argument sounds a bit like "What is a problem is that I cant enjoy my hourly whisky while driving". Maybe the problem isn't the platform :)
    - bovermyer 1y ago
      Anecdotally, I never use HN on mobile devices. I don't have access to data for HN device usage. Do you? "Training material for AI agents?" The lack of such is not a problem. AI agents are an adversary for many, not a target.
leecommamichael 1y ago
> An easy-to-use, high-performance 2D game library for Dart. This is one of those things you say to interest people. To put their concerns to rest that it might not be able to make the game they want. It doesn't really mean anything. No absolute measurements or relative comparisons.
- nurettin 1y ago
  To me it just means that they are satisfied with their work. Enough to announce success and joy.
- ghurtado 1y ago
  Surely this isn't the first time you see software that claims high performance and speed without any hard benchmarks attached. You can benchmark an algorithm or a small piece of code, but for something like a game library, the definition of what is "fast" and what isn't is too dependent on context to be meaningful. That doesn't mean that the statement is useless: it tells me that this is, at least partially, one of the goals of the library.
  - Joel_Mckay 1y ago
    For most folks I think they use an fps score while not sacrificing aesthetic quality or game play experience. i.e. The engine is considered lower quality if it is laggy, generates DLSS chowder, or glitches up on some hardware. The people responsible for shader cache performance get a lot of grief given the performance hit in unpredictable play contexts is often very noticeable. The Unreal devs made it look deceptively easy. =3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWS8Mg-JWSg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWS8Mg-JWSg
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
zxexz 1y ago
I really hate to be that guy, but I don't see a single screenshot/demo on the main page.
- rodnim 1y ago
  Click "Showcase" in the main top menu.
- niekiepriekie 1y ago
  Well, it does seem a bit hidden and the demo's are a bit simple. The Pong demo doesn't seem to work on safari desktop (When playing, the ball stops after 0.2 s . But he! You have to start somewhere. Good luck!
socalgal2 1y ago
I hope this isn't off topic. What is the draw of Dart? In other words, what does it claim to do special or emphasize over other langauges? Like if you were going to try to convince someone they should give Dart a try, what reasons would you give?
- isoos 1y ago
  Modern, but sane syntax (readable), good defaults (strong typing, null safety...), good-enough runtime performance, good APIs and tooling out of the box, cross-platform (also hot-reload on some, AOT). The list goes on, what specifics do you care about more?
- freitzzz 1y ago
  I would say that the best benefits are: - Cross Compilation (even wasm and js) out of the box - Simple concurrency model, similar to NodeJS - Ability to use it on a popular cross platform framework (flutter) - Hot reload capibilities (has JIT and AOT mode) - Strong developer tool chain All of these are built on top of a language that has a pretty syntax and supports many language paradigms. The biggest con is the (weak) package ecosystem and community.
  - sgt 1y ago
    I think it's also important generally speaking - not just Dart/Flutter, but really any language ecosystem, to not blindly start adding packages. You'll end up with conflicts and Dart is no exception. Sometimes it is sensible to vendor a library into your own source code tree, or just build it yourself ("Own it").
  - Alifatisk 1y ago
    When making bullet points, I think you have to add a empty line in-between each point so it gets rendered as a list
- sgt 1y ago
  Having developed Flutter apps for a few years now (albeit not full time), I have to say that Dart is simply a pleasure to work in. The language - at least - doesn't hold you back at all. I guess it's kinda like Java should have been.
sgt 1y ago
This is promising. I just did a review of some of the code and the premise of the platform, this is clearly not your first rodeo in gaming. I wish you luck! I might consider sponsoring as well.
- joemanaco 1y ago
  Thank you.
voidUpdate 1y ago
> Writing games is fun again Was it not before? The only parts I've not enjoyed in the past has been working with a team that didn't pull their weight. What part of this makes it fun again?
- joemanaco 1y ago
  Yes, maybe it's a stupid thing to say. My thought was that the simplicity of the API takes out a lot of the complexity of it compared to engines with complex structures, entity hierarchies, event systems and features that need to fit a wide range of genres. Especially if you want to make something simple or just a prototype.
  - voidUpdate 1y ago
    Probably better to say "Writing games is simple again" or something then. Though engines like unity or unreal would make 3d games a lot simpler to make than this, so it's only some kinds of games
    - joemanaco 1y ago
      You're right. I fixed it ;)
_stillmind 1y ago
I haven't used Flame engine, but I know it already exists as a way to make games in Dart. So, if someone like me is curious about making a game in Dart, it would be nice to know the pros/cons of using this versus using Flame. Maybe remaking Flame's Klondike tutorial, or one of the others, using Bullseye to help show the distinct advantages that this engine brings over other solutions? It's not very obvious to me when this would be the right choice for me over Flame. Nevertheless, it's cool to see something new come to the scene for game dev in Dart. Thanks for making this!
- joemanaco 1y ago
  I don't have looked into Flame too much, but I would say the main difference is that Flame builds on top of Flutter while right now Bullseye2D only builds on the web package. Flame offers more out-of-the-box features, while with Bullseye2D you have to build many things yourself, but it doesn't force you into a predefined structure as much. The API is more prodcedural style, making it relatively quick to learen in its entirety, without too much "magic" happening under the hood. I think for most people Flame would be the better choice (it is also been around longer, which means better support...), however, I really love extremly simple approaches. I also believe it has advantages when you tailor your systems and architecture to your own requirements. Lots of stuff in 2D Game Development is also extremly simple (so often having to deal with a complex physics module or rendering pipeline or entity component system is contraproductive).
Alifatisk 1y ago
Cool project, its very refreshing to see Dart lang being highlighted like this. It definitely deserves it. I feel like the music player example has lots of potential for other things, not just for games. https://bullseye2d.org/bullseye2d-demos https://bullseye2d.org/bullseye2d-demos
rcore 1y ago
Great project! I always love seeing new game engines, and it’s even better that it’s in Dart.

98 points by joemanaco 1y ago

munificent 1y ago

This is so cool! I love it.

joemanaco 1y ago
Thanks. Hearing that from someone who works on Dart and wrote two books I’ve read makes the compliment really special to me :)

devrandoom 1y ago

The Boing game doesn't work mobile, is that by design?

joemanaco 1y ago
I ported this game from the Book "Code The Classics" which was written in Python/PyGame. It should be relativley easy to add mobile touch inputs to it, but I didn't have time for that yet.
- stpedgwdgfhgdd 1y ago
  Probably worth it as most people read HN on tablet or phone. What is potentially a problem is the lack of training material for AI agents to generate games on top of this platform.
  - lionkor 1y ago
    You can just read the documentation and write code, there's really no need for AI here. Your argument sounds a bit like "What is a problem is that I cant enjoy my hourly whisky while driving". Maybe the problem isn't the platform :)
  - bovermyer 1y ago
    Anecdotally, I never use HN on mobile devices. I don't have access to data for HN device usage. Do you? "Training material for AI agents?" The lack of such is not a problem. AI agents are an adversary for many, not a target.

leecommamichael 1y ago

> An easy-to-use, high-performance 2D game library for Dart. This is one of those things you say to interest people. To put their concerns to rest that it might not be able to make the game they want. It doesn't really mean anything. No absolute measurements or relative comparisons.

nurettin 1y ago
To me it just means that they are satisfied with their work. Enough to announce success and joy.
ghurtado 1y ago
Surely this isn't the first time you see software that claims high performance and speed without any hard benchmarks attached. You can benchmark an algorithm or a small piece of code, but for something like a game library, the definition of what is "fast" and what isn't is too dependent on context to be meaningful. That doesn't mean that the statement is useless: it tells me that this is, at least partially, one of the goals of the library.
- Joel_Mckay 1y ago
  For most folks I think they use an fps score while not sacrificing aesthetic quality or game play experience. i.e. The engine is considered lower quality if it is laggy, generates DLSS chowder, or glitches up on some hardware. The people responsible for shader cache performance get a lot of grief given the performance hit in unpredictable play contexts is often very noticeable. The Unreal devs made it look deceptively easy. =3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWS8Mg-JWSg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWS8Mg-JWSg
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

zxexz 1y ago

I really hate to be that guy, but I don't see a single screenshot/demo on the main page.

rodnim 1y ago
Click "Showcase" in the main top menu.
niekiepriekie 1y ago
Well, it does seem a bit hidden and the demo's are a bit simple. The Pong demo doesn't seem to work on safari desktop (When playing, the ball stops after 0.2 s . But he! You have to start somewhere. Good luck!

socalgal2 1y ago

I hope this isn't off topic. What is the draw of Dart? In other words, what does it claim to do special or emphasize over other langauges? Like if you were going to try to convince someone they should give Dart a try, what reasons would you give?

isoos 1y ago
Modern, but sane syntax (readable), good defaults (strong typing, null safety...), good-enough runtime performance, good APIs and tooling out of the box, cross-platform (also hot-reload on some, AOT). The list goes on, what specifics do you care about more?
freitzzz 1y ago
I would say that the best benefits are: - Cross Compilation (even wasm and js) out of the box - Simple concurrency model, similar to NodeJS - Ability to use it on a popular cross platform framework (flutter) - Hot reload capibilities (has JIT and AOT mode) - Strong developer tool chain All of these are built on top of a language that has a pretty syntax and supports many language paradigms. The biggest con is the (weak) package ecosystem and community.
- sgt 1y ago
  I think it's also important generally speaking - not just Dart/Flutter, but really any language ecosystem, to not blindly start adding packages. You'll end up with conflicts and Dart is no exception. Sometimes it is sensible to vendor a library into your own source code tree, or just build it yourself ("Own it").
- Alifatisk 1y ago
  When making bullet points, I think you have to add a empty line in-between each point so it gets rendered as a list
sgt 1y ago
Having developed Flutter apps for a few years now (albeit not full time), I have to say that Dart is simply a pleasure to work in. The language - at least - doesn't hold you back at all. I guess it's kinda like Java should have been.

sgt 1y ago

This is promising. I just did a review of some of the code and the premise of the platform, this is clearly not your first rodeo in gaming. I wish you luck! I might consider sponsoring as well.

joemanaco 1y ago
Thank you.

voidUpdate 1y ago

> Writing games is fun again Was it not before? The only parts I've not enjoyed in the past has been working with a team that didn't pull their weight. What part of this makes it fun again?

joemanaco 1y ago
Yes, maybe it's a stupid thing to say. My thought was that the simplicity of the API takes out a lot of the complexity of it compared to engines with complex structures, entity hierarchies, event systems and features that need to fit a wide range of genres. Especially if you want to make something simple or just a prototype.
- voidUpdate 1y ago
  Probably better to say "Writing games is simple again" or something then. Though engines like unity or unreal would make 3d games a lot simpler to make than this, so it's only some kinds of games
  - joemanaco 1y ago
    You're right. I fixed it ;)

_stillmind 1y ago

I haven't used Flame engine, but I know it already exists as a way to make games in Dart. So, if someone like me is curious about making a game in Dart, it would be nice to know the pros/cons of using this versus using Flame. Maybe remaking Flame's Klondike tutorial, or one of the others, using Bullseye to help show the distinct advantages that this engine brings over other solutions? It's not very obvious to me when this would be the right choice for me over Flame. Nevertheless, it's cool to see something new come to the scene for game dev in Dart. Thanks for making this!

joemanaco 1y ago
I don't have looked into Flame too much, but I would say the main difference is that Flame builds on top of Flutter while right now Bullseye2D only builds on the web package. Flame offers more out-of-the-box features, while with Bullseye2D you have to build many things yourself, but it doesn't force you into a predefined structure as much. The API is more prodcedural style, making it relatively quick to learen in its entirety, without too much "magic" happening under the hood. I think for most people Flame would be the better choice (it is also been around longer, which means better support...), however, I really love extremly simple approaches. I also believe it has advantages when you tailor your systems and architecture to your own requirements. Lots of stuff in 2D Game Development is also extremly simple (so often having to deal with a complex physics module or rendering pipeline or entity component system is contraproductive).

Alifatisk 1y ago

Cool project, its very refreshing to see Dart lang being highlighted like this. It definitely deserves it. I feel like the music player example has lots of potential for other things, not just for games. https://bullseye2d.org/bullseye2d-demos https://bullseye2d.org/bullseye2d-demos

rcore 1y ago

Great project! I always love seeing new game engines, and it’s even better that it’s in Dart.