6 ms·

Sounds like you now need to start lawsuits in every state?

by wdb 1y ago

mannyv 1y ago
They need to do two things: 1. File a suit in every circuit 2. Request an injunction type that's more appropriate Given the number of babies being born every day it shouldn't be hard to do. The thing is, the US doesn't issue citizenship papers. So I suppose they need to apply for an SSN and get denied (since the baby is a non-citizen), which will show immediate harm. It also begs the question: if that baby is illegal can it be deported?
- bluecalm 1y ago
  My understanding is that the administration's position is that at least one of the parents needs to be a citizen or a legal resident. If that's the case the answer to your question is: yes - together with the parents.
  - PleasureBot 1y ago
    I suppose the recourse the Supreme Court is offering is that the baby (or more likely the parents) can sue when the citizenship is denied. At which point I'd just expect ICE to arrest and deport them when they show up to court for their lawsuit.
  - dontlikeyoueith 1y ago
    And if the parents are on valid non-resident visas? Suddenly the child has no status? Moreover, there is literally no mechanism to prove that your parents are citizens. Millions of citizens will be at the whim of whatever racist thug decides to hurt them that day. Welcome to Fascist America.
    - NoMoreNicksLeft 1y ago
      [flagged]
    - themaninthedark 1y ago
      I would assume that the child would be registered with the embassy that the parents are citizens of and there would be an application for a non-resident visa that would be fast tracked. Greenland, Finland, Norway and Sweden all have no concept of Jus Soli and as far as I know, kids born to non-residents aren't being deported from the hospital. >Moreover, there is literally no mechanism to prove that your parents are citizens. I would think a birth certificate would work....
      - 20after4 1y ago
        > I would think a birth certificate would work Without birthright citizenship, a birth certificate no longer implies citizenship.
      - slater 1y ago
        >I would think a birth certificate would work.... Remember when the whole entirety of the US right-wing lost their goddamned minds for a year or so re: a sitting president's birth certificate?
        paulryanrogers 1y ago
        Well, having a POC as president was a pretty shocking circumstance in their minds. A means to quickly deport him was too exciting to overlook.
      - ceejayoz 1y ago
        > I would think a birth certificate would work.... You'd probably be wrong. > Still, Immigration and Customs Enforcement kept Watson imprisoned as a deportable alien for nearly 3 1/2 years… Watson was correct all along: He was a U.S. citizen. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/01/540903038/u-s-citizen-held-by-immigration-for-3-years-denied-compensation-by-appeals-court https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/01/540903038... Bonus: They held him long enough the statute of limitations to sue expired. > On Monday, an appeals court ruled that Watson, now 32, is not eligible for any of that money — because while his case is "disturbing," the statute of limitations actually expired while he was still in ICE custody without a lawyer. Even a passport isn't enough: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hamedaleaziz/us-born-marine-ice-detained-passport https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hamedaleaziz/us-born-ma... > A US-born Marine veteran who served in Afghanistan had his US passport, a REAL ID driver’s license, a military ID card, and his US Marine Corps dog tags with him when he was arrested by police in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and turned over to Immigration and Customs Enforcement, which held him for three days before his lawyer demanded his release, according to the ACLU of Michigan. https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/trump-ice-detained-citizenship-proof.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/trump-ice-detained-c... > In her study, she found that, on average, U.S. citizens detained by ICE spent 180 days behind bars.
    - bluecalm 1y ago
      Most of the world doesn't have unconditional birth right citizenship. It somehow functions and is not fascist.
      - cjk 1y ago
        The bit that’s fascist is that birthright citizenship is guaranteed in the US Constitution, and the current administration is openly flouting it.
        Amezarak 1y ago
        The debate is over what "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" means, it's misleading to simply announce it's guaranteed - the whole legal argument is over whether it is guaranteed.
        magicalist 1y ago
        > it's misleading to simply announce it's guaranteed. Let's not pretend all assertions are equally worth entertaining. Maybe it's "misleading" if you're Stephen Miller, but every court case where it's ever been heard and the legislative record at the time of adopting the 14th amendment show that citizenship is guaranteed. The Trump administration hasn't even raised it in appeals!
        Amezarak 1y ago
        The author of the clause didn't think it applied to the children of aliens, so it doesn't seem crazy to me. > Howard said that the clause "is simply declaratory of what I regard as the law of the land already, that every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States."[30] He added that citizenship "will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons"[30]—a comment which would later raise questions as to whether Congress had originally intended that U.S.-born children of foreign parents were to be included as citizens.[32]
  - EasyMark 1y ago
    but the amendment doesn't say that, it's a very simple Amendment at its heart.
- treetalker 1y ago
  One upshot may be that the law will be drastically different in the several circuits and (unless SCOTUS plans to handle everything on the emergency docket — as it did here) it will stay that way so long as SCOTUS lets the issues percolate through them (using them as laboratories, as Justice O'Connor was fond of saying).
- crooked-v 1y ago
  > and get denied The thing here is that instead of officially denying it, the administration will just "coincidentally" slow-walk everything indefinitely, then illegally exile the baby to Sudan when ICE notices they don't have proof of citizenship.
  - mannyv 1y ago
    [flagged]
dragonwriter 1y ago
> Sounds like you now need to start lawsuits in every state? Every federal judicial district (that's one per state in smaller states, but more in larger states—California has four.)
- buckle8017 1y ago
  Doesn't California have two? North and South?
  - dragonwriter 1y ago
    Northern, Southern, Eastern, and Central. https://www.caed.uscourts.gov/caednew/index.cfm/cmecf-e-filing/jurisdiction-and-venue/ https://www.caed.uscourts.gov/caednew/index.cfm/cmecf-e-fili...
    - buckle8017 1y ago
      Did that change recently, id swear there was only two options on.
      - dragonwriter 1y ago
        Not that recently; the change from 2 to 4 was in 1966. https://www.uscourts.gov/about-federal-courts/about-federal-judges/authorized-judgeships/chronological-history-authorized-judgeships-district-courts#ca https://www.uscourts.gov/about-federal-courts/about-federal-...
        jimt1234 1y ago
        Well, I'm confident the number will go back to 2 by the end of this current presidential term.

Sounds like you now need to start lawsuits in every state?

by wdb 1y ago

Sounds like you now need to start lawsuits in every state?

They need to do two things: 1. File a suit in every circuit 2. Request an injunction type that's more appropriate Given the number of babies being born every day it shouldn't be hard to do. The thing is, the US doesn't issue citizenship papers. So I suppose they need to apply for an SSN and get denied (since the baby is a non-citizen), which will show immediate harm. It also begs the question: if that baby is illegal can it be deported?

bluecalm 1y ago
My understanding is that the administration's position is that at least one of the parents needs to be a citizen or a legal resident. If that's the case the answer to your question is: yes - together with the parents.
- PleasureBot 1y ago
  I suppose the recourse the Supreme Court is offering is that the baby (or more likely the parents) can sue when the citizenship is denied. At which point I'd just expect ICE to arrest and deport them when they show up to court for their lawsuit.
- dontlikeyoueith 1y ago
  And if the parents are on valid non-resident visas? Suddenly the child has no status? Moreover, there is literally no mechanism to prove that your parents are citizens. Millions of citizens will be at the whim of whatever racist thug decides to hurt them that day. Welcome to Fascist America.
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 1y ago
    [flagged]
  - themaninthedark 1y ago
    I would assume that the child would be registered with the embassy that the parents are citizens of and there would be an application for a non-resident visa that would be fast tracked. Greenland, Finland, Norway and Sweden all have no concept of Jus Soli and as far as I know, kids born to non-residents aren't being deported from the hospital. >Moreover, there is literally no mechanism to prove that your parents are citizens. I would think a birth certificate would work....
    - 20after4 1y ago
      > I would think a birth certificate would work Without birthright citizenship, a birth certificate no longer implies citizenship.
    - slater 1y ago
      >I would think a birth certificate would work.... Remember when the whole entirety of the US right-wing lost their goddamned minds for a year or so re: a sitting president's birth certificate?
      - paulryanrogers 1y ago
        Well, having a POC as president was a pretty shocking circumstance in their minds. A means to quickly deport him was too exciting to overlook.
    - ceejayoz 1y ago
      > I would think a birth certificate would work.... You'd probably be wrong. > Still, Immigration and Customs Enforcement kept Watson imprisoned as a deportable alien for nearly 3 1/2 years… Watson was correct all along: He was a U.S. citizen. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/01/540903038/u-s-citizen-held-by-immigration-for-3-years-denied-compensation-by-appeals-court https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/01/540903038... Bonus: They held him long enough the statute of limitations to sue expired. > On Monday, an appeals court ruled that Watson, now 32, is not eligible for any of that money — because while his case is "disturbing," the statute of limitations actually expired while he was still in ICE custody without a lawyer. Even a passport isn't enough: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hamedaleaziz/us-born-marine-ice-detained-passport https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/hamedaleaziz/us-born-ma... > A US-born Marine veteran who served in Afghanistan had his US passport, a REAL ID driver’s license, a military ID card, and his US Marine Corps dog tags with him when he was arrested by police in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and turned over to Immigration and Customs Enforcement, which held him for three days before his lawyer demanded his release, according to the ACLU of Michigan. https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/trump-ice-detained-citizenship-proof.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/trump-ice-detained-c... > In her study, she found that, on average, U.S. citizens detained by ICE spent 180 days behind bars.
  - bluecalm 1y ago
    Most of the world doesn't have unconditional birth right citizenship. It somehow functions and is not fascist.
    - cjk 1y ago
      The bit that’s fascist is that birthright citizenship is guaranteed in the US Constitution, and the current administration is openly flouting it.
      - Amezarak 1y ago
        The debate is over what "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" means, it's misleading to simply announce it's guaranteed - the whole legal argument is over whether it is guaranteed.
        magicalist 1y ago
        > it's misleading to simply announce it's guaranteed. Let's not pretend all assertions are equally worth entertaining. Maybe it's "misleading" if you're Stephen Miller, but every court case where it's ever been heard and the legislative record at the time of adopting the 14th amendment show that citizenship is guaranteed. The Trump administration hasn't even raised it in appeals!
        Amezarak 1y ago
        The author of the clause didn't think it applied to the children of aliens, so it doesn't seem crazy to me. > Howard said that the clause "is simply declaratory of what I regard as the law of the land already, that every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States."[30] He added that citizenship "will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons"[30]—a comment which would later raise questions as to whether Congress had originally intended that U.S.-born children of foreign parents were to be included as citizens.[32]
- EasyMark 1y ago
  but the amendment doesn't say that, it's a very simple Amendment at its heart.
treetalker 1y ago
One upshot may be that the law will be drastically different in the several circuits and (unless SCOTUS plans to handle everything on the emergency docket — as it did here) it will stay that way so long as SCOTUS lets the issues percolate through them (using them as laboratories, as Justice O'Connor was fond of saying).
crooked-v 1y ago
> and get denied The thing here is that instead of officially denying it, the administration will just "coincidentally" slow-walk everything indefinitely, then illegally exile the baby to Sudan when ICE notices they don't have proof of citizenship.
- mannyv 1y ago
  [flagged]

dragonwriter 1y ago

> Sounds like you now need to start lawsuits in every state? Every federal judicial district (that's one per state in smaller states, but more in larger states—California has four.)

buckle8017 1y ago
Doesn't California have two? North and South?
- dragonwriter 1y ago
  Northern, Southern, Eastern, and Central. https://www.caed.uscourts.gov/caednew/index.cfm/cmecf-e-filing/jurisdiction-and-venue/ https://www.caed.uscourts.gov/caednew/index.cfm/cmecf-e-fili...
  - buckle8017 1y ago
    Did that change recently, id swear there was only two options on.
    - dragonwriter 1y ago
      Not that recently; the change from 2 to 4 was in 1966. https://www.uscourts.gov/about-federal-courts/about-federal-judges/authorized-judgeships/chronological-history-authorized-judgeships-district-courts#ca https://www.uscourts.gov/about-federal-courts/about-federal-...
      - jimt1234 1y ago
        Well, I'm confident the number will go back to 2 by the end of this current presidential term.