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One of the most upsetting things about our current state of governance is gamed metrics and lack of a national metrics "dashboard." Metrics are gamed as market

One of the most upsetting things about our current state of governance is gamed metrics and lack of a national metrics "dashboard." Metrics are gamed as marketing tools rather than assessment tools. There's a clear conflict of interest in the government presenting the metrics that it says to judge them by. Unemployment is another gamed metric. If you want to get a sense of unemployment, a graph of % employed tells you more than some gamed number like "unemployment" since "unemployment" is a direct measure of political success. Consumer spending/GDP are also directly used to measure political success, and a metric like "aggregate Visa/Mastercard purchases" is going to give a much better sense of how much people are spending. During COVID, all cause mortality is a superior metric than COVID attributed deaths because any death attributed to COVID represented a failure of public health policy. We even saw direct attacks on public health monitoring in Florida. It seems like the only ways to combat this are either states presenting their own metrics to imply national trends based on their own. I definitely wonder what kind of information we could get that is accurate and not gamed to create our own dashboards. Geohot's use of national energy consumption to estimate national productivity was sharp and the type of thing I wish journalists would do.

rrrrrrrrrrrryan 1y ago
Politicians brag about the U-3 unemployment (that they've gamed), but actual economists look at U-6 (unless they need to do a comparison going back a century, when U-6 didn't yet exist). During covid politicians bragged about covid attributed deaths, while public health experts were discussing all cause mortality. This is the case everywhere. Quality metrics are absolutely out there - you just have to give enough of a shit to look at them.
randomNumber7 1y ago
So you are in favor of temporally changing the GDP formula to fit your mindset better?
kasey_junk 1y ago
GDP, consumer spending, unemployment are some of the most inspected numbers in the world. Not only are they rigorously defined and tested by the government and academia there are whole swaths of finance attuned to them. And no one who uses them seriously doesn’t understand their weaknesses. At a macro level all signals have flaws, knowing what they are and how to deal with them is the whole job of many people. You can find huge swaths of research comparing and contrasting the ADP number vs the official bls stat but no one serious thinks ADP is _better_ than the the headline unemployment number because it can’t be gamed.
dghlsakjg 1y ago
I don't think you know the space very well. Go to FRED, it is the largest of many that is a fantastic unbiased dashboard of governmental and societal data for the US. They even have almost the exact data that you would say is useful about CC spending. Here is all of the data that they publish about credit cards[1]. It has a lot more data than just the aggregate data from two of the credit card providers. The people that gather and publish the data are historically pretty unbiased and open about methods. You can go get the raw data and methods. Some of the places that publish them like FRED, are not even under direct political jurisdiction. They are not at all the part of the government that is affected by the data they publish, and being run by a reserve bank puts them at pretty far reach from meddling by DC. You can't stop politicians from using the data they like most, but don't pretend that ALL of the data isn't available in useful format. 1. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/tags/series?t=credit+cards https://fred.stlouisfed.org/tags/series?t=credit+cards
- TheOtherHobbes 1y ago
  It's not the data, it's the media narrative. No one cares if there are detailed breakouts of key economic indicators available somewhere obscure [1] if most people get their opinions from the media, and the media are in the propaganda and marketing business, not the truth-to-power business. [1] Not media-quoted or foregrounded for the public.
  - dghlsakjg 1y ago
    That's a goal-post shift. GP were complaining that accurate, fulsome statistics aren't there, when they are. The media narrative is out of the control of the various statistics bodies, and it is up to the informed reader to seek out better sources if the article they are reading has scanty info. For the record though, FRED is frequently cited as a source in reputable mainstream media (I see it in the NYT all the time). Read The Economist some time, that's an international news source that will deeply report on these stats. Can't be helped if people prefer Fox or other garbage as their news diet. You are complaining about media literacy and bad journalism, which is an entirely separate issue from the fact that the data both exists, and is extremely easy to access.
protocolture 1y ago
>Metrics are gamed as marketing tools rather than assessment tools. Macro metrics are marketing tools largely. In Australia we had a long period of "Lower Taxes" Vs "Lower Taxes (As a proportion of GDP)" The issue being that the latter didnt actually lower taxes, they just spent more money, increasing GDP. These metrics are helpful sometimes in review. But in terms of targets they suck.
datavirtue 1y ago
The calculations are 100% transparent. Reminds me of the red hat crowd bleeting about how the numbers are "adjusted." Like it's some kind of conspiracy. It's all well known. If you understand it and choose not to like it, well ignore it and cook up your own stat. You can find the formulas and get the data. No secrets.
mensetmanusman 1y ago
Every metric is a lossy compression algorithm of reality: “”Unemployment is another gamed metric. If you want to get a sense of unemployment, a graph of % employed tells you more than some gamed number like "unemployment" since "unemployment" is a direct measure of political success.”” Even in this case, you may have to normalize to the population pyramid that is inverting because the age is shifting to much older than prior.
jaredklewis 1y ago
Marketing for the government? Only a tiny sliver of the population gives these metrics any thought. Certainly politicians don’t. Econometrics is a political loser; culture wars and other qualitative arguments decide elections. When politicians do bring out numbers, they cherry pick dramatic examples like the price of eggs, not meaningful stuff like CPI or GDP.

rrrrrrrrrrrryan 1y ago

Politicians brag about the U-3 unemployment (that they've gamed), but actual economists look at U-6 (unless they need to do a comparison going back a century, when U-6 didn't yet exist). During covid politicians bragged about covid attributed deaths, while public health experts were discussing all cause mortality. This is the case everywhere. Quality metrics are absolutely out there - you just have to give enough of a shit to look at them.

randomNumber7 1y ago

So you are in favor of temporally changing the GDP formula to fit your mindset better?

kasey_junk 1y ago

GDP, consumer spending, unemployment are some of the most inspected numbers in the world. Not only are they rigorously defined and tested by the government and academia there are whole swaths of finance attuned to them. And no one who uses them seriously doesn’t understand their weaknesses. At a macro level all signals have flaws, knowing what they are and how to deal with them is the whole job of many people. You can find huge swaths of research comparing and contrasting the ADP number vs the official bls stat but no one serious thinks ADP is _better_ than the the headline unemployment number because it can’t be gamed.

dghlsakjg 1y ago

I don't think you know the space very well. Go to FRED, it is the largest of many that is a fantastic unbiased dashboard of governmental and societal data for the US. They even have almost the exact data that you would say is useful about CC spending. Here is all of the data that they publish about credit cards[1]. It has a lot more data than just the aggregate data from two of the credit card providers. The people that gather and publish the data are historically pretty unbiased and open about methods. You can go get the raw data and methods. Some of the places that publish them like FRED, are not even under direct political jurisdiction. They are not at all the part of the government that is affected by the data they publish, and being run by a reserve bank puts them at pretty far reach from meddling by DC. You can't stop politicians from using the data they like most, but don't pretend that ALL of the data isn't available in useful format. 1. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/tags/series?t=credit+cards https://fred.stlouisfed.org/tags/series?t=credit+cards

TheOtherHobbes 1y ago
It's not the data, it's the media narrative. No one cares if there are detailed breakouts of key economic indicators available somewhere obscure [1] if most people get their opinions from the media, and the media are in the propaganda and marketing business, not the truth-to-power business. [1] Not media-quoted or foregrounded for the public.
- dghlsakjg 1y ago
  That's a goal-post shift. GP were complaining that accurate, fulsome statistics aren't there, when they are. The media narrative is out of the control of the various statistics bodies, and it is up to the informed reader to seek out better sources if the article they are reading has scanty info. For the record though, FRED is frequently cited as a source in reputable mainstream media (I see it in the NYT all the time). Read The Economist some time, that's an international news source that will deeply report on these stats. Can't be helped if people prefer Fox or other garbage as their news diet. You are complaining about media literacy and bad journalism, which is an entirely separate issue from the fact that the data both exists, and is extremely easy to access.

protocolture 1y ago

>Metrics are gamed as marketing tools rather than assessment tools. Macro metrics are marketing tools largely. In Australia we had a long period of "Lower Taxes" Vs "Lower Taxes (As a proportion of GDP)" The issue being that the latter didnt actually lower taxes, they just spent more money, increasing GDP. These metrics are helpful sometimes in review. But in terms of targets they suck.

datavirtue 1y ago

The calculations are 100% transparent. Reminds me of the red hat crowd bleeting about how the numbers are "adjusted." Like it's some kind of conspiracy. It's all well known. If you understand it and choose not to like it, well ignore it and cook up your own stat. You can find the formulas and get the data. No secrets.

mensetmanusman 1y ago

Every metric is a lossy compression algorithm of reality: “”Unemployment is another gamed metric. If you want to get a sense of unemployment, a graph of % employed tells you more than some gamed number like "unemployment" since "unemployment" is a direct measure of political success.”” Even in this case, you may have to normalize to the population pyramid that is inverting because the age is shifting to much older than prior.

jaredklewis 1y ago

Marketing for the government? Only a tiny sliver of the population gives these metrics any thought. Certainly politicians don’t. Econometrics is a political loser; culture wars and other qualitative arguments decide elections. When politicians do bring out numbers, they cherry pick dramatic examples like the price of eggs, not meaningful stuff like CPI or GDP.