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Michigan unfortunately represents a mismatch of when you need power vs when power is generated. Arizona, Texas, New Mexico are sweet spots. High power demand in

by whall6 1y ago

Michigan unfortunately represents a mismatch of when you need power vs when power is generated. Arizona, Texas, New Mexico are sweet spots. High power demand in the summer (A/C), relatively high proportion of sunny days.

Scoundreller 1y ago
Michigan is just like the south: highest electricity consumption is during summer. This may change with increased use of heat pumps for heating, but it’s still a while out before seasonal electricity consumption patterns invert. +/- on what effect electric cars will have: people drive more in summer but efficiency goes down in winter. Arizona, Florida, etc are not really in a sweet spot we all think it is because PV efficiency/output goes marginally down when it’s really hot (ie: when A/C demand peaks). Unless you install the panels at high altitude.
- eldaisfish 1y ago
  we are likely there already. Ontario, just to the north of Michigan, already has a winter peak very close to the summer peak. The provinces subsidises heat pumps. Ontario will be a winter peaking region in a couple of years.
  - Scoundreller 1y ago
    Annual demand in Ontario peaked 20 years ago and has been overall flat for 3+ decades. https://www.ieso.ca/power-data/demand-overview/historical-demand https://www.ieso.ca/power-data/demand-overview/historical-de... Surprisingly difficult to find monthly data though :(
- whall6 1y ago
  Interesting that PV efficiency is impacted by peak heat. Why are there so many solar farms in the desert near Las Vegas and in West Texas then? Serious question, would love to know the answer. Are these inefficiencies just now coming to light?
  - philipkglass 1y ago
    The effect has long been known, but it's pretty modest. Here's the data sheet for a typical modern solar panel: https://static.trinasolar.com/sites/default/files/Datasheet_NEG21C.20.pdf https://static.trinasolar.com/sites/default/files/Datasheet_... It loses about 0.29% of (relative) power output for every degree Celsius of temperature increase. If the module is operating at its maximum rated temperature of 85 degrees C, it's still about 83% as efficient as it would be under standard test conditions (25 degrees C). Solar farms in sunny, hot regions generate more energy per year than identical installations in cooler, less sunny regions. The benefit of extra light dominates over the efficiency loss from higher temperatures. A location with as much sunlight as Las Vegas but the temperatures of Anchorage would be ideal, but there are few if any locations with those characteristics. That's why Las Vegas is still a good location for solar farms despite the heat.
    - Scoundreller 1y ago
      That’s why you want high altitude to get the sun without the heat. I carefully left New Mexico out of my list of “not seeet spots” for that reason. I did see some citizen science that showed a cooling fan added more power overall to panels, but I guess that’s another moving part and the way the subsidies work… who cares about increasing panel life.

by whall6 1y ago

Scoundreller 1y ago

Michigan is just like the south: highest electricity consumption is during summer. This may change with increased use of heat pumps for heating, but it’s still a while out before seasonal electricity consumption patterns invert. +/- on what effect electric cars will have: people drive more in summer but efficiency goes down in winter. Arizona, Florida, etc are not really in a sweet spot we all think it is because PV efficiency/output goes marginally down when it’s really hot (ie: when A/C demand peaks). Unless you install the panels at high altitude.

eldaisfish 1y ago
we are likely there already. Ontario, just to the north of Michigan, already has a winter peak very close to the summer peak. The provinces subsidises heat pumps. Ontario will be a winter peaking region in a couple of years.
- Scoundreller 1y ago
  Annual demand in Ontario peaked 20 years ago and has been overall flat for 3+ decades. https://www.ieso.ca/power-data/demand-overview/historical-demand https://www.ieso.ca/power-data/demand-overview/historical-de... Surprisingly difficult to find monthly data though :(
whall6 1y ago
Interesting that PV efficiency is impacted by peak heat. Why are there so many solar farms in the desert near Las Vegas and in West Texas then? Serious question, would love to know the answer. Are these inefficiencies just now coming to light?
- philipkglass 1y ago
  The effect has long been known, but it's pretty modest. Here's the data sheet for a typical modern solar panel: https://static.trinasolar.com/sites/default/files/Datasheet_NEG21C.20.pdf https://static.trinasolar.com/sites/default/files/Datasheet_... It loses about 0.29% of (relative) power output for every degree Celsius of temperature increase. If the module is operating at its maximum rated temperature of 85 degrees C, it's still about 83% as efficient as it would be under standard test conditions (25 degrees C). Solar farms in sunny, hot regions generate more energy per year than identical installations in cooler, less sunny regions. The benefit of extra light dominates over the efficiency loss from higher temperatures. A location with as much sunlight as Las Vegas but the temperatures of Anchorage would be ideal, but there are few if any locations with those characteristics. That's why Las Vegas is still a good location for solar farms despite the heat.
  - Scoundreller 1y ago
    That’s why you want high altitude to get the sun without the heat. I carefully left New Mexico out of my list of “not seeet spots” for that reason. I did see some citizen science that showed a cooling fan added more power overall to panels, but I guess that’s another moving part and the way the subsidies work… who cares about increasing panel life.