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True energy independence in even a small capacity has a value beyond just money.

cjaackie 1y ago
True [x] independence in even a small capacity has a value beyond just money. ..water.. ..food.. ..housing.. ..information.. I get what you are trying to conveying, I just wanted to highlight the semantic generality of the statement if it stands alone.
- zdragnar 1y ago
  If you have a house in the countryside, then water and food are relatively easy. You've got your own well and septic system for water, and plenty of room to stock up on food, plus you can supplement your diet by growing your own vegetables and raising chickens, fishing or hunting as seasonally appropriate per your local regulations. The well and septic system require no real effort on your part once installed, though you may find harvesting your own food to be too time consuming or labor intensive to really be actually independent.
  - nradov 1y ago
    Lol. I grew up in a house in the countryside. Dealing with the well, water storage tank, and pressure booster pump were far from "easy". They required frequent maintenance and occasional large expenses. The well got clogged with sand. The pump motor burned out. The tank float sensor got stuck and caused an overflow (several times). The tank had to be emptied and cleaned. An earthquake caused a pipe to shear off and dumped thousands of gallons of water out of the tank. The pressure booster pump burned out. The pressure booster tank corroded and leaked. The water was hard and required a softener to prevent mineral buildup. Etc.
    - zdragnar 1y ago
      What is the water storage tank for? We've never needed one, and the only time I've heard of someone getting one was for trapping rainwater or they were a farmer. I've lived with well water for all of my life except my college years and a few years after. In all that time, the only maintenance that's been needed has been to replace a water pressure tank (not a difficult job unless you've never seen hand tools before) and adding salt to the softener once a blue moon. My sister in law had to get a new well put in, but that was because it needed a new well pump and the plumber she called told her he couldn't work on the existing one because it was out of code and her well wasn't grandfathered in.
      - nradov 1y ago
        The storage tank was for storing water. Obviously you don't want to run the well pump every time you flush the toilet.
        zdragnar 1y ago
        Sure, that's what the pressure tank is for. The well pump keeps the 20 gallon tank pressurized, and as the pressure drops the pump kicks on until it is stable again. Maybe you could get a bigger one if you have a large family, but I've never heard of one that would be large enough to dump that much water except for mountainside cabins that are too far from the water table for a well in the first place.
brk 1y ago
Yes, but on a limited budget solar may not always be the best option to some kind of energy independence. It really depends on what you are trying to solve for. Solar alone won't carry loads at night, the panels are generally not portable, they won't produce much output in the middle of a storm, etc. As an example, during one of the hurricanes that came through FL last year we lost power shortly after the storm hit. I had a smallish leak with water coming in, it was entirely manageable with a wetvac, running off my generator. But solar panels would have been producing zero output at the same time. Even a large battery bank would have been sufficient. IME, Solar is something where there is often a case where the minimum investment to get a truly worthwhile system is higher than other things like generators, or recently even battery banks. People often overlook all the situations where solar won't produce any output. I look at solar as more of a second-tier energy independence solution than a first-tier. And it worth nothing this is speaking primarily for applications in North America that have generally stable power. If you're in a remote area with no reliable power infrastructure then the parameters are way different.
- jonathanlydall 1y ago
  I got a solar system installed at end of 2022 due to working from home and the large amount of load shedding South Africa was having at the time. Was absolutely justifiable for me: https://imgur.com/a/hXeVAGr https://imgur.com/a/hXeVAGr (Worth noting that during load shedding only a subset of people are turned off depending on the stage of load shedding, but on average I experienced about 25% of those totals)
lostlogin 1y ago
The money aspect is interesting. Where I am the companies charge a ‘line charge’. It’s about 20-25% of the monthly bill. I generate somewhere between 80-110% of the power I need, but in winter I only get half what I need from solar. A larger system would cover this and negate the need for the line charge, suddenly saving a lot.

True [x] independence in even a small capacity has a value beyond just money. ..water.. ..food.. ..housing.. ..information.. I get what you are trying to conveying, I just wanted to highlight the semantic generality of the statement if it stands alone.

zdragnar 1y ago
If you have a house in the countryside, then water and food are relatively easy. You've got your own well and septic system for water, and plenty of room to stock up on food, plus you can supplement your diet by growing your own vegetables and raising chickens, fishing or hunting as seasonally appropriate per your local regulations. The well and septic system require no real effort on your part once installed, though you may find harvesting your own food to be too time consuming or labor intensive to really be actually independent.
- nradov 1y ago
  Lol. I grew up in a house in the countryside. Dealing with the well, water storage tank, and pressure booster pump were far from "easy". They required frequent maintenance and occasional large expenses. The well got clogged with sand. The pump motor burned out. The tank float sensor got stuck and caused an overflow (several times). The tank had to be emptied and cleaned. An earthquake caused a pipe to shear off and dumped thousands of gallons of water out of the tank. The pressure booster pump burned out. The pressure booster tank corroded and leaked. The water was hard and required a softener to prevent mineral buildup. Etc.
  - zdragnar 1y ago
    What is the water storage tank for? We've never needed one, and the only time I've heard of someone getting one was for trapping rainwater or they were a farmer. I've lived with well water for all of my life except my college years and a few years after. In all that time, the only maintenance that's been needed has been to replace a water pressure tank (not a difficult job unless you've never seen hand tools before) and adding salt to the softener once a blue moon. My sister in law had to get a new well put in, but that was because it needed a new well pump and the plumber she called told her he couldn't work on the existing one because it was out of code and her well wasn't grandfathered in.
    - nradov 1y ago
      The storage tank was for storing water. Obviously you don't want to run the well pump every time you flush the toilet.
      - zdragnar 1y ago
        Sure, that's what the pressure tank is for. The well pump keeps the 20 gallon tank pressurized, and as the pressure drops the pump kicks on until it is stable again. Maybe you could get a bigger one if you have a large family, but I've never heard of one that would be large enough to dump that much water except for mountainside cabins that are too far from the water table for a well in the first place.

brk 1y ago

Yes, but on a limited budget solar may not always be the best option to some kind of energy independence. It really depends on what you are trying to solve for. Solar alone won't carry loads at night, the panels are generally not portable, they won't produce much output in the middle of a storm, etc. As an example, during one of the hurricanes that came through FL last year we lost power shortly after the storm hit. I had a smallish leak with water coming in, it was entirely manageable with a wetvac, running off my generator. But solar panels would have been producing zero output at the same time. Even a large battery bank would have been sufficient. IME, Solar is something where there is often a case where the minimum investment to get a truly worthwhile system is higher than other things like generators, or recently even battery banks. People often overlook all the situations where solar won't produce any output. I look at solar as more of a second-tier energy independence solution than a first-tier. And it worth nothing this is speaking primarily for applications in North America that have generally stable power. If you're in a remote area with no reliable power infrastructure then the parameters are way different.

jonathanlydall 1y ago
I got a solar system installed at end of 2022 due to working from home and the large amount of load shedding South Africa was having at the time. Was absolutely justifiable for me: https://imgur.com/a/hXeVAGr https://imgur.com/a/hXeVAGr (Worth noting that during load shedding only a subset of people are turned off depending on the stage of load shedding, but on average I experienced about 25% of those totals)

lostlogin 1y ago

The money aspect is interesting. Where I am the companies charge a ‘line charge’. It’s about 20-25% of the monthly bill. I generate somewhere between 80-110% of the power I need, but in winter I only get half what I need from solar. A larger system would cover this and negate the need for the line charge, suddenly saving a lot.