4 ms·

Based on decades of experience with my family: it's only political correctness when other people do it. When they do it, it's just common decency, common sense,

Based on decades of experience with my family: it's only political correctness when other people do it. When they do it, it's just common decency, common sense, family values, etc. And as far as the original story, individual border agents should absolutely not be doing this to people because they have a meme on their phone, doubly so one where Vance shared a version of it himself. There is straight up no justification for this. Dark days for the values the US professes to represent.

hermanzegerman 1y ago
What values does the US represent?
- mensetmanusman 1y ago
  You will only get edgy responses, most can’t comprehend what to think when people acting under a system of values fail to reach their proposed ideals.
- jasonwatkinspdx 1y ago
  Supposedly freedom of speech for one. Hard to see that as being real today.
  - gwbennett 1y ago
    It was harder to see during COVID.
    - Leszek 1y ago
      And yet here you are saying it.
- happytoexplain 1y ago
  Freedom seems like the obvious example here, unless I'm not catching your meaning.
- wk_end 1y ago
  Note that they said "professes to represent" (emphasis mine). What the US professes to represent and what it actually represents for various people aren't totally unrelated, but it's a relationship that's always been pretty fraught.
- surgical_fire 1y ago
  Based on the current administration, I can think of 14 words that I will refuse to repeat here.
  - Y_Y 1y ago
    I assume your referring to this > We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words and further that you're intending to use it as a burn on Trump and his government? Regardless of what you think about them and Neo-Nazis/white supremacists, I think it's unfair because the policies of the current administration with regard to war, debt, environmentalism etc. evince a total disregard for the futures of children of any colour.
    - surgical_fire 1y ago
      > I think it's unfair because the policies of the current administration with regard to war, debt, environmentalism etc. evince a total disregard for the futures of children of any colour. That is due to incompetence, not desire.
- ajuc 1y ago
  At this point mostly hypocrisy.
- snickerdoodle12 1y ago
  Hunting down brown people and shipping them off to concentration camps, based on what's been happening the past few months.
- LtWorf 1y ago
  violence, oppression, and hypocrisy about it all
harry8 1y ago
> doubly so one where Vance shared a version of it himself No. Should have precisely zero baring on anything at all. Reminder: Support of free speech requires support of the right to say things that you loathe by people you hate or you don’t support free speech.
- spiderice 1y ago
  > Reminder: Support of free speech requires support of the right to say things that you loathe by people you hate or you don’t support free speech. No it doesn't. You're putting arbitrary limits to suit your views. You can support free speech for American citizens and also support using a foreigner's speech to determine whether or not we allow them into the country. That's just smart border policy. We should be vetting who we allow into our country, and using their speech is one way to vet them. Obviously not allowing someone in over a bald JD Vance meme is stupid. But the idea that we have to allow all foreigners the same level of free speech without it affecting their chances of getting into the country is also stupid.
  - titzer 1y ago
    > We should be vetting who we allow into our country, and using their speech is one way to vet them. Who is this "we" and what rules govern these "we"? What are the consequences for this "we" just up and violating the rules or throwing those rules out altogether to grift, stay in power and persecute those they hate?
    - macinjosh 1y ago
      The we is the people elected through democratic means to execute the law and the people they appoint. Maybe someday the civilized world will realize democracy often ends in the case of two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner.
      - platevoltage 1y ago
        Oh come on. The very reason this is even happening is because the person with less votes was installed as president in 2016.
glenstein 1y ago
I know that the likes of fact checking and checking for hypocrisy draws eye rolls in the present environment (which in and of itself I find disappointing), but I do think an interesting variation on it would be to track what underlining principle is associated with any particular argument and to track adherence to principles over time. Of limited utility in an information ecosystem that's deeply indifferent to litigating disagreements on the basis of factual accuracy, but I feel like bsing your way out of inconsistent principles is at least harder.
slg 1y ago
>individual border agents should absolutely not be doing this One of the underdiscussed aspects of an authoritarian regime is that it creates countless little tyrants that all feel empowered to exert whatever power they have in any way they see fit.
- markx2 1y ago
  2006. O'Hare. I'm close to the front when exiting a UK > US plane. The 'agent' sees an implant (self-done years prior) in the back of my right hand. Calls it 'brutal'. I was directed to sit in a chair until way after the whole flight had disembarked. I was then questioned about my luggage, reasons for visiting. Some years later "Pull the guy with tattoos". Full search. Year or two after that, New York, pulled from the queue, directed to stand in a clear box. "Do not move your feet from those markings". My young daughter had to stand and watch. Another trip. My passport photo did not fit their criteria. "Why did you shave your head?" .. "Because it was hot" .. repeat that whole interaction several times. I am so so happy that I never have to visit the USA again and it's solely because of the 'people' assigned as 'guards'.
  - switchbak 1y ago
    I had automatic weapons pointed at me and yelled at AFTER being waved through the crossing at the Ambassador bridge. 2010 era. I guess they wanted a second look. Most border agents are brutal, regardless of the current administration. But things do seem to get worse when the Republicans/MAGA are in. I wouldn't even want to think about how they'll act if a big terrorist attack comes.
  - slg 1y ago
    Frankly, I think this type of comment minimizes what is happening here. These anecdotes are nothing close to what is detailed in the story and they don't sound particularly tyrannical or even necessarily out of line. As an American, I have experienced similar things when traveling abroad in other western countries. What this article describes is much worse.
  - DudeOpotomus 1y ago
skywhopper 1y ago
Unfortunately, it’s pretty clear that there are strict quotas in place and border agents are expected to refuse entry to a certain number of people every day. The quotas are set by delusional xenophobes and thus aren’t remotely realistic, but border agents must find someone to kick out, so they latch onto any excuse. It’s truly sad and pathetic and evil.

hermanzegerman 1y ago

What values does the US represent?

mensetmanusman 1y ago
You will only get edgy responses, most can’t comprehend what to think when people acting under a system of values fail to reach their proposed ideals.
jasonwatkinspdx 1y ago
Supposedly freedom of speech for one. Hard to see that as being real today.
- gwbennett 1y ago
  It was harder to see during COVID.
  - Leszek 1y ago
    And yet here you are saying it.
happytoexplain 1y ago
Freedom seems like the obvious example here, unless I'm not catching your meaning.
wk_end 1y ago
Note that they said "professes to represent" (emphasis mine). What the US professes to represent and what it actually represents for various people aren't totally unrelated, but it's a relationship that's always been pretty fraught.
surgical_fire 1y ago
Based on the current administration, I can think of 14 words that I will refuse to repeat here.
- Y_Y 1y ago
  I assume your referring to this > We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words and further that you're intending to use it as a burn on Trump and his government? Regardless of what you think about them and Neo-Nazis/white supremacists, I think it's unfair because the policies of the current administration with regard to war, debt, environmentalism etc. evince a total disregard for the futures of children of any colour.
  - surgical_fire 1y ago
    > I think it's unfair because the policies of the current administration with regard to war, debt, environmentalism etc. evince a total disregard for the futures of children of any colour. That is due to incompetence, not desire.
ajuc 1y ago
At this point mostly hypocrisy.
snickerdoodle12 1y ago
Hunting down brown people and shipping them off to concentration camps, based on what's been happening the past few months.
LtWorf 1y ago
violence, oppression, and hypocrisy about it all

harry8 1y ago

> doubly so one where Vance shared a version of it himself No. Should have precisely zero baring on anything at all. Reminder: Support of free speech requires support of the right to say things that you loathe by people you hate or you don’t support free speech.

spiderice 1y ago
> Reminder: Support of free speech requires support of the right to say things that you loathe by people you hate or you don’t support free speech. No it doesn't. You're putting arbitrary limits to suit your views. You can support free speech for American citizens and also support using a foreigner's speech to determine whether or not we allow them into the country. That's just smart border policy. We should be vetting who we allow into our country, and using their speech is one way to vet them. Obviously not allowing someone in over a bald JD Vance meme is stupid. But the idea that we have to allow all foreigners the same level of free speech without it affecting their chances of getting into the country is also stupid.
- titzer 1y ago
  > We should be vetting who we allow into our country, and using their speech is one way to vet them. Who is this "we" and what rules govern these "we"? What are the consequences for this "we" just up and violating the rules or throwing those rules out altogether to grift, stay in power and persecute those they hate?
  - macinjosh 1y ago
    The we is the people elected through democratic means to execute the law and the people they appoint. Maybe someday the civilized world will realize democracy often ends in the case of two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner.
    - platevoltage 1y ago
      Oh come on. The very reason this is even happening is because the person with less votes was installed as president in 2016.

glenstein 1y ago

I know that the likes of fact checking and checking for hypocrisy draws eye rolls in the present environment (which in and of itself I find disappointing), but I do think an interesting variation on it would be to track what underlining principle is associated with any particular argument and to track adherence to principles over time. Of limited utility in an information ecosystem that's deeply indifferent to litigating disagreements on the basis of factual accuracy, but I feel like bsing your way out of inconsistent principles is at least harder.

slg 1y ago

>individual border agents should absolutely not be doing this One of the underdiscussed aspects of an authoritarian regime is that it creates countless little tyrants that all feel empowered to exert whatever power they have in any way they see fit.

markx2 1y ago
2006. O'Hare. I'm close to the front when exiting a UK > US plane. The 'agent' sees an implant (self-done years prior) in the back of my right hand. Calls it 'brutal'. I was directed to sit in a chair until way after the whole flight had disembarked. I was then questioned about my luggage, reasons for visiting. Some years later "Pull the guy with tattoos". Full search. Year or two after that, New York, pulled from the queue, directed to stand in a clear box. "Do not move your feet from those markings". My young daughter had to stand and watch. Another trip. My passport photo did not fit their criteria. "Why did you shave your head?" .. "Because it was hot" .. repeat that whole interaction several times. I am so so happy that I never have to visit the USA again and it's solely because of the 'people' assigned as 'guards'.
- switchbak 1y ago
  I had automatic weapons pointed at me and yelled at AFTER being waved through the crossing at the Ambassador bridge. 2010 era. I guess they wanted a second look. Most border agents are brutal, regardless of the current administration. But things do seem to get worse when the Republicans/MAGA are in. I wouldn't even want to think about how they'll act if a big terrorist attack comes.
- slg 1y ago
  Frankly, I think this type of comment minimizes what is happening here. These anecdotes are nothing close to what is detailed in the story and they don't sound particularly tyrannical or even necessarily out of line. As an American, I have experienced similar things when traveling abroad in other western countries. What this article describes is much worse.
- DudeOpotomus 1y ago

skywhopper 1y ago

Unfortunately, it’s pretty clear that there are strict quotas in place and border agents are expected to refuse entry to a certain number of people every day. The quotas are set by delusional xenophobes and thus aren’t remotely realistic, but border agents must find someone to kick out, so they latch onto any excuse. It’s truly sad and pathetic and evil.