7 ms·

Airbnb and Vrbo are going downhill like a hippo on a water slide

43 points by diogenes_atx 1y ago

techpineapple 1y ago
> Now? I can’t remember when we were actually in somebody’s home. It’s always somebody’s side hustle. They own 10 of them and live six hours away and they don’t give a dead rodent about you. The decor is always Early Target. You got a complaint? Send an email and we’ll get back to you. Maybe by Thanksgiving. > And while they’re penny-pinching on what you get, they’re dollar-grubbing on what you have to pay. You need a second job to pay for the maid service alone. Lately, they’ve stopped leaving soap. We’re paying for WiFi right now (20 euros a day). We stayed in a place in Rome once that gave us two towels for two weeks. No hand towels, no face towels, no bath towels. Just two in-between towels that looked like they’d been washed in the first aqueduct. Why is the market failing here? Why is it that people with spare bedrooms or in-law suites aren’t beating the prices of professional - essentially mini-hotel owners? Or are they they just get booked to quickly.
- toomuchtodo 1y ago
  Because these platforms competed with hotels and other commercial lodging, not couch surfing. Cost of capital has gone up, short term renters don’t want to offer any amenities to renters (because lodging is both a real estate and services biz), and here we are. Another casualty of ZIRP ending, resulting in the stretch for returns through decline in quality provided. They see their customers as sponges to squeeze, because what are you going to do? Complain to AirBnB? Just like Spirit Airlines, a lot of folks will still use it and grumble.
  - garciasn 1y ago
    No; because it's late-stage capitalism. People are looking to make a buck and you can't maximize your return unless you nickle and dime everyone, especially when you need to take on the risk of renting your place out to random assholes. I do Rover on the side; largely because I went through a divorce and I can't really afford a dog of my own--I might as well get paid to watch someone else's, right? The good thing about Rover is that I do a 'meet and greet' before I agree to host the animal and I know that the owner has to pay in advance, even with the platform taking a massive cut. This gives me great peace of mind that I will get along w/the dog; they will get along with me; and I will get paid at the end of it. In the case of Airbnb, you don't have that luxury. You are handing over your, likely, biggest financial asset, to a stranger. While you know you're going to get paid, you're likely going to be missing things, have things broken/destroyed, and/or have to deal with nitpicky assholes about every little thing (on both sides). I have never had a ENTIRELY poor experience with Airbnb (or Vrbo for that matter) but I have been disappointed a bit at times. Take, for example, the off-the-grid cabin I rented over the winter w/my gf. We knew there was going to be an outhouse; what we didn't expect was that it was going to be VERY full, to the point that I chose not to use it for anything but to take a piss, as I was worried I'd touch the pile w/my ass. When I told the owner that, they didn't even reply--as if my expectations were too high that I didn't want to have my ass or junk touch a pile of someone else's shit. My poor gf didn't have the same luxury I did; however, at least she didn't have something hanging down into the very full tank. I go out of my way when I watch dogs on Rover to be kind, empathetic, thoughtful, and to care for the dogs like I would care for my own. I'm certain there are Airbnb owners that are like me on Rover, but you get lost in the mix with those who do it and are late, incommunicado, and return your dog with bite and other red marks--as I've been told by owners who thought I was going above and beyond while I thought I was just following the golden rule. YMMV.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
- mohsen1 1y ago
  To be a genuinely good Airbnb host and offer your home at a fair price, two things are usually required: 1. A well-furnished, comfortable home — which often comes with a higher income bracket. 2. The time, energy, and motivation to handle hosting duties — managing logistics, cleaning, communication, etc. The problem is, those two qualities rarely overlap. People with high-quality homes often have demanding careers or other priorities and don’t want the uncertainty or effort of renting to strangers — especially when guest quality can vary a lot. That’s partly why platforms like Kindred are interesting. They focus on home exchanges, not rentals, so everyone involved is both a guest and a host. That creates better alignment in expectations and care. There’s no pricing involved, no taxes, and a built-in sense of trust — since it’s a mutual exchange. It’s not a perfect solution, but it shifts the dynamic in a way that feels more human and less transactional. If you’re curious, here’s a referral link with 5 free credits: https://livekindred.com?invite_code=MOH.AZI https://livekindred.com?invite_code=MOH.AZI
- busterarm 1y ago
  This is why I have always just gotten a hotel. Everyone I know who AirBNBs has horror stories. I've never had a hotel horror story. I've had minor disappointments but always the hotel went out of their accommodate me or my credit card company would have if they failed to meet their obligations. Even for the niche reasons some people AirBNB for (large groups, extended stays), I've always found niche hotels offering the same. Even before AirBNB existed I could do things like book out an apartment-style hotel in Reykjavik to house 40 people for a week. That place is still operating now even.
  - attendant3446 1y ago
    I mostly agree. But I have a couple of horror stories about staying in hotels too. The main thing about hotels is that you rarely book them for a week or a month. So if it's bad, it's usually easy to leave. Also, it's a business, so sometimes they care about their reputation. Airbnb used to be good, but it's been awful for a while now. I'm not saying it's all bad, but it's mostly bad. If property rating is plummeting, they can simply reset and relist the property - Airbnb doesn't punish such behaviour. Unfortunately, if you need to stay somewhere long term, there are no global alternatives to Airbnb.
    - busterarm 1y ago
      I view a horror story as a situation where I have no recourse. Like a prepaid non-refundable booking. In most hotel booking situations the most that you can lose is a day. If it's truly the hotel's fault they will either comp this or you can easily claw it back via chargeback. I pretty commonly book week stays in hotels and the only real friction I've found there is that I can't book some places online and have to call to make the reservation. I know how difficult that is for recent generations. The thing about the long-term bookings that people don't understand is that there's risk on the property side. No-shows for bookings are unfortunately more common than you think and having a room locked out and not making money for multiple days is a major problem. Calling helps and sometimes I do it anyway because they'll give me a better rate than online...
  - homefree 1y ago
- bawolff 1y ago
  > Why is the market failing here? Why is it that people with spare bedrooms or in-law suites aren’t beating the prices of professional - essentially mini-hotel owners? Or are they they just get booked to quickly. Because most consumers of these services want a mini hotel. People don't want to stay in someone's spare bedroom. And on the other side, hell of a lot more risk to put up a random stranger in your spare bedroom in the property you actually live in, than having some second property.
mohsen1 1y ago
Archive article
- tromp 1y ago
  Correct article: https://archive.is/ByOCT https://archive.is/ByOCT
  - ProllyInfamous 1y ago
    Thank you both. Unrelated note to publishing platforms: Instead of using Archive to read your stuff, I'd rather pay for your content; but until a mechanism to send microtransactions to one-off view individual articles, I'm not going to ever sign up monthly (e.g. send 0.0001 XMR to address 1MADEup5649879846513216547, which then creates a machine-local cookie to allow viewing of content indefinitely/timed). Perhaps a GUI similar to the old .RSS feeds, with a central CC/crypto processor which pays per article?
    - nottorp 1y ago
      No one's interested in getting our 0.0001 whatever coin sadly. They're chasing the whales who are willing to commit to a 10 year subscription.
      - ProllyInfamous 1y ago
        This could be a neat addition to substack's platform/design/profits. ---- My local newspaper (the father of NYT) expects its largely-aged population to shell out $35/month for daily prints. Some bozo thought offering a free iPad would really jive with this population ( ̄_(ツ)_/ ̄)
        nottorp 1y ago
        I'm in a gloomy mood. Suppose someone comes up with a platform that allows us to pay 0.05$ for one article. They count articles we've selected and charge us when it makes sense due to credit card fees, probably at $10 worth of views. How long will it take till they start pushing ... a subscription? Pay us $10/month for $12 worth of article views! 20% savings! * * Terms and condisions apply. Your $10/month subscription is only good for the 3rd tier content, but there are $29 and $99/month subscriptions that allow access to 2nd tier and first tier. Price valid for a 3 year commitment.
krunck 1y ago
The problem is owners rent out their space and try to do all the work from afar. Cleaners are rented and just do what their told. No one really inspects the place between guests. No one maintains anything. It's just maximal profit extraction which turns everything into crap. I would never rent out my home or extra dwelling without greeting the guests in person, being available for assistance, and maybe even showing up at checkout time.
- stronglikedan 1y ago
  You say that now, but if you put yourself in the shoes of someone who had been doing that for a while, and likely has multiple properties, then you would very likely be singing a different tune.
- ergonaught 1y ago
  A huge advantage for these services is that I don’t ever have to meet you in person. Availability for assistance is great, but otherwise I have zero desire to encounter you, as a “consumer”.
  - socalgal2 1y ago
    which is why your investment is not going to pay out. Or at least that's what the article is suggesting. You (and the rest) offered a crap experience. Customers wised up. They're no longer renting.
    - tough 1y ago
      the main reason of etre of airbnb is to let him and others skip the law and not get a proper license to run a faux-hotel at their second homes. then people can't afford nor rent nor buying homes in their homeplaces, due to these twats buying it all up to -profit-
      - socalgal2 1y ago
        this is one of those urban legends that seem to make sense but doesn't add up when you check the actual numbers.
v5v3 1y ago
A lot are no longer private owners renting out, it's professional management companies managing a large number of properties. So now there are middle men salaries to be paid and so they need to find ways to maximise profits. Good for startups and software Devs as there is a resulting demand for tech platforms and integrations An example of one of their conferences https://barcelona.scalerentals.show/ https://barcelona.scalerentals.show/
deadbabe 1y ago
In an Airbnb can just say “we don’t really want to do chores, but here’s a tip to cover the time it would take :)” and leave $20.
- tough 1y ago
  In an hotel you can just not do chores!
jt2190 1y ago
From the opinion piece: > I can’t remember when we were actually in somebody’s home. It’s always somebody’s side hustle. They own 10 of them and live six hours away and they don’t give a dead rodent about you. The decor is always Early Target. You got a complaint? Send an email and we’ll get back to you. Maybe by Thanksgiving. Perhaps “staying in someone’s home” doesn’t scale? For example, there’s a point at which buying extra insurance feels necessary, maybe not for an occasional visit from a family friend, or even a friend of a friend, but there is a point.
- voisin 1y ago
  Maybe it doesn’t scale but for those of us that tried AirBnB “back in the day” it was a brief and wonderful experience. We can’t have nice things.
darth_avocado 1y ago
Where Airbnb and Vrbo still works: 1. Large groups and families 2. Places where having a kitchen would be a great thing (either due to cost or because there’s not as many restaurants around) 3. If you wanted to stay in a specific location Why they don’t work for all other cases: 1. They are more expensive than hotels, but without the conveniences of a hotel 2. Cleaning fee scam 3. Enshitification of offerings by larger landlords. Cheap interiors and missing conveniences. If I rent an Airbnb and they do not have plates and cutlery, I’d rather stay in a hotel.
- secabeen 1y ago
  > 1. Large groups and families 2. Places where having a kitchen would be a great thing (either due to cost or because there’s not as many restaurants around) 3. If you wanted to stay in a specific location Yes, this. I strongly value all of the above items, and I greatly dislike the corporate, samey-feel of hotels. However, I recognize that I am a small part of the market; business travel is over 50% of hotel revenue pre-COVID, and business-people do not value the above features much at all. VCs love when a new product offering emerges into a market that wasn't satisfying a market segment well. For a few years, it looks like the new market entrant can disrupt the entire industry, and if they time it right, the VCs can exit via an IPO or sale near the peak of the froth and reap ludicrous profits. AirBNB was this, there was a period where the market view was that AirBNB would destroy the hotel industry. Of course, it didn't happen, and the stock purchasers were the ones holding the bag.
- politelemon 1y ago
  Hotels are often cramped places with minimal to no amenities or appliances. Airbnb often gets you a bit of space, couch, kitchen area and a bedroom. I'm not sure what conveniences hotels offer over apartments that are worth it.
  - apple4ever 1y ago
    Staff are always there to help and its always clean is a big one for me.
hkchad 1y ago
Rarely is it worth it for me to deal w/ AirBnb type places anymore. After all the fees and extra work trying to understand each of their 'rules' I find getting a hotel is just easier. Unless I'm trying to stay at a particular destination for several days in a row and need a 'home base' hotels are just more convenient as long as all I need is a place to crash at night. They make the beds and cook me breakfast and I don't even have to start the washing machine when I leave...
cs702 1y ago
Judging by my own experience, this is spot-on: > When [home rental marketplaces] started, it was kind of wonderful to be able to book somebody’s house or apartment. They cared about it. They left you gifts and flowers and long notes about the best little restaurants in the neighborhood. > Now? I can’t remember when we were actually in somebody’s home. It’s always somebody’s side hustle. They own 10 of them and live six hours away and they don’t give a dead rodent about you. The decor is always Early Target. You got a complaint? Send an email and we’ll get back to you. Maybe by Thanksgiving. The median room in these marketplaces is converging to the equivalent of a motel room, but without any services or amenities. You're unlikely to get scammed, but if you want something nice, you must pay up... or stay in a hotel.
lifestyleguru 1y ago
Somehow the self regulating free market every time strives to cost extraction and scorched earth.
anshubansal2000 1y ago
Its horrible to stay in AirBnB. They had the edge when it used to be cheaper but now its more expensive and so much hassle of getting key, leaving on time, wont let you enter even before 10 mins of checkin time. Its very convenient to stay in hotel at same price or even little bit extra price.
vincefutr23 1y ago
In the beginning the main advantage of Airbnb was 1) much cheaper due to none of the tax and fee apparatus local govts attach to hotel stays 2) the ability to “stay like a local” in neighborhoods where residents live instead of hotel neighborhoods like Times Square , fisherman’s wharf, soma etc 1 is completely gone and has maybe gotten worse than hotels. 2 still holds to an extent but you mostly find professional spaces
acrooks 1y ago
I used to be a devout Airbnb user. I never had a horror story on Airbnb, and I certainly had a lot of very unique and interesting experiences that I've never been able to replicate in a hotel environment. But ultimately I gave up on it because there was too much friction. Strict check-in hours, strict check-out hours, a list of chores to complete before you leave, not possible to check in at odd hours, nowhere to store your luggage, spotty wifi, the list goes on. Previously I defended this friction with the economic argument - hey, at least it's a lot cheaper than a hotel - but Airbnb no longer wins on cost. That being said, I still use Airbnb but now only for very specific cases - e.g., some friends and I rented a large lakefront cabin earlier this year. Previously it was my first choice and now it is my last. (I admit as well that I travel very regularly - around 100 nights so far in 2025 - and that a casual traveller may, understandably, have a different perspective)
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
WinstonSmith84 1y ago
So many bad takes, I'll put that on ignorance: > I’m writing to you from a home rental in France where we had to rent our sheets and towels. Yes, that's a French thing, always has been - sorry if that's the first time the author went to France and rented a private flat there ... > It was on the fifth floor of an apartment building and promised 180-degree views of the city below Well, did that apartment had any reviews? Probably not. Did the owner had any other listings? Probably not either. But certainly, the apartment was cheaper than alternatives ... > We just left a rental in Florence. There was a washer, but no dryer Was that not clearly written on the airbnb listing? Plus, why would you even need a drier mid-June in Florence (when the temperature hovers between 30C and 40C during day time...) - must be an American thing somehow. Well, I'm a full time nomad traveling 365 days a year. I don't always use Airbnb, sometimes I use booking.com for some week-ends. And sometimes I try to hit local platforms for much cheaper deals. The truth is that I either get gems or get partially scammed with offers better than they are (yes because on local platforms, there is no review of anything, just the promise of an agency at best or of a random local otherwise). I've more than 100 completed trip on Airbnb and never got scammed once - because well, I read the reviews, right, and use some common sense. I'd love to see alternatives to Airbnb, but unfortunately there is nothing which comes even close.
- moralestapia 1y ago
  >Yes, that's a French thing, [...] Is this a common occurrence in French hotels?
  - politelemon 1y ago
    And are you supposed to carry your own sheets in the luggage?
    - moralestapia 1y ago
      Yes, that's a French thing.
      - 1y ago
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
ilamont 1y ago
Almost every year we make a trip to a foreign country to visit the spouse's family. Last year was the last time we used Airbnb. 2023 was already sketchy (building address and contact person didn't match the confirmation listing) but 2024 took things to a new low, with not only the address and contact person not matching, but access to the unit was through a crowded 1st floor curry restaurant and the curry restaurant's kitchen. One of the harried cooks was assigned to let us into the room. The listing photos of course looked great in an anonymous IKEA kind of way, but in reality the unit was older and the flaws were not apparent when we made the reservation. No one in the dozens of listing comments mentioned the unusual mode of entry. Is that because of the address mismatch (indicating listings are being reused) or the way Airbnb solicits feedback to keep negativity out of the public comments? Years ago I complained in the Airbnb public comments below another listing after the host lied about the location and left out the fact the door frames were 15 cm too low; the host blamed and disparaged me in the response with no positive outcome. Yes, we have had some good Airbnb experiences. But over time the good places have been come rare jewels as investors and hustlers take over the platform. We are tired of dealing with host shenanigans and Airbnb's tricks ("superhost!") for prices that honestly aren't that great when compared with midranged hotels. We used a hotel on our return trip to my spouse's country earlier this year and will be doing it this way going forward.
flustercan 1y ago
If a hotel could offer me a house like experience I would definitely be interested. I agree with the sentiment that Airbnbs are weird with the checkout chores and lack of regulation, but when traveling with friends I find it so much more enjoyable to be able to hang out and cook dinner and watch TV together rather than all being cramped in one couple's studio sitting on the beds and eating out every meal.
Workaccount2 1y ago
Airbnb needs to have a demarcation for whether or not the owners are on premises (or within 10 minutes or something). Every abnb I have stayed at where it was the owners property has been great. Cheaper, instant responses, no chores, flexible everything. The ones I have stayed at there were remote operations with a contract service doing the owners work are the ones that have given bad experiences. I wish there was a way to filter these ones out.
danielodievich 1y ago
My family used VRBO to get houses for winter vacations where we can bring other families and go skiing. With careful research and judicious planning it has turned out okay for last decade of winters. Because it is skiing and usually remote, and we like to cook, we always bring food. To support this, we pack staples necessary for cooking (oil, vinegar, spices) and bring our tools (knives, snack bags, containers for leftovers) because you can't predict if the places will have those. We've been lucky in our experiences that about 60% had those, but not always, so being prepared is great. Planning and setting low but steady expectations is always important.
angarg12 1y ago
I live in the pacific northwest and have 1 week of PTO coming up. I wanted to maybe rent a cabin and chill with my family for a few days. Browsing Airbnb the cheapest options available in my area are tents and RVs for 200-300 USD a night, and prices go up for there. Think about that for a moment, spending 250 USD a night to rent a tent, probably in someone's backyard. Beyond ridiculous prices, Airbnbs have just become a pain. They often come with long lists of rules. Here are some of the most ridiculous that I've seen: clean everything before you go (what is my cleaning fee for?), put on the laundry (very common lately), or bag up the trash and take it out to the nearest t
zemvpferreira 1y ago
I'm an airbnb host with 5 apartments as a hobby business. As a traveller, I've stayed in hundreds since they started. There were no good old days and it's not horrible now. Like neighbourhood restaurants, there's massive variance in quality and it will be up to you to differentiate between the folks who care about their guests and those that rent apartments without windows. I had a host in 2012 in SF -a sweet alcoholic of an old man- who flashed me full frontal nudity before check-out. I had an apartment in Shenzhen in 2014 literally covered in roaches. I lasted one night. This year I stayed in an apartment in Andermatt with beautiful cherry wood floors, a phenomenal kitchen, sauna, a huge outdoor space and full view of the mountains for half the price of the nearest hotel room. Worse now than before? Bullshit. None of my guests have ever paid for a sheet. I comp extra nights if they're unbooked. I offer every towel under the sun, a warm body to check you in at any time and some wine and snacks if you arrive very late free of charge. I'm still nowhere close to being the most welcoming host in the city. There are great experiences to be had out there. If you want personality, to relate with the owners and get a good deal at the expense of total predictability, airbnb is for you. Ignore any listing that doesn't match the vibe. If you're looking for the travel equivalent of eating at Subway, a chain hotel will be a better option.
pembrook 1y ago
This is just simple economics. Now that the whole “serendipity and living in domestic spaces like a local” thing is dead and most Airbnb providers have professionalized —- it’s now just about value. Logically, who is going to provide the best value: - A massive hotel chain with economies of scale, purpose built properties, decades proven systems and hospitality processes - Individual startup hoteliers renting out non-purpose built spaces with ikea furniture, no economies of scale, no systems, ad hoc processes and expensive platform fees as overhead The highest end Airbnbs still offer what used to be available in the early days, but it just doesn’t make sense anymore for most people
rglover 1y ago
Airbnb lost me a few months back. My wife and I eloped and had a weekend getaway planned to celebrate. The place was out in the woods down back roads, had little to no lights (we got there at night), a narrow, unmaintained gravel driveway with literal boulders in it, and the cherry on top: none of the windows had curtains or blinds (you could just roll up the driveway and look right into the house). We left 20 minutes after getting there. Resolving this required three days of back-and-forth with Airbnb "support," being repeatedly gaslit that this was somehow my fault (I sent in multiple videos with the support rep lying and telling me I didn't upload anything), and told that they could do a partial refund. I had to threaten the employment of the support rep before they'd escalate and finally admit this was sketchy and issue a full refund. I knew things were unravelling when one stay at a different Airbnb about two years back left instructions that I had to place sheets and towels in the dryer before leaving (mandatory—with assumed threat of a negative guest review—despite having a separate cleaning fee). On top of this, I've noticed a decent chunk of the new construction homes in my area are/were just being bought for the express purpose of being an Airbnb. So, instead of families having access to affordable housing, a town house with no yard, built with Alibaba-grade materials in Middle Tennessee (in a town most people haven't heard of) starts at ~$300-400K [1]. Airbnb was a great idea in the past, but now it's just not worth it. Much better to spend roughly the same on a nice hotel where you're staying. [1] https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1561-Ansley-Park-Dr-Cookeville-TN-38501/442981735_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1561-Ansley-Park-Dr-Cooke...
TYPE_FASTER 1y ago
AirBnB reviews are not reliable. I made the mistake of booking an AirBnB without checking the TripAdvisor reviews first. We bailed after one night. The TripAdvisor reviews were honest, the AirBnB reviews were not.
- kyleee 1y ago
  Yes the reviews are basically fraudulent; to be discarded almost entirely
snackernews 1y ago
Americans and their driers.
iJohnDoe 1y ago
Never stayed in an Airbnb. The hidden cameras and the fees. Simply not worth it. It took 17 years for Airbnb to address the hidden cameras. Obviously doesn’t fix the problem, but still crazy it took them that long to even make a policy about it.
neonate 1y ago
https://archive.is/ByOCT https://archive.is/ByOCT

43 points by diogenes_atx 1y ago

> Now? I can’t remember when we were actually in somebody’s home. It’s always somebody’s side hustle. They own 10 of them and live six hours away and they don’t give a dead rodent about you. The decor is always Early Target. You got a complaint? Send an email and we’ll get back to you. Maybe by Thanksgiving. > And while they’re penny-pinching on what you get, they’re dollar-grubbing on what you have to pay. You need a second job to pay for the maid service alone. Lately, they’ve stopped leaving soap. We’re paying for WiFi right now (20 euros a day). We stayed in a place in Rome once that gave us two towels for two weeks. No hand towels, no face towels, no bath towels. Just two in-between towels that looked like they’d been washed in the first aqueduct. Why is the market failing here? Why is it that people with spare bedrooms or in-law suites aren’t beating the prices of professional - essentially mini-hotel owners? Or are they they just get booked to quickly.

toomuchtodo 1y ago
Because these platforms competed with hotels and other commercial lodging, not couch surfing. Cost of capital has gone up, short term renters don’t want to offer any amenities to renters (because lodging is both a real estate and services biz), and here we are. Another casualty of ZIRP ending, resulting in the stretch for returns through decline in quality provided. They see their customers as sponges to squeeze, because what are you going to do? Complain to AirBnB? Just like Spirit Airlines, a lot of folks will still use it and grumble.
- garciasn 1y ago
  No; because it's late-stage capitalism. People are looking to make a buck and you can't maximize your return unless you nickle and dime everyone, especially when you need to take on the risk of renting your place out to random assholes. I do Rover on the side; largely because I went through a divorce and I can't really afford a dog of my own--I might as well get paid to watch someone else's, right? The good thing about Rover is that I do a 'meet and greet' before I agree to host the animal and I know that the owner has to pay in advance, even with the platform taking a massive cut. This gives me great peace of mind that I will get along w/the dog; they will get along with me; and I will get paid at the end of it. In the case of Airbnb, you don't have that luxury. You are handing over your, likely, biggest financial asset, to a stranger. While you know you're going to get paid, you're likely going to be missing things, have things broken/destroyed, and/or have to deal with nitpicky assholes about every little thing (on both sides). I have never had a ENTIRELY poor experience with Airbnb (or Vrbo for that matter) but I have been disappointed a bit at times. Take, for example, the off-the-grid cabin I rented over the winter w/my gf. We knew there was going to be an outhouse; what we didn't expect was that it was going to be VERY full, to the point that I chose not to use it for anything but to take a piss, as I was worried I'd touch the pile w/my ass. When I told the owner that, they didn't even reply--as if my expectations were too high that I didn't want to have my ass or junk touch a pile of someone else's shit. My poor gf didn't have the same luxury I did; however, at least she didn't have something hanging down into the very full tank. I go out of my way when I watch dogs on Rover to be kind, empathetic, thoughtful, and to care for the dogs like I would care for my own. I'm certain there are Airbnb owners that are like me on Rover, but you get lost in the mix with those who do it and are late, incommunicado, and return your dog with bite and other red marks--as I've been told by owners who thought I was going above and beyond while I thought I was just following the golden rule. YMMV.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
mohsen1 1y ago
To be a genuinely good Airbnb host and offer your home at a fair price, two things are usually required: 1. A well-furnished, comfortable home — which often comes with a higher income bracket. 2. The time, energy, and motivation to handle hosting duties — managing logistics, cleaning, communication, etc. The problem is, those two qualities rarely overlap. People with high-quality homes often have demanding careers or other priorities and don’t want the uncertainty or effort of renting to strangers — especially when guest quality can vary a lot. That’s partly why platforms like Kindred are interesting. They focus on home exchanges, not rentals, so everyone involved is both a guest and a host. That creates better alignment in expectations and care. There’s no pricing involved, no taxes, and a built-in sense of trust — since it’s a mutual exchange. It’s not a perfect solution, but it shifts the dynamic in a way that feels more human and less transactional. If you’re curious, here’s a referral link with 5 free credits: https://livekindred.com?invite_code=MOH.AZI https://livekindred.com?invite_code=MOH.AZI
busterarm 1y ago
This is why I have always just gotten a hotel. Everyone I know who AirBNBs has horror stories. I've never had a hotel horror story. I've had minor disappointments but always the hotel went out of their accommodate me or my credit card company would have if they failed to meet their obligations. Even for the niche reasons some people AirBNB for (large groups, extended stays), I've always found niche hotels offering the same. Even before AirBNB existed I could do things like book out an apartment-style hotel in Reykjavik to house 40 people for a week. That place is still operating now even.
- attendant3446 1y ago
  I mostly agree. But I have a couple of horror stories about staying in hotels too. The main thing about hotels is that you rarely book them for a week or a month. So if it's bad, it's usually easy to leave. Also, it's a business, so sometimes they care about their reputation. Airbnb used to be good, but it's been awful for a while now. I'm not saying it's all bad, but it's mostly bad. If property rating is plummeting, they can simply reset and relist the property - Airbnb doesn't punish such behaviour. Unfortunately, if you need to stay somewhere long term, there are no global alternatives to Airbnb.
  - busterarm 1y ago
    I view a horror story as a situation where I have no recourse. Like a prepaid non-refundable booking. In most hotel booking situations the most that you can lose is a day. If it's truly the hotel's fault they will either comp this or you can easily claw it back via chargeback. I pretty commonly book week stays in hotels and the only real friction I've found there is that I can't book some places online and have to call to make the reservation. I know how difficult that is for recent generations. The thing about the long-term bookings that people don't understand is that there's risk on the property side. No-shows for bookings are unfortunately more common than you think and having a room locked out and not making money for multiple days is a major problem. Calling helps and sometimes I do it anyway because they'll give me a better rate than online...
- homefree 1y ago
bawolff 1y ago
> Why is the market failing here? Why is it that people with spare bedrooms or in-law suites aren’t beating the prices of professional - essentially mini-hotel owners? Or are they they just get booked to quickly. Because most consumers of these services want a mini hotel. People don't want to stay in someone's spare bedroom. And on the other side, hell of a lot more risk to put up a random stranger in your spare bedroom in the property you actually live in, than having some second property.

mohsen1 1y ago

Archive article

tromp 1y ago
Correct article: https://archive.is/ByOCT https://archive.is/ByOCT
- ProllyInfamous 1y ago
  Thank you both. Unrelated note to publishing platforms: Instead of using Archive to read your stuff, I'd rather pay for your content; but until a mechanism to send microtransactions to one-off view individual articles, I'm not going to ever sign up monthly (e.g. send 0.0001 XMR to address 1MADEup5649879846513216547, which then creates a machine-local cookie to allow viewing of content indefinitely/timed). Perhaps a GUI similar to the old .RSS feeds, with a central CC/crypto processor which pays per article?
  - nottorp 1y ago
    No one's interested in getting our 0.0001 whatever coin sadly. They're chasing the whales who are willing to commit to a 10 year subscription.
    - ProllyInfamous 1y ago
      This could be a neat addition to substack's platform/design/profits. ---- My local newspaper (the father of NYT) expects its largely-aged population to shell out $35/month for daily prints. Some bozo thought offering a free iPad would really jive with this population ( ̄_(ツ)_/ ̄)
      - nottorp 1y ago
        I'm in a gloomy mood. Suppose someone comes up with a platform that allows us to pay 0.05$ for one article. They count articles we've selected and charge us when it makes sense due to credit card fees, probably at $10 worth of views. How long will it take till they start pushing ... a subscription? Pay us $10/month for $12 worth of article views! 20% savings! * * Terms and condisions apply. Your $10/month subscription is only good for the 3rd tier content, but there are $29 and $99/month subscriptions that allow access to 2nd tier and first tier. Price valid for a 3 year commitment.

krunck 1y ago

The problem is owners rent out their space and try to do all the work from afar. Cleaners are rented and just do what their told. No one really inspects the place between guests. No one maintains anything. It's just maximal profit extraction which turns everything into crap. I would never rent out my home or extra dwelling without greeting the guests in person, being available for assistance, and maybe even showing up at checkout time.

stronglikedan 1y ago
You say that now, but if you put yourself in the shoes of someone who had been doing that for a while, and likely has multiple properties, then you would very likely be singing a different tune.
ergonaught 1y ago
A huge advantage for these services is that I don’t ever have to meet you in person. Availability for assistance is great, but otherwise I have zero desire to encounter you, as a “consumer”.
- socalgal2 1y ago
  which is why your investment is not going to pay out. Or at least that's what the article is suggesting. You (and the rest) offered a crap experience. Customers wised up. They're no longer renting.
  - tough 1y ago
    the main reason of etre of airbnb is to let him and others skip the law and not get a proper license to run a faux-hotel at their second homes. then people can't afford nor rent nor buying homes in their homeplaces, due to these twats buying it all up to -profit-
    - socalgal2 1y ago
      this is one of those urban legends that seem to make sense but doesn't add up when you check the actual numbers.

v5v3 1y ago

A lot are no longer private owners renting out, it's professional management companies managing a large number of properties. So now there are middle men salaries to be paid and so they need to find ways to maximise profits. Good for startups and software Devs as there is a resulting demand for tech platforms and integrations An example of one of their conferences https://barcelona.scalerentals.show/ https://barcelona.scalerentals.show/

deadbabe 1y ago

In an Airbnb can just say “we don’t really want to do chores, but here’s a tip to cover the time it would take :)” and leave $20.

tough 1y ago
In an hotel you can just not do chores!

jt2190 1y ago

From the opinion piece: > I can’t remember when we were actually in somebody’s home. It’s always somebody’s side hustle. They own 10 of them and live six hours away and they don’t give a dead rodent about you. The decor is always Early Target. You got a complaint? Send an email and we’ll get back to you. Maybe by Thanksgiving. Perhaps “staying in someone’s home” doesn’t scale? For example, there’s a point at which buying extra insurance feels necessary, maybe not for an occasional visit from a family friend, or even a friend of a friend, but there is a point.

voisin 1y ago
Maybe it doesn’t scale but for those of us that tried AirBnB “back in the day” it was a brief and wonderful experience. We can’t have nice things.

darth_avocado 1y ago

Where Airbnb and Vrbo still works: 1. Large groups and families 2. Places where having a kitchen would be a great thing (either due to cost or because there’s not as many restaurants around) 3. If you wanted to stay in a specific location Why they don’t work for all other cases: 1. They are more expensive than hotels, but without the conveniences of a hotel 2. Cleaning fee scam 3. Enshitification of offerings by larger landlords. Cheap interiors and missing conveniences. If I rent an Airbnb and they do not have plates and cutlery, I’d rather stay in a hotel.

secabeen 1y ago
> 1. Large groups and families 2. Places where having a kitchen would be a great thing (either due to cost or because there’s not as many restaurants around) 3. If you wanted to stay in a specific location Yes, this. I strongly value all of the above items, and I greatly dislike the corporate, samey-feel of hotels. However, I recognize that I am a small part of the market; business travel is over 50% of hotel revenue pre-COVID, and business-people do not value the above features much at all. VCs love when a new product offering emerges into a market that wasn't satisfying a market segment well. For a few years, it looks like the new market entrant can disrupt the entire industry, and if they time it right, the VCs can exit via an IPO or sale near the peak of the froth and reap ludicrous profits. AirBNB was this, there was a period where the market view was that AirBNB would destroy the hotel industry. Of course, it didn't happen, and the stock purchasers were the ones holding the bag.
politelemon 1y ago
Hotels are often cramped places with minimal to no amenities or appliances. Airbnb often gets you a bit of space, couch, kitchen area and a bedroom. I'm not sure what conveniences hotels offer over apartments that are worth it.
- apple4ever 1y ago
  Staff are always there to help and its always clean is a big one for me.

hkchad 1y ago

Rarely is it worth it for me to deal w/ AirBnb type places anymore. After all the fees and extra work trying to understand each of their 'rules' I find getting a hotel is just easier. Unless I'm trying to stay at a particular destination for several days in a row and need a 'home base' hotels are just more convenient as long as all I need is a place to crash at night. They make the beds and cook me breakfast and I don't even have to start the washing machine when I leave...

cs702 1y ago

Judging by my own experience, this is spot-on: > When [home rental marketplaces] started, it was kind of wonderful to be able to book somebody’s house or apartment. They cared about it. They left you gifts and flowers and long notes about the best little restaurants in the neighborhood. > Now? I can’t remember when we were actually in somebody’s home. It’s always somebody’s side hustle. They own 10 of them and live six hours away and they don’t give a dead rodent about you. The decor is always Early Target. You got a complaint? Send an email and we’ll get back to you. Maybe by Thanksgiving. The median room in these marketplaces is converging to the equivalent of a motel room, but without any services or amenities. You're unlikely to get scammed, but if you want something nice, you must pay up... or stay in a hotel.

lifestyleguru 1y ago

Somehow the self regulating free market every time strives to cost extraction and scorched earth.

anshubansal2000 1y ago

Its horrible to stay in AirBnB. They had the edge when it used to be cheaper but now its more expensive and so much hassle of getting key, leaving on time, wont let you enter even before 10 mins of checkin time. Its very convenient to stay in hotel at same price or even little bit extra price.

vincefutr23 1y ago

In the beginning the main advantage of Airbnb was 1) much cheaper due to none of the tax and fee apparatus local govts attach to hotel stays 2) the ability to “stay like a local” in neighborhoods where residents live instead of hotel neighborhoods like Times Square , fisherman’s wharf, soma etc 1 is completely gone and has maybe gotten worse than hotels. 2 still holds to an extent but you mostly find professional spaces

acrooks 1y ago

I used to be a devout Airbnb user. I never had a horror story on Airbnb, and I certainly had a lot of very unique and interesting experiences that I've never been able to replicate in a hotel environment. But ultimately I gave up on it because there was too much friction. Strict check-in hours, strict check-out hours, a list of chores to complete before you leave, not possible to check in at odd hours, nowhere to store your luggage, spotty wifi, the list goes on. Previously I defended this friction with the economic argument - hey, at least it's a lot cheaper than a hotel - but Airbnb no longer wins on cost. That being said, I still use Airbnb but now only for very specific cases - e.g., some friends and I rented a large lakefront cabin earlier this year. Previously it was my first choice and now it is my last. (I admit as well that I travel very regularly - around 100 nights so far in 2025 - and that a casual traveller may, understandably, have a different perspective)

deleted 1y ago
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WinstonSmith84 1y ago

So many bad takes, I'll put that on ignorance: > I’m writing to you from a home rental in France where we had to rent our sheets and towels. Yes, that's a French thing, always has been - sorry if that's the first time the author went to France and rented a private flat there ... > It was on the fifth floor of an apartment building and promised 180-degree views of the city below Well, did that apartment had any reviews? Probably not. Did the owner had any other listings? Probably not either. But certainly, the apartment was cheaper than alternatives ... > We just left a rental in Florence. There was a washer, but no dryer Was that not clearly written on the airbnb listing? Plus, why would you even need a drier mid-June in Florence (when the temperature hovers between 30C and 40C during day time...) - must be an American thing somehow. Well, I'm a full time nomad traveling 365 days a year. I don't always use Airbnb, sometimes I use booking.com for some week-ends. And sometimes I try to hit local platforms for much cheaper deals. The truth is that I either get gems or get partially scammed with offers better than they are (yes because on local platforms, there is no review of anything, just the promise of an agency at best or of a random local otherwise). I've more than 100 completed trip on Airbnb and never got scammed once - because well, I read the reviews, right, and use some common sense. I'd love to see alternatives to Airbnb, but unfortunately there is nothing which comes even close.

moralestapia 1y ago
>Yes, that's a French thing, [...] Is this a common occurrence in French hotels?
- politelemon 1y ago
  And are you supposed to carry your own sheets in the luggage?
  - moralestapia 1y ago
    Yes, that's a French thing.
    - 1y ago

deleted 1y ago

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ilamont 1y ago

Almost every year we make a trip to a foreign country to visit the spouse's family. Last year was the last time we used Airbnb. 2023 was already sketchy (building address and contact person didn't match the confirmation listing) but 2024 took things to a new low, with not only the address and contact person not matching, but access to the unit was through a crowded 1st floor curry restaurant and the curry restaurant's kitchen. One of the harried cooks was assigned to let us into the room. The listing photos of course looked great in an anonymous IKEA kind of way, but in reality the unit was older and the flaws were not apparent when we made the reservation. No one in the dozens of listing comments mentioned the unusual mode of entry. Is that because of the address mismatch (indicating listings are being reused) or the way Airbnb solicits feedback to keep negativity out of the public comments? Years ago I complained in the Airbnb public comments below another listing after the host lied about the location and left out the fact the door frames were 15 cm too low; the host blamed and disparaged me in the response with no positive outcome. Yes, we have had some good Airbnb experiences. But over time the good places have been come rare jewels as investors and hustlers take over the platform. We are tired of dealing with host shenanigans and Airbnb's tricks ("superhost!") for prices that honestly aren't that great when compared with midranged hotels. We used a hotel on our return trip to my spouse's country earlier this year and will be doing it this way going forward.

flustercan 1y ago

If a hotel could offer me a house like experience I would definitely be interested. I agree with the sentiment that Airbnbs are weird with the checkout chores and lack of regulation, but when traveling with friends I find it so much more enjoyable to be able to hang out and cook dinner and watch TV together rather than all being cramped in one couple's studio sitting on the beds and eating out every meal.

Workaccount2 1y ago

Airbnb needs to have a demarcation for whether or not the owners are on premises (or within 10 minutes or something). Every abnb I have stayed at where it was the owners property has been great. Cheaper, instant responses, no chores, flexible everything. The ones I have stayed at there were remote operations with a contract service doing the owners work are the ones that have given bad experiences. I wish there was a way to filter these ones out.

danielodievich 1y ago

My family used VRBO to get houses for winter vacations where we can bring other families and go skiing. With careful research and judicious planning it has turned out okay for last decade of winters. Because it is skiing and usually remote, and we like to cook, we always bring food. To support this, we pack staples necessary for cooking (oil, vinegar, spices) and bring our tools (knives, snack bags, containers for leftovers) because you can't predict if the places will have those. We've been lucky in our experiences that about 60% had those, but not always, so being prepared is great. Planning and setting low but steady expectations is always important.

angarg12 1y ago

I live in the pacific northwest and have 1 week of PTO coming up. I wanted to maybe rent a cabin and chill with my family for a few days. Browsing Airbnb the cheapest options available in my area are tents and RVs for 200-300 USD a night, and prices go up for there. Think about that for a moment, spending 250 USD a night to rent a tent, probably in someone's backyard. Beyond ridiculous prices, Airbnbs have just become a pain. They often come with long lists of rules. Here are some of the most ridiculous that I've seen: clean everything before you go (what is my cleaning fee for?), put on the laundry (very common lately), or bag up the trash and take it out to the nearest t

zemvpferreira 1y ago

I'm an airbnb host with 5 apartments as a hobby business. As a traveller, I've stayed in hundreds since they started. There were no good old days and it's not horrible now. Like neighbourhood restaurants, there's massive variance in quality and it will be up to you to differentiate between the folks who care about their guests and those that rent apartments without windows. I had a host in 2012 in SF -a sweet alcoholic of an old man- who flashed me full frontal nudity before check-out. I had an apartment in Shenzhen in 2014 literally covered in roaches. I lasted one night. This year I stayed in an apartment in Andermatt with beautiful cherry wood floors, a phenomenal kitchen, sauna, a huge outdoor space and full view of the mountains for half the price of the nearest hotel room. Worse now than before? Bullshit. None of my guests have ever paid for a sheet. I comp extra nights if they're unbooked. I offer every towel under the sun, a warm body to check you in at any time and some wine and snacks if you arrive very late free of charge. I'm still nowhere close to being the most welcoming host in the city. There are great experiences to be had out there. If you want personality, to relate with the owners and get a good deal at the expense of total predictability, airbnb is for you. Ignore any listing that doesn't match the vibe. If you're looking for the travel equivalent of eating at Subway, a chain hotel will be a better option.

pembrook 1y ago

This is just simple economics. Now that the whole “serendipity and living in domestic spaces like a local” thing is dead and most Airbnb providers have professionalized —- it’s now just about value. Logically, who is going to provide the best value: - A massive hotel chain with economies of scale, purpose built properties, decades proven systems and hospitality processes - Individual startup hoteliers renting out non-purpose built spaces with ikea furniture, no economies of scale, no systems, ad hoc processes and expensive platform fees as overhead The highest end Airbnbs still offer what used to be available in the early days, but it just doesn’t make sense anymore for most people

rglover 1y ago

Airbnb lost me a few months back. My wife and I eloped and had a weekend getaway planned to celebrate. The place was out in the woods down back roads, had little to no lights (we got there at night), a narrow, unmaintained gravel driveway with literal boulders in it, and the cherry on top: none of the windows had curtains or blinds (you could just roll up the driveway and look right into the house). We left 20 minutes after getting there. Resolving this required three days of back-and-forth with Airbnb "support," being repeatedly gaslit that this was somehow my fault (I sent in multiple videos with the support rep lying and telling me I didn't upload anything), and told that they could do a partial refund. I had to threaten the employment of the support rep before they'd escalate and finally admit this was sketchy and issue a full refund. I knew things were unravelling when one stay at a different Airbnb about two years back left instructions that I had to place sheets and towels in the dryer before leaving (mandatory—with assumed threat of a negative guest review—despite having a separate cleaning fee). On top of this, I've noticed a decent chunk of the new construction homes in my area are/were just being bought for the express purpose of being an Airbnb. So, instead of families having access to affordable housing, a town house with no yard, built with Alibaba-grade materials in Middle Tennessee (in a town most people haven't heard of) starts at ~$300-400K [1]. Airbnb was a great idea in the past, but now it's just not worth it. Much better to spend roughly the same on a nice hotel where you're staying. [1] https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1561-Ansley-Park-Dr-Cookeville-TN-38501/442981735_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1561-Ansley-Park-Dr-Cooke...

TYPE_FASTER 1y ago

AirBnB reviews are not reliable. I made the mistake of booking an AirBnB without checking the TripAdvisor reviews first. We bailed after one night. The TripAdvisor reviews were honest, the AirBnB reviews were not.

kyleee 1y ago
Yes the reviews are basically fraudulent; to be discarded almost entirely

snackernews 1y ago

Americans and their driers.

iJohnDoe 1y ago

Never stayed in an Airbnb. The hidden cameras and the fees. Simply not worth it. It took 17 years for Airbnb to address the hidden cameras. Obviously doesn’t fix the problem, but still crazy it took them that long to even make a policy about it.

neonate 1y ago

https://archive.is/ByOCT https://archive.is/ByOCT