4 ms·

Sure, because status matters more than finances. Getting rich may be extremely unlikely if not outright impossible. Looking rich to your peers (and "feeling ric

by hnbad 1y ago

Sure, because status matters more than finances. Getting rich may be extremely unlikely if not outright impossible. Looking rich to your peers (and "feeling rich") on the other hand may just be a few years worth of small affordable installments away - even if it's completely superficial and short-lived. And entire industries will literally spend your every waking second trying to convince you that buying their product will make you feel rich.

klabb3 1y ago
You don’t even need an industry to convince you. Eg former Soviet countries were/are notorious for being obsessed with material luxury.
bluecalm 1y ago
It has nothing to do with credit. The whole buy-now-pay-later, 0% rates or pay-day loans industry came much later here. The same goes for predatory marketing industry. When I went to elementary school everyone was poor as it was a year after communism collapsed. People were still spending their last money on shiny things back then even if those shiny things weren't as shiny as they are today. >>Getting rich may be extremely unlikely if not outright impossible Again, in communist and then post communist countries no one thought we could be rich. The things we thought about back then was being able to buy enough food and trying to educate ourselves as education was valued in itself in some families. Even back then a lot of people spent their last money on pointless shiny things. I feel Americans and some Western Europeans look for ways to justify dumb behavior and come up with all those theories that have nothing to do with human nature. If you grow up in a country where everyone is the same race, everyone is poor (at least for a few years), the police is not out there to get you and healthcare is free even if terrible and you still witness people making the same stupid decisions you realize it has nothing to do with those theories and everything to do with education, values and ability to make sensible decisions.
- scythe 1y ago
  I think you're half right. But there are cultures in which people save money. (You can just run a web search for "savings rate".) My hypothesis is that "human" nature does play a role, specifically a very general phenomenon in animal psychology called "observational learning". If you see people around you who saved money and it worked out for them, you're more likely to imitate those people. Saving money probably isn't instinctive for the vast majority, but that doesn't mean it's unattainable. Taking the contrapositive, if we look at cultures where people don't save money, it's probably because of a lack of successful role models. Saving money hasn't worked out for people in that culture in the past, so there's nobody to imitate. There are always going to be a few people who do save money, but if they get wiped out by medical debt, rampant hyperinflation, or some other systemic crises, or if the country's bankruptcy laws are so generous that their spendthrift counterparts ultimately live better than they do, then their behavior is less likely to catch on. In the US, savings culture has been decimated by years of QE and ZIRP, so the people who poured all of their money into housing and stocks did better than the cautious types. Skeptics have claimed for years that this will lead to an awful hangover. We'll see.
  - barchar 1y ago
    It has a lot to do with the structure of economies. Usually they're big exporters with fairly stable currencies. The differences in savings rates are super huge, even within cultural groups. Demographics also play a role as does inequality.
  - bluecalm 1y ago
    >>I think you're half right. But there are cultures in which people save money. (You can just run a web search for "savings rate".) Yes definitely. My whole point is that it's about culture/values you learn as a child from your family not about external factors. >>Taking the contrapositive, if we look at cultures where people don't save money, it's probably because of a lack of successful role models. I am not sure if it's about role models or just about what your family/people close to you strongly believe. >>In the US, savings culture has been decimated by years of QE and ZIRP, so the people who poured all of their money into housing and stocks did better than the cautious types. Skeptics have claimed for years that this will lead to an awful hangover. We'll see. Well, pouring money into housing or stocks isn't that problematic if at all. I mean, housing as investment is problematic on its own but in a stable system investments like stocks will always do better (on average) than keeping money in the bank. The problematic thing is wasting money on pointless shiny things. The culture of materialism where you value is defined by the next expensive thing you can show off to your friends.

by hnbad 1y ago

klabb3 1y ago

You don’t even need an industry to convince you. Eg former Soviet countries were/are notorious for being obsessed with material luxury.

bluecalm 1y ago

It has nothing to do with credit. The whole buy-now-pay-later, 0% rates or pay-day loans industry came much later here. The same goes for predatory marketing industry. When I went to elementary school everyone was poor as it was a year after communism collapsed. People were still spending their last money on shiny things back then even if those shiny things weren't as shiny as they are today. >>Getting rich may be extremely unlikely if not outright impossible Again, in communist and then post communist countries no one thought we could be rich. The things we thought about back then was being able to buy enough food and trying to educate ourselves as education was valued in itself in some families. Even back then a lot of people spent their last money on pointless shiny things. I feel Americans and some Western Europeans look for ways to justify dumb behavior and come up with all those theories that have nothing to do with human nature. If you grow up in a country where everyone is the same race, everyone is poor (at least for a few years), the police is not out there to get you and healthcare is free even if terrible and you still witness people making the same stupid decisions you realize it has nothing to do with those theories and everything to do with education, values and ability to make sensible decisions.

scythe 1y ago
I think you're half right. But there are cultures in which people save money. (You can just run a web search for "savings rate".) My hypothesis is that "human" nature does play a role, specifically a very general phenomenon in animal psychology called "observational learning". If you see people around you who saved money and it worked out for them, you're more likely to imitate those people. Saving money probably isn't instinctive for the vast majority, but that doesn't mean it's unattainable. Taking the contrapositive, if we look at cultures where people don't save money, it's probably because of a lack of successful role models. Saving money hasn't worked out for people in that culture in the past, so there's nobody to imitate. There are always going to be a few people who do save money, but if they get wiped out by medical debt, rampant hyperinflation, or some other systemic crises, or if the country's bankruptcy laws are so generous that their spendthrift counterparts ultimately live better than they do, then their behavior is less likely to catch on. In the US, savings culture has been decimated by years of QE and ZIRP, so the people who poured all of their money into housing and stocks did better than the cautious types. Skeptics have claimed for years that this will lead to an awful hangover. We'll see.
- barchar 1y ago
  It has a lot to do with the structure of economies. Usually they're big exporters with fairly stable currencies. The differences in savings rates are super huge, even within cultural groups. Demographics also play a role as does inequality.
- bluecalm 1y ago
  >>I think you're half right. But there are cultures in which people save money. (You can just run a web search for "savings rate".) Yes definitely. My whole point is that it's about culture/values you learn as a child from your family not about external factors. >>Taking the contrapositive, if we look at cultures where people don't save money, it's probably because of a lack of successful role models. I am not sure if it's about role models or just about what your family/people close to you strongly believe. >>In the US, savings culture has been decimated by years of QE and ZIRP, so the people who poured all of their money into housing and stocks did better than the cautious types. Skeptics have claimed for years that this will lead to an awful hangover. We'll see. Well, pouring money into housing or stocks isn't that problematic if at all. I mean, housing as investment is problematic on its own but in a stable system investments like stocks will always do better (on average) than keeping money in the bank. The problematic thing is wasting money on pointless shiny things. The culture of materialism where you value is defined by the next expensive thing you can show off to your friends.