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You have severely misinterpreted that comment. They're saying that we should actually help Ukraine and end the war as soon as possible, instead of prolonging it

You have severely misinterpreted that comment. They're saying that we should actually help Ukraine and end the war as soon as possible, instead of prolonging it and causing untold suffering for symbolic victories over Russia. We have not established a no-fly-zone, we have under delivered on promises, we abandoned them even after the mineral deal, and we have repeated lied and slandered their country while parroting Kremlin propaganda. They're on your side that we should be doing those things to protect Ukraine. Like we promised all those decades ago.

nradov 1y ago
There was never any promise or obligation to establish a no-fly zone to protect Ukraine. If you're referring to the Budapest Memorandum, it was not a mutual defense treaty and the USA has already abided by 100% of the terms. I support giving Ukraine military aid, but putting our military personnel in direct conflict with Russia is a step way too far.
- Tadpole9181 1y ago
  Oh, come on, are we into legal weaseling now? It is profoundly clear that Ukraine sought protection in exchange for their actual protection. And regardless of the actual "required" protections, we have clearly violated the spirit of the agreement and proven to the whole world that the US is not to be trusted as a policing force for real conflicts - only those it chooses to start for financial or political gain - and that non-prolifération is a failure of a policy that only leads to becoming a victim of a lopsided war. Now, Iran acts as the finalizing example that any nation without nukes is a nation without true sovereignty. Even North Korea is treated with more respect. > Refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine, the Republic of Belarus, and Kazakhstan of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind. Mineral deal protection racket. > Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to the signatory if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used". Russia has threatened Ukraine with nuclear retaliation, even if they have not done it.
  - nradov 1y ago
    Have you ever even read the Budapest Memorandum? It contains no promise of protection, or even a vague implication thereof. It merely requires the USA to raise any violations with the UN Security Council, which was done. I absolutely oppose the Russian invasion of Ukraine and think that we (and other allies) should continue giving them the means to resist. But at the same time Ukraine shouldn't have left themselves so vulnerable by letting their military collapse prior to 2014 through a combination of corruption and apathy. In an anarchic world order you can't depend on anyone else to keep you safe.

nradov 1y ago

There was never any promise or obligation to establish a no-fly zone to protect Ukraine. If you're referring to the Budapest Memorandum, it was not a mutual defense treaty and the USA has already abided by 100% of the terms. I support giving Ukraine military aid, but putting our military personnel in direct conflict with Russia is a step way too far.

Tadpole9181 1y ago
Oh, come on, are we into legal weaseling now? It is profoundly clear that Ukraine sought protection in exchange for their actual protection. And regardless of the actual "required" protections, we have clearly violated the spirit of the agreement and proven to the whole world that the US is not to be trusted as a policing force for real conflicts - only those it chooses to start for financial or political gain - and that non-prolifération is a failure of a policy that only leads to becoming a victim of a lopsided war. Now, Iran acts as the finalizing example that any nation without nukes is a nation without true sovereignty. Even North Korea is treated with more respect. > Refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine, the Republic of Belarus, and Kazakhstan of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind. Mineral deal protection racket. > Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to the signatory if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used". Russia has threatened Ukraine with nuclear retaliation, even if they have not done it.
- nradov 1y ago
  Have you ever even read the Budapest Memorandum? It contains no promise of protection, or even a vague implication thereof. It merely requires the USA to raise any violations with the UN Security Council, which was done. I absolutely oppose the Russian invasion of Ukraine and think that we (and other allies) should continue giving them the means to resist. But at the same time Ukraine shouldn't have left themselves so vulnerable by letting their military collapse prior to 2014 through a combination of corruption and apathy. In an anarchic world order you can't depend on anyone else to keep you safe.