3 ms·

True, but AFAIK Waymo strictly follows speed limits.

by rs186 1y ago

dzhiurgis 1y ago
Which is why it couldn’t use highways for ages, as otherwise they’d been honked off the road
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > otherwise they’d been honked off the road Slowing down surrounding traffic to the speed limit would be an amazing safety multiplier for AVs.
  - potato3732842 1y ago
    It takes "I'm a good driver, all my accidents have been other people's fault" type ignorance to say such a thing. Have you ever followed a police escorted wide load, snow plow or other road obstruction to that effect? The sort of tightly packed surging traffic that follows those rolling road blocks is far, far, less safe than the baseline for the same road/traffic conditions sans the rolling roadblock. This is readily apparent to anyone who has ever encountered it.
    - seanmcdirmid 1y ago
      Pace cars are a thing. Traffic calming works by a similar principle. Automated traffic calming would be far from unprecedented. If it doesn't work out, it isn't because of the AVs following the speed limit, but the road and its capacity requirements are not actually fitted to that speed limit.
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      > It takes "I'm a good driver, all my accidents have been other people's fault" type ignorance No, it takes a person who hasn’t had an accident outside a parking lot in decades. Speed limits save lives. I am not an angel when it comes to them. And we definitely have an issue with stupid speed limits in towns as revenue traps. But on freeways? 65 to 80 mph is plenty. > tightly packed surging traffic that follows those rolling road blocks is far, far, less safe than the baseline for the same road/traffic conditions sans the rolling roadblock Totally false. Crashes decrease with congestion [2][3]. And mortality in a crash is essentially governed by speed [1]. A surging bolus is only as dangerous as its speed. [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29323934/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29323934/ [2] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10149483/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10149483/ [3] https://www.roads.maryland.gov/OPR_Research/MD-03-SP308B46-Congestion-Vs-Accidents-Report.pdf https://www.roads.maryland.gov/OPR_Research/MD-03-SP308B46-C...
      - potato3732842 1y ago
        [flagged]
        JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > That transition zone absolutely is dangerous And yet we have no evidence for this perfidious danger! Despite lots of evidence for its opposite, e.g. pacing cars making roads safer. Fortunately this discussion is moot as the authorisations for these EVs were granted before the crowd that concludes first and looks for evidence second took notice.
  - xnx 1y ago
    I believe Waymo has found evidence for this is their large scale date. Waymo reduces overall accidents on the areas they operate.
- rs186 1y ago
  Absolutely false. I have driven many hours at posted speed limits on highway in the rightmost lane in the US, and I yet need to hear one honk. And I have seen cars driving even slower -- absolutely no problem. Anyone that wants to move faster just changes lanes and moves on.
  - socalgal2 1y ago
    It probably depends on where. Try driving the speed limit (50mph) on the south bound 101 between the Bay Bridge and Portola. Especially near the 280 turn off. The "right lane" of the 101 is two lanes over from the right most lane because the 2 right most lanes turn off to the 280. Diving 50 there will get you (well, me) shouted at. No one seems to notice the speed limit is 50 and not 65 so the majority of cars are going 65 to 75mph. I thought about carrying a sign I could hold up "Speed limit 50mph!" for when I got screamed at for trying to go the speed limit I'm on the "enforce it or repeal it" side. I personally wish they'd put up cameras there and ticket everyone until they slowed down. Or change the signs to 65 if they're not going to enforce it. The north bound side is also treacherous in that area. Again, the speed limit is 50mph but the 280 merges on the right and people come off it at 65mph+. That makes it harrowing to get in the right lane for the Cesar Chavez exit from the 101. If you're going the 50mph speed limit you'll merge into a line going 65-70. If you go 65-70 you have far less time to get in the right line in time to make the exit.
- harmmonica 1y ago
  I've seen a few folks in this thread say this, but where you're from do people genuinely get honked at if they go the actual speed limit? I live in an area that's pretty famous for people driving a) with entitlement b) like shit and c) fast. Unless someone is camping out in the left lane (assuming a multi-lane highway and left-hand drive car) and they're driving the speed limit, I've literally never seen someone honk at a person going the speed limit in my lifetime. Even when folks are camped in the left lane I'm not sure I've seen that, though aggressive tailgating and/or flashing high beams is a regular occurrence. And then more often than not the left-lane blocker doesn't even do anything in response to that (or so those aggressive drivers stuck behind them tell me). I just don't think there's going to be any issue in most geographies if they go on highways/freeways and follow the speed limit (I guarantee that's true in the US; I'd go out on a limb and guess it's true almost everywhere). edit: grammar
- potato3732842 1y ago
  They could've done it just fine. You only get treated like shit on the roads if your behavior is both selfish/unnecessary and inconveniences others Garbage truck leaving a slowly but as fast as he can -> no problem Tesla M3 leaving a light slowly -> dude deserves ever honk he gets. BMW M3 weaving through traffic cuts people off but is gone as fast as he came -> nobody cares Prius doing 55 in the right lane -> no problem Prius doing 55 in the left lane because entitlement -> lots of middle fingers I have complete confidence waymo would have "done the right thing". The real problem is that there still would have been a million rear endings. Eventually the insurance companies would have sued them because no amount of idiots online screeching about the "rules" actually makes it ok to habitually create the preconditions for an accident. It would have been a big expensive legal fight. The state doesn't want high speed limits to reflect how fast people actually drive. Waymo doesn't wanna be involved in that. The insurance companies don't wanna be involved in that. It's just a no brainer not to given the constraints. Though I can't help but wonder if insurance rates would've eventually gone down for everyone if the issue got forced and it resulted in some sort of "after the 3rd rear ending they're on you by default" rule or something.
- awongh 1y ago
  I would go so far as to say that it's dangerous to drive what the speed limit is supposed to be, if everyone else is driving 15-30 miles an hour faster than you. Which also highlights one of the inherent flaws with laws and rules like speed limits. They don't ever actually mean, drive at this velocity. They always mean, drive at a safe speed and here is the number we all collectively agree on, unless we don't.
- drcongo 1y ago
  Do Waymos pull off the road when honked at? That feels like a design flaw to me.

True, but AFAIK Waymo strictly follows speed limits.

by rs186 1y ago

True, but AFAIK Waymo strictly follows speed limits.

dzhiurgis 1y ago

Which is why it couldn’t use highways for ages, as otherwise they’d been honked off the road

JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> otherwise they’d been honked off the road Slowing down surrounding traffic to the speed limit would be an amazing safety multiplier for AVs.
- potato3732842 1y ago
  It takes "I'm a good driver, all my accidents have been other people's fault" type ignorance to say such a thing. Have you ever followed a police escorted wide load, snow plow or other road obstruction to that effect? The sort of tightly packed surging traffic that follows those rolling road blocks is far, far, less safe than the baseline for the same road/traffic conditions sans the rolling roadblock. This is readily apparent to anyone who has ever encountered it.
  - seanmcdirmid 1y ago
    Pace cars are a thing. Traffic calming works by a similar principle. Automated traffic calming would be far from unprecedented. If it doesn't work out, it isn't because of the AVs following the speed limit, but the road and its capacity requirements are not actually fitted to that speed limit.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > It takes "I'm a good driver, all my accidents have been other people's fault" type ignorance No, it takes a person who hasn’t had an accident outside a parking lot in decades. Speed limits save lives. I am not an angel when it comes to them. And we definitely have an issue with stupid speed limits in towns as revenue traps. But on freeways? 65 to 80 mph is plenty. > tightly packed surging traffic that follows those rolling road blocks is far, far, less safe than the baseline for the same road/traffic conditions sans the rolling roadblock Totally false. Crashes decrease with congestion [2][3]. And mortality in a crash is essentially governed by speed [1]. A surging bolus is only as dangerous as its speed. [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29323934/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29323934/ [2] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10149483/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10149483/ [3] https://www.roads.maryland.gov/OPR_Research/MD-03-SP308B46-Congestion-Vs-Accidents-Report.pdf https://www.roads.maryland.gov/OPR_Research/MD-03-SP308B46-C...
    - potato3732842 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
        > That transition zone absolutely is dangerous And yet we have no evidence for this perfidious danger! Despite lots of evidence for its opposite, e.g. pacing cars making roads safer. Fortunately this discussion is moot as the authorisations for these EVs were granted before the crowd that concludes first and looks for evidence second took notice.
- xnx 1y ago
  I believe Waymo has found evidence for this is their large scale date. Waymo reduces overall accidents on the areas they operate.
rs186 1y ago
Absolutely false. I have driven many hours at posted speed limits on highway in the rightmost lane in the US, and I yet need to hear one honk. And I have seen cars driving even slower -- absolutely no problem. Anyone that wants to move faster just changes lanes and moves on.
- socalgal2 1y ago
  It probably depends on where. Try driving the speed limit (50mph) on the south bound 101 between the Bay Bridge and Portola. Especially near the 280 turn off. The "right lane" of the 101 is two lanes over from the right most lane because the 2 right most lanes turn off to the 280. Diving 50 there will get you (well, me) shouted at. No one seems to notice the speed limit is 50 and not 65 so the majority of cars are going 65 to 75mph. I thought about carrying a sign I could hold up "Speed limit 50mph!" for when I got screamed at for trying to go the speed limit I'm on the "enforce it or repeal it" side. I personally wish they'd put up cameras there and ticket everyone until they slowed down. Or change the signs to 65 if they're not going to enforce it. The north bound side is also treacherous in that area. Again, the speed limit is 50mph but the 280 merges on the right and people come off it at 65mph+. That makes it harrowing to get in the right lane for the Cesar Chavez exit from the 101. If you're going the 50mph speed limit you'll merge into a line going 65-70. If you go 65-70 you have far less time to get in the right line in time to make the exit.
harmmonica 1y ago
I've seen a few folks in this thread say this, but where you're from do people genuinely get honked at if they go the actual speed limit? I live in an area that's pretty famous for people driving a) with entitlement b) like shit and c) fast. Unless someone is camping out in the left lane (assuming a multi-lane highway and left-hand drive car) and they're driving the speed limit, I've literally never seen someone honk at a person going the speed limit in my lifetime. Even when folks are camped in the left lane I'm not sure I've seen that, though aggressive tailgating and/or flashing high beams is a regular occurrence. And then more often than not the left-lane blocker doesn't even do anything in response to that (or so those aggressive drivers stuck behind them tell me). I just don't think there's going to be any issue in most geographies if they go on highways/freeways and follow the speed limit (I guarantee that's true in the US; I'd go out on a limb and guess it's true almost everywhere). edit: grammar
potato3732842 1y ago
They could've done it just fine. You only get treated like shit on the roads if your behavior is both selfish/unnecessary and inconveniences others Garbage truck leaving a slowly but as fast as he can -> no problem Tesla M3 leaving a light slowly -> dude deserves ever honk he gets. BMW M3 weaving through traffic cuts people off but is gone as fast as he came -> nobody cares Prius doing 55 in the right lane -> no problem Prius doing 55 in the left lane because entitlement -> lots of middle fingers I have complete confidence waymo would have "done the right thing". The real problem is that there still would have been a million rear endings. Eventually the insurance companies would have sued them because no amount of idiots online screeching about the "rules" actually makes it ok to habitually create the preconditions for an accident. It would have been a big expensive legal fight. The state doesn't want high speed limits to reflect how fast people actually drive. Waymo doesn't wanna be involved in that. The insurance companies don't wanna be involved in that. It's just a no brainer not to given the constraints. Though I can't help but wonder if insurance rates would've eventually gone down for everyone if the issue got forced and it resulted in some sort of "after the 3rd rear ending they're on you by default" rule or something.
awongh 1y ago
I would go so far as to say that it's dangerous to drive what the speed limit is supposed to be, if everyone else is driving 15-30 miles an hour faster than you. Which also highlights one of the inherent flaws with laws and rules like speed limits. They don't ever actually mean, drive at this velocity. They always mean, drive at a safe speed and here is the number we all collectively agree on, unless we don't.
drcongo 1y ago
Do Waymos pull off the road when honked at? That feels like a design flaw to me.