4 ms·

I don't think it's about planned obsolescence. It's about cutting costs and having one less hole water can get in. Also wired headphones are a very niche marke

I don't think it's about planned obsolescence. It's about cutting costs and having one less hole water can get in. Also wired headphones are a very niche market. If you care so much there are wireless DACs that can feed your wired headphones better than any phone in history.

winternewt 1y ago
How do they avoid lossy compression?
- emsign 1y ago
  By applying Psychoacoustics. Lossy compression is a problem long solved.
  - meepmorp 1y ago
    that's not avoiding lossy compression, that's choosing a form that people (hopefully) won't notice
    - kayson 1y ago
      By that logic, so is using 16 bits and 44khz sampling rate.
      - okanat 1y ago
        16-bit 44 Khz almost perfectly reproduces human hearing. It wasn't a coincidence that the makers of CDs chose it. Anything above is studio-grade stuff to give extra headroom for editing (applying filters in studio editing can amplify noise which is unwanted, for just playing audio there are no advantages). With standard Bluetooth codecs you get nowhere close to that and there is a significant noticeable delay for video content. Headphone jack is easy to make IP68. All rugged phones have it and all non-rugged ones have a USB port which is bigger and more irregular than a frigging circle.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
chaosharmonic 1y ago
My hotter take is that this is the same problem as IR blasters, and relative to the old normal -- when device makers like LG were specifically advertising how awesome their built-in DAC was -- this whole thing could be solved in a much more elegant, flexible way if anyone at all would just give us a second fucking USB port.
- _carbyau_ 1y ago
  > just give us a second fucking USB port So much this. I had an nVidia (Tegra?) based phone with USB, headphone jack, HDMI. While I don't think a USB port would allow for FM radio using the headphone cord simply having more would be fantastic! But if laptop designers can barely fit two USB-C ports I'm not sure what chance we have against the phone designers...
- jack_pp 1y ago
  Sony tried to compete with the best camera, best DAC and I don't think those phones sold. Manufacturers build products the market wants. Wired headphones are not what the market wants. If you are a true purist you buy stuff from fiio and carry more then one device. This is the same thing as with small phones. A vocal minority cried far and wide that they wanted them. Apple made them.. and they did, not, sell.
  - nialv7 1y ago
    I don't know if you meant it but you seem to imply that that vocal minority only cried but didn't buy the small phones? You know a minority is a _minority_, even if everyone in that minority bought a iPhone Mini, the sales number is still not going to be high. (Edit: just checked, in 2022, 3% of iPhones sold were 13 Minis. not high but surely someone out there can run a sustainable business out of that 3% of mobile phones)
    - jack_pp 1y ago
      There is a market, fiio is capitalizing on it. https://www.fiio.com/utws1 https://www.fiio.com/utws1 I remember seeing something like this for over ear, you just stream tidal to them so there shouldn't be compression issues. Might be a delay idk.
h4ck_th3_pl4n3t 1y ago
> It's about cutting costs and having one less hole water can get in. That's a lazy excuse. Every single IP68 rugged phone has a headphone jack. And the ones that are more waterproof even made for diving with them also have one.
- xmprt 1y ago
  Those rugged phones are also thicker and more expensive for what you're getting. Mainstream companies have tried offering the headphone jack in some phones and every single time, those phone have undersold their jackless competitors.
  - Dylan16807 1y ago
    > Mainstream companies have tried offering the headphone jack in some phones and every single time, those phone have undersold their jackless competitors. What, when? I hope you don't mean when the flagship phone has no headphone jack, and a mid tier phone does. It's not the choice between the headphone jack and 3% more battery making the decision in that situation.
  - user_7832 1y ago
    > Those rugged phones are also thicker and more expensive for what you're getting. Mainstream companies have tried offering the headphone jack in some phones and every single time, those phone have undersold their jackless competitors. Yeah… the budget Moto G3 from 2015 with IPX7 says hi. To the limited surprise of anyone who was familiar with the brand back then, the top model (16GB/2gb) sold out in less than a week. You can’t tell me it’s harder to waterproof a headphone jack in 2025 than it was in 2015. And could you please tell me how a rubber gasket adds appreciable thickness to a phone? Because I find that a bit hard to believe.
- mc3301 1y ago
  Blackview n6000 has no headphone jack.
  - h4ck_th3_pl4n3t 1y ago
Dylan16807 1y ago
> If you care so much there are wireless DACs that can feed your wired headphones better than any phone in history. Don't they all have 50-300ms of latency? If you have a quality non-bluetooth suggestion, or I'm wrong about the latency of bluetooth, I'd be excited to hear it.
- tsimionescu 1y ago
  I have no idea if those numbers are correct, but I'm curious - why would latency matter for high quality audio? Jitter is the only thing that impacts audio quality, unless you are doing two-way communication.
  - Dylan16807 1y ago
    Because I press buttons and want immediate feedback. And I want it to work with calls were any extra latency is bad. And I want it to work with my desktop where I play games and extra latency ruins things.

winternewt 1y ago

How do they avoid lossy compression?

emsign 1y ago
By applying Psychoacoustics. Lossy compression is a problem long solved.
- meepmorp 1y ago
  that's not avoiding lossy compression, that's choosing a form that people (hopefully) won't notice
  - kayson 1y ago
    By that logic, so is using 16 bits and 44khz sampling rate.
    - okanat 1y ago
      16-bit 44 Khz almost perfectly reproduces human hearing. It wasn't a coincidence that the makers of CDs chose it. Anything above is studio-grade stuff to give extra headroom for editing (applying filters in studio editing can amplify noise which is unwanted, for just playing audio there are no advantages). With standard Bluetooth codecs you get nowhere close to that and there is a significant noticeable delay for video content. Headphone jack is easy to make IP68. All rugged phones have it and all non-rugged ones have a USB port which is bigger and more irregular than a frigging circle.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]

chaosharmonic 1y ago

My hotter take is that this is the same problem as IR blasters, and relative to the old normal -- when device makers like LG were specifically advertising how awesome their built-in DAC was -- this whole thing could be solved in a much more elegant, flexible way if anyone at all would just give us a second fucking USB port.

_carbyau_ 1y ago
> just give us a second fucking USB port So much this. I had an nVidia (Tegra?) based phone with USB, headphone jack, HDMI. While I don't think a USB port would allow for FM radio using the headphone cord simply having more would be fantastic! But if laptop designers can barely fit two USB-C ports I'm not sure what chance we have against the phone designers...
jack_pp 1y ago
Sony tried to compete with the best camera, best DAC and I don't think those phones sold. Manufacturers build products the market wants. Wired headphones are not what the market wants. If you are a true purist you buy stuff from fiio and carry more then one device. This is the same thing as with small phones. A vocal minority cried far and wide that they wanted them. Apple made them.. and they did, not, sell.
- nialv7 1y ago
  I don't know if you meant it but you seem to imply that that vocal minority only cried but didn't buy the small phones? You know a minority is a _minority_, even if everyone in that minority bought a iPhone Mini, the sales number is still not going to be high. (Edit: just checked, in 2022, 3% of iPhones sold were 13 Minis. not high but surely someone out there can run a sustainable business out of that 3% of mobile phones)
  - jack_pp 1y ago
    There is a market, fiio is capitalizing on it. https://www.fiio.com/utws1 https://www.fiio.com/utws1 I remember seeing something like this for over ear, you just stream tidal to them so there shouldn't be compression issues. Might be a delay idk.

h4ck_th3_pl4n3t 1y ago

> It's about cutting costs and having one less hole water can get in. That's a lazy excuse. Every single IP68 rugged phone has a headphone jack. And the ones that are more waterproof even made for diving with them also have one.

xmprt 1y ago
Those rugged phones are also thicker and more expensive for what you're getting. Mainstream companies have tried offering the headphone jack in some phones and every single time, those phone have undersold their jackless competitors.
- Dylan16807 1y ago
  > Mainstream companies have tried offering the headphone jack in some phones and every single time, those phone have undersold their jackless competitors. What, when? I hope you don't mean when the flagship phone has no headphone jack, and a mid tier phone does. It's not the choice between the headphone jack and 3% more battery making the decision in that situation.
- user_7832 1y ago
  > Those rugged phones are also thicker and more expensive for what you're getting. Mainstream companies have tried offering the headphone jack in some phones and every single time, those phone have undersold their jackless competitors. Yeah… the budget Moto G3 from 2015 with IPX7 says hi. To the limited surprise of anyone who was familiar with the brand back then, the top model (16GB/2gb) sold out in less than a week. You can’t tell me it’s harder to waterproof a headphone jack in 2025 than it was in 2015. And could you please tell me how a rubber gasket adds appreciable thickness to a phone? Because I find that a bit hard to believe.
mc3301 1y ago
Blackview n6000 has no headphone jack.
- h4ck_th3_pl4n3t 1y ago

Dylan16807 1y ago

> If you care so much there are wireless DACs that can feed your wired headphones better than any phone in history. Don't they all have 50-300ms of latency? If you have a quality non-bluetooth suggestion, or I'm wrong about the latency of bluetooth, I'd be excited to hear it.

tsimionescu 1y ago
I have no idea if those numbers are correct, but I'm curious - why would latency matter for high quality audio? Jitter is the only thing that impacts audio quality, unless you are doing two-way communication.
- Dylan16807 1y ago
  Because I press buttons and want immediate feedback. And I want it to work with calls were any extra latency is bad. And I want it to work with my desktop where I play games and extra latency ruins things.