4 ms·

Mass immigration has been a fake specter used by the right to get votes for decades now. How did it impact you, or even those close to you personally negatively

Mass immigration has been a fake specter used by the right to get votes for decades now. How did it impact you, or even those close to you personally negatively? I can tell you some positive impacts: - Most western countries are concerned about economic cliffs around retirement benefits due to falling population. The US is not because so many people, used to(?), want to move here. - Our food is subsidized by those willing to work awful hours at awful wages. As a humanitarian I hate this but I suspect most people would be upset to have to eat food picked at wages white Americans are willing to work. - Most studies show more people equals more production equals more economic prosperity. The solution to an illegal immigration problem is to loosen immigration rules and create pathways to citizenship.

msgodel 1y ago
[flagged]
- roxolotl 1y ago
  > Without freedom of association people stop socializing when you get a plurality population, you can see this everywhere in the US. Can you elaborate on this? To me, again just being honest and genuine, it reads as a racist dog whistle which says “without a shared cultural baseline this country will collapse”. I’ve worked with local immigrant advocate groups and have multiple immigrants living on the same street as me. They largely want nothing more than to be part of American society. Is this a range? Absolutely. Different people want to be part of society to different extents. But it’s very rare to find people who won’t be kind and welcoming to you if you are kind and welcoming to them. On housing that’s obviously true. There are two solutions there. Reduce the demand, or increase the supply. Given that the demand is “humans wanting shelter” any attempt to reduce demand is clearly immoral. So the answer there is to up the supply. I also genuinely want immigrants. At a minimum they bring delicious food I get to enjoy.
  - text0404 1y ago
    This person believes in the (white) replacement conspiracy theory and is trying to articulate its tenets without referencing or naming it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Replacement_conspiracy_theory_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Replacement_conspiracy_t...
    - msgodel 1y ago
      I'm fine with naming it although I think there are legitimate practical problems beyond just that. Why is it wrong to not want to be made a minority in your own country? Most of the time when that's been done to other people it's been strongly condemned for good reasons. Why when it's done to some of the most productive (and I would argue just) people in history is it considered a good thing? Why is it surprising that people prefer to be around other people like them and don't function as well with people who don't behave the same way?
      - awnird 1y ago
        Why would that be a problem? Are minorities treated badly in America?
        msgodel 1y ago
        1) Minorities are going to have a worse experience anywhere just for practical reasons and additionally because of how human socialization naturally works. That's why we're so concerned about how they're treated and constantly do our best to help them. 2) The plurality or majority that replaces us will not be us and will not share our ideas (liberal democracy, market economies are two notable examples) which naturally we're going to prefer to theirs. 3) Globally people have been exceptionally unkind to minorities compared to how we've treated them. If they replicate that behavior here (and when they've been given the opportunity to they have) that absolutely is a problem.
      - roxolotl 1y ago
        Why does race matter at all? Why would you become a minority? We’re defining minority here as racial and that’s totally arbitrary. It’s so arbitrary that if you look at the early 1900s you’ll see that Italians and Irish weren’t considered white and would be considered a minority. Cultural differences are already massive across the US even amongst long time Americans. If you meet 10th generation Americans in New England, The South, The Midwest, and California their cultural differences are already at the size of a different country. There is no majority that’s being replaced. I know this because I’ve lived in those places and in Europe and Asia. The US has always been a place where cultures mix and change. I’m sorry that makes you anxious. Harming others isn’t the way to resolve that anxiety though.
- matwood 1y ago
  > Without freedom of association people stop socializing when you get a plurality population, you can see this everywhere in the US. What does this mean? Why would people stop socializing? > If the immigrants were a net benefit things like housing would be getting cheaper since we otherwise would have shrinking population. Because of the effect I mentioned the opposite is happening. Of all the issues with housing, you think immigrants are the primary force driving prices up? That a farm worker is causing houses in my neighborhood to be $1M+? Once all the constructing workers are driven away, we're about to see a real supply shock likely to drive prices higher. > Plus just replacing the population doesn't actually help them. Help who? Fewer Americans are having kids. The US economic system is built on growth and that also means population growth. An aging and shrinking US is a dying US. > None of us need or want more immigrants. Why not, and be specific. More so than anywhere else in the world, the US was built on immigration. Even with all the problems in the US, its ability to attract people who want to work hard and create a better life has been its superpower. This mixing pot of ideas and cultures is one of the keys that turned the US into the economic powerhouse it is today. Unfortunately, Trump is doing his best to dismantle the institutions that made America great. Yes, immigration needs to be fixed. The people already in the US need to be given straightforward paths to be legal. And people outside the US should be given straightforward ways to come live and work and contribute to the US.
  - msgodel 1y ago
    >Help who? Fewer Americans are having kids Oh so we don't need the help? >The people already in the US need to be given straightforward paths to be legal. No? You don't have a right to live somewhere just because you break in and camp there for a few years. If I broke into Mexico that way they'd evict me. Doing anything else is completely insane.
tomp 1y ago
You're a bit wrong here, aren't you? - US is special because it is by far the richest and most entrepreneurial (big) country in the world; it gets the creme of the crop of the world, and corresponding economic growth, which no other Western country can replicate; many people want to move to all Western countries (e.g. Europe is experiencing an immigration crisis) but unfiltered (low-skill) immigration doesn't result in economic growth - illegal (slave?) labour on farms is simply delaying automation, which is ultimately detrimental to economic growth [1] - in fact, recent studies (and public data) show that non-Western immigrants are not net taxpayers, therefore they result in the opposite of economic prosperity (see graph in [2]) [1] https://x.com/Indian_Bronson/status/1933725059837014066 https://x.com/Indian_Bronson/status/1933725059837014066 [2] https://archive.is/Kaqrp https://archive.is/Kaqrp

msgodel 1y ago

[flagged]

roxolotl 1y ago
> Without freedom of association people stop socializing when you get a plurality population, you can see this everywhere in the US. Can you elaborate on this? To me, again just being honest and genuine, it reads as a racist dog whistle which says “without a shared cultural baseline this country will collapse”. I’ve worked with local immigrant advocate groups and have multiple immigrants living on the same street as me. They largely want nothing more than to be part of American society. Is this a range? Absolutely. Different people want to be part of society to different extents. But it’s very rare to find people who won’t be kind and welcoming to you if you are kind and welcoming to them. On housing that’s obviously true. There are two solutions there. Reduce the demand, or increase the supply. Given that the demand is “humans wanting shelter” any attempt to reduce demand is clearly immoral. So the answer there is to up the supply. I also genuinely want immigrants. At a minimum they bring delicious food I get to enjoy.
- text0404 1y ago
  This person believes in the (white) replacement conspiracy theory and is trying to articulate its tenets without referencing or naming it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Replacement_conspiracy_theory_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Replacement_conspiracy_t...
  - msgodel 1y ago
    I'm fine with naming it although I think there are legitimate practical problems beyond just that. Why is it wrong to not want to be made a minority in your own country? Most of the time when that's been done to other people it's been strongly condemned for good reasons. Why when it's done to some of the most productive (and I would argue just) people in history is it considered a good thing? Why is it surprising that people prefer to be around other people like them and don't function as well with people who don't behave the same way?
    - awnird 1y ago
      Why would that be a problem? Are minorities treated badly in America?
      - msgodel 1y ago
        1) Minorities are going to have a worse experience anywhere just for practical reasons and additionally because of how human socialization naturally works. That's why we're so concerned about how they're treated and constantly do our best to help them. 2) The plurality or majority that replaces us will not be us and will not share our ideas (liberal democracy, market economies are two notable examples) which naturally we're going to prefer to theirs. 3) Globally people have been exceptionally unkind to minorities compared to how we've treated them. If they replicate that behavior here (and when they've been given the opportunity to they have) that absolutely is a problem.
    - roxolotl 1y ago
      Why does race matter at all? Why would you become a minority? We’re defining minority here as racial and that’s totally arbitrary. It’s so arbitrary that if you look at the early 1900s you’ll see that Italians and Irish weren’t considered white and would be considered a minority. Cultural differences are already massive across the US even amongst long time Americans. If you meet 10th generation Americans in New England, The South, The Midwest, and California their cultural differences are already at the size of a different country. There is no majority that’s being replaced. I know this because I’ve lived in those places and in Europe and Asia. The US has always been a place where cultures mix and change. I’m sorry that makes you anxious. Harming others isn’t the way to resolve that anxiety though.
matwood 1y ago
> Without freedom of association people stop socializing when you get a plurality population, you can see this everywhere in the US. What does this mean? Why would people stop socializing? > If the immigrants were a net benefit things like housing would be getting cheaper since we otherwise would have shrinking population. Because of the effect I mentioned the opposite is happening. Of all the issues with housing, you think immigrants are the primary force driving prices up? That a farm worker is causing houses in my neighborhood to be $1M+? Once all the constructing workers are driven away, we're about to see a real supply shock likely to drive prices higher. > Plus just replacing the population doesn't actually help them. Help who? Fewer Americans are having kids. The US economic system is built on growth and that also means population growth. An aging and shrinking US is a dying US. > None of us need or want more immigrants. Why not, and be specific. More so than anywhere else in the world, the US was built on immigration. Even with all the problems in the US, its ability to attract people who want to work hard and create a better life has been its superpower. This mixing pot of ideas and cultures is one of the keys that turned the US into the economic powerhouse it is today. Unfortunately, Trump is doing his best to dismantle the institutions that made America great. Yes, immigration needs to be fixed. The people already in the US need to be given straightforward paths to be legal. And people outside the US should be given straightforward ways to come live and work and contribute to the US.
- msgodel 1y ago
  >Help who? Fewer Americans are having kids Oh so we don't need the help? >The people already in the US need to be given straightforward paths to be legal. No? You don't have a right to live somewhere just because you break in and camp there for a few years. If I broke into Mexico that way they'd evict me. Doing anything else is completely insane.

tomp 1y ago

You're a bit wrong here, aren't you? - US is special because it is by far the richest and most entrepreneurial (big) country in the world; it gets the creme of the crop of the world, and corresponding economic growth, which no other Western country can replicate; many people want to move to all Western countries (e.g. Europe is experiencing an immigration crisis) but unfiltered (low-skill) immigration doesn't result in economic growth - illegal (slave?) labour on farms is simply delaying automation, which is ultimately detrimental to economic growth [1] - in fact, recent studies (and public data) show that non-Western immigrants are not net taxpayers, therefore they result in the opposite of economic prosperity (see graph in [2]) [1] https://x.com/Indian_Bronson/status/1933725059837014066 https://x.com/Indian_Bronson/status/1933725059837014066 [2] https://archive.is/Kaqrp https://archive.is/Kaqrp