4 ms·

> By definition, a computer is a machine that processes and stores data as ones and zeroes. No, of course thats only true for digital computers. Otherwise, wha

by FrojoS 14y ago

> By definition, a computer is a machine that processes and stores data as ones and zeroes. No, of course thats only true for digital computers. Otherwise, what would be the point of the headline? Not a great article but interesting news. I could imagine specialized computer for artificial neural networks (ANN) being commercially successful in the future. Not sure if this is what the people in this DARPA project are working on. As far as I can tell, there are a lot of breakthroughs in ANN's at the moment, especially in the realms of pattern (e.g. image) recognition: Ng: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmNOAtZIgIk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmNOAtZIgIk Hinton: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4403662 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4403662

boboblong 14y ago
And it isn't even true of digital computers. Binary data can be interpreted as ones and zeroes, but it isn't inherently numerical.
ralfd 14y ago
> No, of course thats only true for digital computers. Not even that. Computers with ternary instead of binary logic are possible: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ternary_computer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ternary_computer Quote: "The only modern, electronic ternary computer Setun was built in the late 1950s in the Soviet Union at the Moscow State University by Nikolay Brusentsov […] IBM also reports infrequently on ternary computing topics (in its papers), but it is not actively engaged in it."
- derekp7 14y ago
  Which brings up a question I've always had. If a Quantum computer uses bits that are on, off, and both, can't this be simulated with a Ternary computer?
  - cgranade 14y ago
    You need more classical resources to model a qubit in generality. This is because a qubit can be in the "0" state, the "1" state, or in any superposition between them. For a single qubit, you can describe an arbitrary superposition by two angles [1], each of which is a continuous real number. While you can't extract both of these parameters from a single measurement, a classical computer has to know both angles to simulate that qubit. Thus, it's more like that you need two floats to simulate a single qubit. When you have more than one qubit, the requirements get much worse, as you can have superpositions over all of the possible classical states. When you work through the math, you find that you need a vector of 2^n - 1 complex floats to model a register of n qubits in full generality. Going from a classical bit to a classical trit does nothing to help with that exponential scaling. [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloch_sphere http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloch_sphere
  - ars 14y ago
    It's not just "both" it's 1 and 0 in any proportion. 97% 1 and 3% 0, 23% 1 and 77% 0, etc.
mbell 14y ago
> I could imagine specialized computer for artificial neural networks (ANN) being commercially successful in the future. There are a few companies already commercializing this, CogniMem[0] is one that comes to mind. However, I haven't heard of any commercial scale "success" stories despite their first parts being built in 2008. [0] http://www.cognimem.com/index.html http://www.cognimem.com/index.html
bane 14y ago
Many pre-digital computers are really interesting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVOhYROKeu4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVOhYROKeu4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_xhMykK5Hw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_xhMykK5Hw http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=MqhuAnySPZ0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&...
burke 14y ago
That was a really weak line to open with. I actually groaned and closed the tab as soon as I read it.
- ktizo 14y ago
  I had a similar issue. Some bit of my head just started swearing and shouting stuff about op-amps before I could get any further. That happens sometimes.

by FrojoS 14y ago

boboblong 14y ago

And it isn't even true of digital computers. Binary data can be interpreted as ones and zeroes, but it isn't inherently numerical.

ralfd 14y ago

> No, of course thats only true for digital computers. Not even that. Computers with ternary instead of binary logic are possible: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ternary_computer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ternary_computer Quote: "The only modern, electronic ternary computer Setun was built in the late 1950s in the Soviet Union at the Moscow State University by Nikolay Brusentsov […] IBM also reports infrequently on ternary computing topics (in its papers), but it is not actively engaged in it."

derekp7 14y ago
Which brings up a question I've always had. If a Quantum computer uses bits that are on, off, and both, can't this be simulated with a Ternary computer?
- cgranade 14y ago
  You need more classical resources to model a qubit in generality. This is because a qubit can be in the "0" state, the "1" state, or in any superposition between them. For a single qubit, you can describe an arbitrary superposition by two angles [1], each of which is a continuous real number. While you can't extract both of these parameters from a single measurement, a classical computer has to know both angles to simulate that qubit. Thus, it's more like that you need two floats to simulate a single qubit. When you have more than one qubit, the requirements get much worse, as you can have superpositions over all of the possible classical states. When you work through the math, you find that you need a vector of 2^n - 1 complex floats to model a register of n qubits in full generality. Going from a classical bit to a classical trit does nothing to help with that exponential scaling. [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloch_sphere http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloch_sphere
- ars 14y ago
  It's not just "both" it's 1 and 0 in any proportion. 97% 1 and 3% 0, 23% 1 and 77% 0, etc.

mbell 14y ago

> I could imagine specialized computer for artificial neural networks (ANN) being commercially successful in the future. There are a few companies already commercializing this, CogniMem[0] is one that comes to mind. However, I haven't heard of any commercial scale "success" stories despite their first parts being built in 2008. [0] http://www.cognimem.com/index.html http://www.cognimem.com/index.html

bane 14y ago

Many pre-digital computers are really interesting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVOhYROKeu4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVOhYROKeu4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_xhMykK5Hw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_xhMykK5Hw http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=MqhuAnySPZ0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&...

burke 14y ago

That was a really weak line to open with. I actually groaned and closed the tab as soon as I read it.

ktizo 14y ago
I had a similar issue. Some bit of my head just started swearing and shouting stuff about op-amps before I could get any further. That happens sometimes.