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Amazon remains totally complacent of these issues which are now professionally hacked by China based providers day in and out. Tons of vitamins are now fake and

Amazon remains totally complacent of these issues which are now professionally hacked by China based providers day in and out. Tons of vitamins are now fake and downright harmful. A lot of books, even small scale ones, are also fake and very low quality. I tried to move my purchases to Walmart and surprisingly, even after 25 years, they haven’t got act together. Walmart even haven’t recognized that they should jump on this problem by prominently showing authentic brand logo or something. I also tried to move all my books purchasing to B&N and again, surprisingly, they haven’t learned any real lesson in past 25 years. Their website is clunky, they charge $7 delivery fee, they can’t even deliver to my nearest their own shop for free! Amazon is definitely riding on this utterly deficient competitors and that’s why they get to be so complacent.

kevin_thibedeau 1y ago
Walmart.com is a rebranded Jet.com. They've only owned it for 9 years.
- bmitc 1y ago
  And they have the same problems because they allow third party sellers. So far, Target seems it hasn't gone done this rode yet.
  - Rebelgecko 1y ago
    As long as they don't commingle inventory it's relatively easy to avoid (not sure if that's the case or not, but seems like most of the 3rd party sellers do their own shipping) FWIW my main annoyance with Walmarts website is that it's not clear if you package is coming via shipping service like FedEx, who has access to my apartment complex, or just some dude in his car who needs to call me while I'm at work to be buzzed in
    - Spooky23 1y ago
      Walmart is Walmart. They hire the cheapest people possible and treat them like shit. I get stuff from Walmart all of the time from their delivery drivers. The catch: I’ve never ordered anything from Walmart.
  - colejohnson66 1y ago
    Target does allow third-party sellers on Target.com (and the app), but they allow in-store returns on anything — even third-party items. When I worked as a receiver, there were random items to process out that would normally/likely be salvage, but went to the returns processing center because they were from online orders. There also seems to be curation.
- ungreased0675 1y ago
  It’s surprising they’re not trying to take Amazon market share by eliminating scammy third party vendors and counterfeit products. I think people would be interested in an Amazon like service without the dropshipped and fake junk.
  - silisili 1y ago
    In many ways it's actually worse. I don't remember the item now, but something I'd bought semi regularly from Walmart. It was boosted in my search/you may like results, which makes sense. Except the product was 10x the price, and not sold by Walmart. There's no clear indication of that until you actually click into it, though. So you can add it to your cart and buy it easily without knowing any of that, by design I guess. It seems 3rd party sellers know how it works, and probably make a ton of money sniping out of stock items. I almost fell for it as I rarely scrutinize prices, I can't imagine how many people go through with it not knowing any better.
    - SoftTalker 1y ago
      You can filter searches so you only see stuff sold and shipped by Walmart but it does seem that the filters reset frequently/randomly so you always need to double check.
      - silisili 1y ago
        Most of my use is actually local pickup or delivery, so I often use the 'In Store' filter often. It lasts only as long as that session, unfortunately.
  - aydyn 1y ago
    It's not surprising at all. Keep in mind that Walmart is a multi-billion dollar business, so its certain they did an analysis on this. Convenience > Quality as dictated by the Median Consumer.
  - slumberlust 1y ago
    They did the exact opposite and immediately copied the marketplace schema.
jekwoooooe 1y ago
I would barely trust Amazon for authentic shampoo never mind vitamins. Are people so desperate to save single dollars they gamble with their health?
- lmm 1y ago
  It's not about being cheaper, it's about convenience. And realistically what's the more trustworthy alternative? Even the reputable high street shops sell homeopathy and bags of random herbs that might be the thing on the label, never mind picking a no-name online store.
  - rincebrain 1y ago
    I think part of the problem is also that how prevalent it is varies wildly by where you are, and therefore which Amazon distribution centers you're hitting. To elaborate - in NYC, I usually avoid ordering from Amazon for anything where it's cheap or something health-related, but even when I've sometimes given up finding it easily elsewhere and bought it there, it's not been, as far as I could tell, a counterfeit item. That's not to say I can easily prove that or that I'm encouraging people to order from there, but I personally haven't encountered boxes full of things other than the intended item, or the like, and I would suspect the problem's prevalence varies heavily with volume (and thus, turnover) and location.
    - Projectiboga 1y ago
      The issue w AMZ is the sku mixing. Two or more different batches of stuff get mixed. A lot of the bad stuff are rejects or seconds that get the same packaging, so w Amz it is always a small chance.
      - close04 1y ago
        Even without the mixing Amazon will occasionally have a "fire sale" on things sold by themselves or 3rd party stores and every time this happens the recent reviews are that the product was expired, or used, or damaged, etc. Even for products where returns aren't accepted which just adds insult to injury. So it's just dumping of worthless stock. For example this seems to be the case with air friers (only because I had my eye on this) every Prime Day, they all get flooded with dozens of reviews that the product was damaged or used. I don't trust Amazon offers because of this. So I either just buy the super cheap, disposable stuff where a trip to a shop isn't worth it, or things that have guaranteed free returns. Sometimes I'd rather order online because I have a guaranteed window to test and return if it's not what I want. For purchases in person the law here doesn't guarantee a return window for products that work but just aren't what I thought they'd be. Or I have to argue endlessly at the store for them to take it back.
fortran77 1y ago
Try Target.com
PaulHoule 1y ago
AMZN is my last choice for buying anything. An attempt to buy this stuff https://www.amazon.com/stores/RIVALZ/page/5690A202-6DDB-42BA-A94C-FEBBC08C6841 https://www.amazon.com/stores/RIVALZ/page/5690A202-6DDB-42BA... because my wife found one flavor, slightly expired, at the Amish market and liked it fell through when I tried to buy it straight from the vendor because they charged my credit card with a scammy-looking name neither I nor American Express had ever heard of. Can't get it at Walmart.com, so... (For that matter, Walmart had the first five books of Bocchi the Rock and #7 but not #6) Ever since the time I saw a product listing though which made no sense at all and reported it and got a reply that they don't care if I didn't buy it I started losing trust. Didn't help that 2 day delivery became 5 days suddenly and the fact that I live in a rural area is no excuse because I used to see an AMZN delivery truck driving around in my neighborhood every Sunday. After I quit Prime they started giving me free trials or a week for $2 whenever I bought something and... now I get the 2 day delivery everyone else gets.
- Freak_NL 1y ago
  Why are you writing 'AMZN' instead of 'Amazon'?
  - Benanov 1y ago
    (Not OP) it's a shorthand to use a company's stock symbol instead of the name, especially if you're worked in the financial industry, where everyone knows what you're talking about or can look it up very quickly.
- gs17 1y ago
  > Walmart had the first five books of Bocchi the Rock and #7 but not #6 Wonder if it's similar to what this comment mentions about Amazon (even down to the example being 5 and 7 but no 6): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44354938 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44354938 Maybe Walmart is trying to match Amazon's stock to avoid spending too much to compete with them.
  - PaulHoule 1y ago
steviedotboston 1y ago
Check out the recalls from https://www.cpsc.gov/ https://www.cpsc.gov/ Amazon lists thousands of junk products from China that violate US laws around product safety. Toys containing lead paint, crib bumpers that can suffocate babies, etc. The process seems to be that Amazon just needs to remove the product in violation but it really appears that this is a wholesale attempt on Amazon's part to circumvent legislation. It should not be this trivial for consumers to find products that are potentially dangerous.
- meindnoch 1y ago
  Does Amazon also contact and reimburse the customers who bought the recalled products?
  - mathgeek 1y ago
    Anecdotal but Amazon tends to notify me when something is recalled. They do not, in my experience with battery packs and children's toys, replace it themselves (they defer to manufacturers).
- x0x0 1y ago
  That's because Amazon is, in large part, a front end over Alibaba with exactly zero enforcement of regulation. But they do manage to charge way more!
  - xp84 1y ago
    Indeed! Amazon, it seems, is just a hyperscale fulfillment plugin for Alibaba (etc). It's like a CDN layer for physical goods, moving them to the edge and delivering them at a speed few can even dream of touching due to the cost of having that many POPs.
- conductr 1y ago
  I think if you were to ask them, being a "Marketplace" means they have little responsibility. "Retailers" have much more legal responsibility in terms of vetting manufacturers, supply chain concerns, product safety, etc
gavinsyancey 1y ago
For books, your local independent bookstore can order pretty much any book for you if you walk in and ask (if they don't already have what you want). They won't charge shipping, it'll just come with their next shipment from the publisher and then you can come pick it up. Or if you have to do things online, try https://bookshop.org https://bookshop.org
- cafard 1y ago
  That can very much depend on your local independent store. I have had mixed results over the years.
- monkeyelite 1y ago
  And they will charge me $50 for making an online order. Why are we romanizing middle-men between you and a web form?
  - _DeadFred_ 1y ago
    Bro, just email the bookstore. Going through a middle man designed/optimized to rip both you and the bookstore off (some SAAS bookstore site solution) of course jacks the price up. At this point, if it's online, it's worse/crap/designed to screw you and whoever you are dealing with as much as it can get away with.
    - monkeyelite 1y ago
      > if it's online, it's worse/crap/designed to screw you This doesn’t follow.
  - kbelder 1y ago
    In my experience, gavinsyancey is correct. If the situation arises, you should give it a try. You'll probably be pleasantly surprised.
- account42 1y ago
  Having to physically go to a store just to you can at some point physically go to a store to buy something is quite a large amount of friction compared to pressing a button and having something show up at your door.
canpan 1y ago
The "incompetent competitors" is a big point for me. I prefer to buy from a more trusted local (in Japan) store. But it is so cumbersome! Buying something on Amazon is fast and smooth, and they have a huuge selection. Regarding price, many stores here price fit, so Amazon is not actually cheaper.
- thayne 1y ago
  > and they have a huuge selection That's the big thing for me. I don't live close to a big city, so local selection is pretty limited. For some things there isn't even a local store available.
  - _DeadFred_ 1y ago
    Anymore. For obscure items, all it takes is once from Amazon to kill you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B90_SNNbcoU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B90_SNNbcoU
- rtpg 1y ago
  I was having a conversation earlier today with an acquaitance who bought rubbing alcohol off of Amazon because according to him none of the pharmacies in his city have it. He lives in Seattle. It really feels like people's behaviors have been permanently changed for the worst, even if a "proper" competitor comes in. I no longer have prime shipping, and seeing "shipping: $5" next to anything on Amazon definitely helps me to do at least cursory searches in local stores... would probably be a net benefit to society to outlaw Prime
  - mschuster91 1y ago
    Here in Germany, you used to be able to buy chemicals at pharmacies. Then, the EU plus the usual German compliance-by-the-letter came along... the EU imposed serious controls on chemicals because many can be used to make bombs (e.g. acetone plus hydrogen peroxide yields APEX/TATP) or various illicit drugs. That legislation now not just requires a bullshit amount of paperwork for each transaction but also requires pharmacy staff to pass and renew a certification for dealing with chemicals. No, the actual doctor in pharmaceuticals that one needs to pass to open a pharmacy is not enough. As a result, nearly all pharmacies here dropped the entire lines of making medication on-site and selling chemicals, because only the latter kept the former financially viable. So, your only options left are either: a) buy from Amazon or eBay sellers that outright don't care about the German peculiarities or b) if you manage to qualify, buy from the usual selection of lab supply wholesalers. But something like "start a German NileRed channel", that's completely out of the question. The kind of stuff he buys, no way to get that without a commercial entity, and good luck getting that in place without at least a bachelor's degree in chemistry.
profsummergig 1y ago
I wanted to try out the tee-shirt hustle once. There was a cool design (or at least I thought so) I came up with. Had about 100 of those printed. Went to Amazon to get a seller account: 1) learned that if I had only 1 tee-shirt with a single design to sell, I couldn't get the account. 2) after researching the competition, discovered that many of the tee-shirt designs for sale were: a) clearly in copyright violation (e.g. Disney characters on some mom & pop store. b) their images on their store were just a photoshopped tee-shirt. I.e., not photos of the actual tee-shirt they had for sale. But the design photoshopped on to a photo of a blank tee-shirt. Boggled my mind that Amazon was okay with this.
- riffraff 1y ago
  Copyright violation on t-shirts seems to be the norm, it's not just Amazon. Basically every t-shirt seller out there will allow user-submitted design that infringe on someone's IP. I'm not complaining, cause I love my Mario/Banksy crossover t-shirt, but it's just how it is, Disney & co just don't bother going after them, they're happy to sell you their official™ stuff through other channels.
  - dlcarrier 1y ago
    Copyright law only restricts commercial activity, so if you print a Nintendo character on your shirt, to wear yourself, there's no means for Nintendo to sue you over it. File sharing lawsuits are not over users downloading content, but over users seeding it, which is on by default in most file sharing clients. If you hire someone to print it on the shirt for you, and then distribute the shirt, you would be liable for copyright infringement, not the printer, because the printer isn't supplying the artwork, you are. It's no different than placing phone calls to perform an illegal activity. The phone provider isn't guilty, but you are. If you order a custom shirt, and provide unlicensed copyrighted artwork, but don't distribute it, then no one is in a position to get in trouble.
    - ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
      I once asked a laptop skin company to print a design that included the logo of the company I worked for, and they refused, unless I also provided a release from our Legal Department (which they would never do, so I gave it up). So I assume that a lot of self-publishing type companies may refuse to do copyrighted stuff, even for one-off jobs.
mathieuh 1y ago
Amazon also has their own book printing service that they sell books from under several marques, I assume to make it more difficult to tell it’s from them. The books are very low quality with poor typesetting that makes them unpleasant to read.
sharkjacobs 1y ago
It doesn't hurt that Amazon can leverage economies of scale which are orders of magnitude greater than their utterly deficient competitors
- zombot 1y ago
  In these cases, it does hurt.
- account42 1y ago
  They only got to those scales by offering a better service than the previous entrenched competition.
thaumasiotes 1y ago
> I also tried to move all my books purchasing to B&N and again, surprisingly, they haven’t learned any real lesson in past 25 years. Their website is clunky, they charge $7 delivery fee, they can’t even deliver to my nearest their own shop for free! I went to barnesandnoble.com to check this out. There's a banner at the top of the page: > Uh-oh, it looks like your Internet Explorer is out of date. > For a better shopping experience, please upgrade now. The words "upgrade now" link to http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/internet-explorer/download-ie/ http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/internet-explorer/downloa... . It does look like you're right that they won't ship books to your local B&N: > Other reasons that an item may not be available for Buy Online, Pick Up in Store include: > The item is out of stock in your selected store This is very odd, because they will do that if you go into the store and order from there.
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speeder 1y ago
I used to buy a certain book series on fictionwise, because it was the only site selling those books in my country. B&N bought Fictionwise, and first thing they did was determine that you need to be physically inside USA to download stuff. Now only way for me to get those books is pirated. :( Maybe I should just download them pirated and donate the price of the books directly to the author account or something. I really don't understand what is the problem of B&N or how they still exist, they are literally anti-business.
- dylan604 1y ago
  How did they determine if you were physically within the US? How would using a VPN not provide the same ability?
  - fkyoureadthedoc 1y ago
    Not that it's the case for B&N, but many sites block VPN. Reddit for example.
    - account42 1y ago
      There are always options that do work, some shadier than others though.
  - account42 1y ago
    Does it matter? You can't expect people to set up a VPN just so they can give you money.
busyant 1y ago
> I tried to move my purchases to Walmart Walmart does (or at least did) something similar. * About 7 years ago, I purchased a toy drone online from Walmart for one of my sons for Christmas. * I purchased it before Thanksgiving because the Walmart website urged me to purchase in time for Christmas delivery. * My son opened the gift on Christmas and the drone was broken (out of the box). * I tried to return the drone to a brick-and-mortar Walmart store and they told me that they couldn't issue a refund because I bought it on their website, but it was through a 3rd party seller. I had to take it up with the 3rd party. * Remember the part where I said I bought the drone before Thanksgiving?? Well, I contacted the 3rd party and was told they had a strict 30 day return policy and they could not issue a refund. It was a cheap gift, but the whole ordeal bothers me to this day.
- SoftTalker 1y ago
  Yes I buy household stuff on Walmart's website quite often, but only stuff sold and shipped by Walmart. They have a lot of third party listings on the site also, which many people may not realize, or if they do, they don't understand that Walmart only facilitates the transaction for these, you cannot do returns or get support at a Walmart store.
  - mminer237 1y ago
    Walmart does accept returns for third-party products in-store but only for the 30 days after their delivery date.
  - capitainenemo 1y ago
    Yeah, I always check the Sold by Walmart box, and I need a good reason to go outside that list. It's just just about returns. Walmart does supply chain quality control that does not seem to happen as reliably on the 3rd party listings. (edited because I'm sure some 3rd party sellers are legit. target for example offers a selectable but short list of sellers, I imagine you could check them for reputation) This isn't just Walmart though. Most non-Amazon websites have a similar option. Lowes, Target, NewEgg...
pulisse 1y ago
> A lot of books, even small scale ones, are also fake and very low quality. My sister works in manga and anime publishing and this is an existential threat to her company. Some of the issues they're grappling with: 1. For some of their titles, the genuine item doesn't even appear among search results on Amazon—only the counterfeits do. 2. The quality issues with the counterfeits can result in losing all future business from a customer. For example, download codes will be missing or non-functional. Irrational as it is, customers blame the publisher when this happens and stop buying further titles from them. 3. Amazon seems to be using some slapdash ML to determine how many of each title to order. They'll purchase 10k of vols. 5 and 7 of a series and only 1k of vol. 6. Guess how many of that 10k of vol. 7 end up selling when that happens? Amazon is, needless to say, non-responsive to their concerns.
- gs17 1y ago
  > They'll purchase 10k of vols. 5 and 7 of a series and only 1k of vol. 6. Guess how many of that 10k of vol. 7 end up selling when that happens? I've noticed that too in manga. It's amazing they screw it up so bad, given their origin as a book seller.
- hinkley 1y ago
  My local library had books 1-3 and 5-6 of a series I was reading by an author who I own all of her later books. I even tried to find a copy at the local used shop, thinking I would read it and then donate it, but due to her rising star they had printed new editions in a completely different style, and size. I ended up pirating a copy of that book instead. Then bought the audio book for a book I already owned as penance. I suspect when there are gaps that either the counterfeiters win or nobody wins.
- mcv 1y ago
  What I'd like to know is: has anyone ever sued Amazon for this? There seems to be plenty of evidence for a massive class action suit. They are knowingly and intentionally screwing sellers and customers alike.
dfxm12 1y ago
The lesson they have learned is that people who care, can tell the difference and shop with them are such a small minority that it isn't worth it to their bottom line to address this. The government doesn't seem to care either. The market isn't going to fix this. Maybe you can round up enough people for a common cause as discussed in the article, but that doesn't scale. Take notice that for all its talk about America first policy & general sinophobia, the current admin in Washington hasn't done anything about this either. They don't care about American small businesses or consumers. They only care about people like Jeff Bezos, the Waltons, etc.
- coredog64 1y ago
  The other half of this is that the degraded marketplace rewards ad spending, and ad spending is now a significant amount of revenue for Amazon (IIRC, it's behind AWS but doesn't need nearly as many people)
ps 1y ago
My client sells on Amazon in Europe and is constantly harassed for presumed IP infringement, safety issues etc. usually due to somebody else either incorrectly renaming item or item name containing some trigger like "life", "battery" or some other brand's name. I always wonder how are examples like yours possible there at all.
- MobiusHorizons 1y ago
  Sheer volume mostly. Lots of scammy companies create new accounts to sell products until someone complains, then the abandon the account and start a new one. Basically the same as most spam operations
skeeter2020 1y ago
In Canada (and I assume everywhere) it's a race to the bottom. Both WalMart and BestBuy are dominated by 3rd party products in their online stores, and you never know what you will get. Some are perfectly fine and sell legit products; others as bad as Amazon.I've found books from Indigo are pretty close to Amazon in selection, price and delivery but that's such as small part of what people buy online now.
threetonesun 1y ago
Bookshop.org if you want your books local local. Best Buy for electronics (or B&H if it's near you). General home goods I've gone back to just using the grocery store. Amazon just outright can't be trusted as a marketplace any more.
kulahan 1y ago
I have no clue if it’s still true, but Wal-Mart back in the day used to go to the manufacturers of some products and request that same product at a lower price. The idea was “get it to us at that cost, no matter what you have to do” - so you would see name brand products meant to be very similar to ones you would see, but with inferior build quality, and the only distinguishing mark is that it has a different product ID from the manufacturer. Point being: it doesn’t matter if Walmart does this, because it’s already an empty promise from them, too. Just stop shopping at these behemoths.
- bee_rider 1y ago
  That is pretty sketchy behavior. But… it still doesn’t seem quite as bad as letting some third party steal an established listing. At least users will correctly blame some well-known brand for their shoddy craftsmanship.
- pimlottc 1y ago
  Fast Company did a famous article about this back in 2003, with the example of a gallon jar of pickles priced at $2.97: https://www.fastcompany.com/47593/wal-mart-you-dont-know-2 https://www.fastcompany.com/47593/wal-mart-you-dont-know-2 https://archive.is/e25nB https://archive.is/e25nB
  - kulahan 1y ago
    This was a great read, but one part in particular made me laugh a bit: >Wal-Mart is not just the world’s largest retailer. It’s the world’s largest company–bigger than ExxonMobil, General Motors, and General Electric. The scale can be hard to absorb. Wal-Mart sold $244.5 billion worth of goods last year. It sells in three months what number-two retailer Home Depot sells in a year. Ah, the innocence of 2003.
hinkley 1y ago
Why Sears Roebuck missed the boat on this I will never understand. There could have been a call to return to their past by embracing the future the moment Amazon proved it was default alive. What the fuck, guys.
cyral 1y ago
I also noticed lots of dubious companies selling hot tub/pool chemicals. I assume there is a more stringent approval process for this as legitimate companies sell them, but knockoffs use accents like "Chlóriñē" to get around whatever filter Amazon has.
- xp84 1y ago
  Seeing evasions like that are a really strong 'code smell' to me that the 'regulator' in question is in on the scam. Imagine if you were standing in front of a narcotics officer on the street, and you say to your friend "Hey, I have some Cane-Coke available. wink. Want to buy it?" He's standing right there, and doesn't bat an eye. That's Amazon. They care about following laws, regulations, etc. exactly enough to have plausible deniability and no further. Oh gee, Sarge, that guy was speaking in code and I had no idea he was selling drugs. If they cared, they'd ban sellers immediately for evading a filter, and raise barriers to entry until it was painful to start a new account. Like requiring every seller to have a US entity with a real business license and an identity-verified named agent, and ban the agent and anyone else they represent for violations. This is just one quick idea but by no means the only way. But you can bet Amazon would never even try to police their marketplace better because they'd rather just skim their cut of both legitimate and fraudulent or illegal activity.
  - account42 1y ago
    The regulator in on (or at least indifferent to) the scam also includes the government here though. The whole market place excuse is incredibly weak and even if it currently would hold up then the legislative can fix that. After all, no buyer ever says they bought something from OMEJINE or whatever fake names Amazon shows you - they say they bought something on Amazon.
Beijinger 1y ago
Maybe we should do a curated shopping portal of US based mom & pop shops? I actually made pretty good experiences with eBay.
account42 1y ago
Yes it's really sad how with how much Amazon have been getting shittier they are still the best around. Refunds is another thing that is almost always a pain with other stores but Amazon makes it smooth (but sadly also more and more necessary). Another pain point is shipping costs. With Amazon I can just filter for free shipping with whatever the current minimum-purchase price for that is whereas elsewhere I am too often surprised by unreasonably high shipping charges designed to make the purchase price look better on comparison sites.

kevin_thibedeau 1y ago

Walmart.com is a rebranded Jet.com. They've only owned it for 9 years.

bmitc 1y ago
And they have the same problems because they allow third party sellers. So far, Target seems it hasn't gone done this rode yet.
- Rebelgecko 1y ago
  As long as they don't commingle inventory it's relatively easy to avoid (not sure if that's the case or not, but seems like most of the 3rd party sellers do their own shipping) FWIW my main annoyance with Walmarts website is that it's not clear if you package is coming via shipping service like FedEx, who has access to my apartment complex, or just some dude in his car who needs to call me while I'm at work to be buzzed in
  - Spooky23 1y ago
    Walmart is Walmart. They hire the cheapest people possible and treat them like shit. I get stuff from Walmart all of the time from their delivery drivers. The catch: I’ve never ordered anything from Walmart.
- colejohnson66 1y ago
  Target does allow third-party sellers on Target.com (and the app), but they allow in-store returns on anything — even third-party items. When I worked as a receiver, there were random items to process out that would normally/likely be salvage, but went to the returns processing center because they were from online orders. There also seems to be curation.
ungreased0675 1y ago
It’s surprising they’re not trying to take Amazon market share by eliminating scammy third party vendors and counterfeit products. I think people would be interested in an Amazon like service without the dropshipped and fake junk.
- silisili 1y ago
  In many ways it's actually worse. I don't remember the item now, but something I'd bought semi regularly from Walmart. It was boosted in my search/you may like results, which makes sense. Except the product was 10x the price, and not sold by Walmart. There's no clear indication of that until you actually click into it, though. So you can add it to your cart and buy it easily without knowing any of that, by design I guess. It seems 3rd party sellers know how it works, and probably make a ton of money sniping out of stock items. I almost fell for it as I rarely scrutinize prices, I can't imagine how many people go through with it not knowing any better.
  - SoftTalker 1y ago
    You can filter searches so you only see stuff sold and shipped by Walmart but it does seem that the filters reset frequently/randomly so you always need to double check.
    - silisili 1y ago
      Most of my use is actually local pickup or delivery, so I often use the 'In Store' filter often. It lasts only as long as that session, unfortunately.
- aydyn 1y ago
  It's not surprising at all. Keep in mind that Walmart is a multi-billion dollar business, so its certain they did an analysis on this. Convenience > Quality as dictated by the Median Consumer.
- slumberlust 1y ago
  They did the exact opposite and immediately copied the marketplace schema.

jekwoooooe 1y ago

I would barely trust Amazon for authentic shampoo never mind vitamins. Are people so desperate to save single dollars they gamble with their health?

lmm 1y ago
It's not about being cheaper, it's about convenience. And realistically what's the more trustworthy alternative? Even the reputable high street shops sell homeopathy and bags of random herbs that might be the thing on the label, never mind picking a no-name online store.
- rincebrain 1y ago
  I think part of the problem is also that how prevalent it is varies wildly by where you are, and therefore which Amazon distribution centers you're hitting. To elaborate - in NYC, I usually avoid ordering from Amazon for anything where it's cheap or something health-related, but even when I've sometimes given up finding it easily elsewhere and bought it there, it's not been, as far as I could tell, a counterfeit item. That's not to say I can easily prove that or that I'm encouraging people to order from there, but I personally haven't encountered boxes full of things other than the intended item, or the like, and I would suspect the problem's prevalence varies heavily with volume (and thus, turnover) and location.
  - Projectiboga 1y ago
    The issue w AMZ is the sku mixing. Two or more different batches of stuff get mixed. A lot of the bad stuff are rejects or seconds that get the same packaging, so w Amz it is always a small chance.
    - close04 1y ago
      Even without the mixing Amazon will occasionally have a "fire sale" on things sold by themselves or 3rd party stores and every time this happens the recent reviews are that the product was expired, or used, or damaged, etc. Even for products where returns aren't accepted which just adds insult to injury. So it's just dumping of worthless stock. For example this seems to be the case with air friers (only because I had my eye on this) every Prime Day, they all get flooded with dozens of reviews that the product was damaged or used. I don't trust Amazon offers because of this. So I either just buy the super cheap, disposable stuff where a trip to a shop isn't worth it, or things that have guaranteed free returns. Sometimes I'd rather order online because I have a guaranteed window to test and return if it's not what I want. For purchases in person the law here doesn't guarantee a return window for products that work but just aren't what I thought they'd be. Or I have to argue endlessly at the store for them to take it back.

fortran77 1y ago

Try Target.com

PaulHoule 1y ago

AMZN is my last choice for buying anything. An attempt to buy this stuff https://www.amazon.com/stores/RIVALZ/page/5690A202-6DDB-42BA-A94C-FEBBC08C6841 https://www.amazon.com/stores/RIVALZ/page/5690A202-6DDB-42BA... because my wife found one flavor, slightly expired, at the Amish market and liked it fell through when I tried to buy it straight from the vendor because they charged my credit card with a scammy-looking name neither I nor American Express had ever heard of. Can't get it at Walmart.com, so... (For that matter, Walmart had the first five books of Bocchi the Rock and #7 but not #6) Ever since the time I saw a product listing though which made no sense at all and reported it and got a reply that they don't care if I didn't buy it I started losing trust. Didn't help that 2 day delivery became 5 days suddenly and the fact that I live in a rural area is no excuse because I used to see an AMZN delivery truck driving around in my neighborhood every Sunday. After I quit Prime they started giving me free trials or a week for $2 whenever I bought something and... now I get the 2 day delivery everyone else gets.

Freak_NL 1y ago
Why are you writing 'AMZN' instead of 'Amazon'?
- Benanov 1y ago
  (Not OP) it's a shorthand to use a company's stock symbol instead of the name, especially if you're worked in the financial industry, where everyone knows what you're talking about or can look it up very quickly.
gs17 1y ago
> Walmart had the first five books of Bocchi the Rock and #7 but not #6 Wonder if it's similar to what this comment mentions about Amazon (even down to the example being 5 and 7 but no 6): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44354938 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44354938 Maybe Walmart is trying to match Amazon's stock to avoid spending too much to compete with them.
- PaulHoule 1y ago

steviedotboston 1y ago

Check out the recalls from https://www.cpsc.gov/ https://www.cpsc.gov/ Amazon lists thousands of junk products from China that violate US laws around product safety. Toys containing lead paint, crib bumpers that can suffocate babies, etc. The process seems to be that Amazon just needs to remove the product in violation but it really appears that this is a wholesale attempt on Amazon's part to circumvent legislation. It should not be this trivial for consumers to find products that are potentially dangerous.

meindnoch 1y ago
Does Amazon also contact and reimburse the customers who bought the recalled products?
- mathgeek 1y ago
  Anecdotal but Amazon tends to notify me when something is recalled. They do not, in my experience with battery packs and children's toys, replace it themselves (they defer to manufacturers).
x0x0 1y ago
That's because Amazon is, in large part, a front end over Alibaba with exactly zero enforcement of regulation. But they do manage to charge way more!
- xp84 1y ago
  Indeed! Amazon, it seems, is just a hyperscale fulfillment plugin for Alibaba (etc). It's like a CDN layer for physical goods, moving them to the edge and delivering them at a speed few can even dream of touching due to the cost of having that many POPs.
conductr 1y ago
I think if you were to ask them, being a "Marketplace" means they have little responsibility. "Retailers" have much more legal responsibility in terms of vetting manufacturers, supply chain concerns, product safety, etc

gavinsyancey 1y ago

For books, your local independent bookstore can order pretty much any book for you if you walk in and ask (if they don't already have what you want). They won't charge shipping, it'll just come with their next shipment from the publisher and then you can come pick it up. Or if you have to do things online, try https://bookshop.org https://bookshop.org

cafard 1y ago
That can very much depend on your local independent store. I have had mixed results over the years.
monkeyelite 1y ago
And they will charge me $50 for making an online order. Why are we romanizing middle-men between you and a web form?
- _DeadFred_ 1y ago
  Bro, just email the bookstore. Going through a middle man designed/optimized to rip both you and the bookstore off (some SAAS bookstore site solution) of course jacks the price up. At this point, if it's online, it's worse/crap/designed to screw you and whoever you are dealing with as much as it can get away with.
  - monkeyelite 1y ago
    > if it's online, it's worse/crap/designed to screw you This doesn’t follow.
- kbelder 1y ago
  In my experience, gavinsyancey is correct. If the situation arises, you should give it a try. You'll probably be pleasantly surprised.
account42 1y ago
Having to physically go to a store just to you can at some point physically go to a store to buy something is quite a large amount of friction compared to pressing a button and having something show up at your door.

canpan 1y ago

The "incompetent competitors" is a big point for me. I prefer to buy from a more trusted local (in Japan) store. But it is so cumbersome! Buying something on Amazon is fast and smooth, and they have a huuge selection. Regarding price, many stores here price fit, so Amazon is not actually cheaper.

thayne 1y ago
> and they have a huuge selection That's the big thing for me. I don't live close to a big city, so local selection is pretty limited. For some things there isn't even a local store available.
- _DeadFred_ 1y ago
  Anymore. For obscure items, all it takes is once from Amazon to kill you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B90_SNNbcoU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B90_SNNbcoU
rtpg 1y ago
I was having a conversation earlier today with an acquaitance who bought rubbing alcohol off of Amazon because according to him none of the pharmacies in his city have it. He lives in Seattle. It really feels like people's behaviors have been permanently changed for the worst, even if a "proper" competitor comes in. I no longer have prime shipping, and seeing "shipping: $5" next to anything on Amazon definitely helps me to do at least cursory searches in local stores... would probably be a net benefit to society to outlaw Prime
- mschuster91 1y ago
  Here in Germany, you used to be able to buy chemicals at pharmacies. Then, the EU plus the usual German compliance-by-the-letter came along... the EU imposed serious controls on chemicals because many can be used to make bombs (e.g. acetone plus hydrogen peroxide yields APEX/TATP) or various illicit drugs. That legislation now not just requires a bullshit amount of paperwork for each transaction but also requires pharmacy staff to pass and renew a certification for dealing with chemicals. No, the actual doctor in pharmaceuticals that one needs to pass to open a pharmacy is not enough. As a result, nearly all pharmacies here dropped the entire lines of making medication on-site and selling chemicals, because only the latter kept the former financially viable. So, your only options left are either: a) buy from Amazon or eBay sellers that outright don't care about the German peculiarities or b) if you manage to qualify, buy from the usual selection of lab supply wholesalers. But something like "start a German NileRed channel", that's completely out of the question. The kind of stuff he buys, no way to get that without a commercial entity, and good luck getting that in place without at least a bachelor's degree in chemistry.

profsummergig 1y ago

I wanted to try out the tee-shirt hustle once. There was a cool design (or at least I thought so) I came up with. Had about 100 of those printed. Went to Amazon to get a seller account: 1) learned that if I had only 1 tee-shirt with a single design to sell, I couldn't get the account. 2) after researching the competition, discovered that many of the tee-shirt designs for sale were: a) clearly in copyright violation (e.g. Disney characters on some mom & pop store. b) their images on their store were just a photoshopped tee-shirt. I.e., not photos of the actual tee-shirt they had for sale. But the design photoshopped on to a photo of a blank tee-shirt. Boggled my mind that Amazon was okay with this.

riffraff 1y ago
Copyright violation on t-shirts seems to be the norm, it's not just Amazon. Basically every t-shirt seller out there will allow user-submitted design that infringe on someone's IP. I'm not complaining, cause I love my Mario/Banksy crossover t-shirt, but it's just how it is, Disney & co just don't bother going after them, they're happy to sell you their official™ stuff through other channels.
- dlcarrier 1y ago
  Copyright law only restricts commercial activity, so if you print a Nintendo character on your shirt, to wear yourself, there's no means for Nintendo to sue you over it. File sharing lawsuits are not over users downloading content, but over users seeding it, which is on by default in most file sharing clients. If you hire someone to print it on the shirt for you, and then distribute the shirt, you would be liable for copyright infringement, not the printer, because the printer isn't supplying the artwork, you are. It's no different than placing phone calls to perform an illegal activity. The phone provider isn't guilty, but you are. If you order a custom shirt, and provide unlicensed copyrighted artwork, but don't distribute it, then no one is in a position to get in trouble.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 1y ago
    I once asked a laptop skin company to print a design that included the logo of the company I worked for, and they refused, unless I also provided a release from our Legal Department (which they would never do, so I gave it up). So I assume that a lot of self-publishing type companies may refuse to do copyrighted stuff, even for one-off jobs.

mathieuh 1y ago

Amazon also has their own book printing service that they sell books from under several marques, I assume to make it more difficult to tell it’s from them. The books are very low quality with poor typesetting that makes them unpleasant to read.

sharkjacobs 1y ago

It doesn't hurt that Amazon can leverage economies of scale which are orders of magnitude greater than their utterly deficient competitors

zombot 1y ago
In these cases, it does hurt.
account42 1y ago
They only got to those scales by offering a better service than the previous entrenched competition.

thaumasiotes 1y ago

> I also tried to move all my books purchasing to B&N and again, surprisingly, they haven’t learned any real lesson in past 25 years. Their website is clunky, they charge $7 delivery fee, they can’t even deliver to my nearest their own shop for free! I went to barnesandnoble.com to check this out. There's a banner at the top of the page: > Uh-oh, it looks like your Internet Explorer is out of date. > For a better shopping experience, please upgrade now. The words "upgrade now" link to http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/internet-explorer/download-ie/ http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/internet-explorer/downloa... . It does look like you're right that they won't ship books to your local B&N: > Other reasons that an item may not be available for Buy Online, Pick Up in Store include: > The item is out of stock in your selected store This is very odd, because they will do that if you go into the store and order from there.

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speeder 1y ago

I used to buy a certain book series on fictionwise, because it was the only site selling those books in my country. B&N bought Fictionwise, and first thing they did was determine that you need to be physically inside USA to download stuff. Now only way for me to get those books is pirated. :( Maybe I should just download them pirated and donate the price of the books directly to the author account or something. I really don't understand what is the problem of B&N or how they still exist, they are literally anti-business.

dylan604 1y ago
How did they determine if you were physically within the US? How would using a VPN not provide the same ability?
- fkyoureadthedoc 1y ago
  Not that it's the case for B&N, but many sites block VPN. Reddit for example.
  - account42 1y ago
    There are always options that do work, some shadier than others though.
- account42 1y ago
  Does it matter? You can't expect people to set up a VPN just so they can give you money.

busyant 1y ago

> I tried to move my purchases to Walmart Walmart does (or at least did) something similar. * About 7 years ago, I purchased a toy drone online from Walmart for one of my sons for Christmas. * I purchased it before Thanksgiving because the Walmart website urged me to purchase in time for Christmas delivery. * My son opened the gift on Christmas and the drone was broken (out of the box). * I tried to return the drone to a brick-and-mortar Walmart store and they told me that they couldn't issue a refund because I bought it on their website, but it was through a 3rd party seller. I had to take it up with the 3rd party. * Remember the part where I said I bought the drone before Thanksgiving?? Well, I contacted the 3rd party and was told they had a strict 30 day return policy and they could not issue a refund. It was a cheap gift, but the whole ordeal bothers me to this day.

SoftTalker 1y ago
Yes I buy household stuff on Walmart's website quite often, but only stuff sold and shipped by Walmart. They have a lot of third party listings on the site also, which many people may not realize, or if they do, they don't understand that Walmart only facilitates the transaction for these, you cannot do returns or get support at a Walmart store.
- mminer237 1y ago
  Walmart does accept returns for third-party products in-store but only for the 30 days after their delivery date.
- capitainenemo 1y ago
  Yeah, I always check the Sold by Walmart box, and I need a good reason to go outside that list. It's just just about returns. Walmart does supply chain quality control that does not seem to happen as reliably on the 3rd party listings. (edited because I'm sure some 3rd party sellers are legit. target for example offers a selectable but short list of sellers, I imagine you could check them for reputation) This isn't just Walmart though. Most non-Amazon websites have a similar option. Lowes, Target, NewEgg...

pulisse 1y ago

> A lot of books, even small scale ones, are also fake and very low quality. My sister works in manga and anime publishing and this is an existential threat to her company. Some of the issues they're grappling with: 1. For some of their titles, the genuine item doesn't even appear among search results on Amazon—only the counterfeits do. 2. The quality issues with the counterfeits can result in losing all future business from a customer. For example, download codes will be missing or non-functional. Irrational as it is, customers blame the publisher when this happens and stop buying further titles from them. 3. Amazon seems to be using some slapdash ML to determine how many of each title to order. They'll purchase 10k of vols. 5 and 7 of a series and only 1k of vol. 6. Guess how many of that 10k of vol. 7 end up selling when that happens? Amazon is, needless to say, non-responsive to their concerns.

gs17 1y ago
> They'll purchase 10k of vols. 5 and 7 of a series and only 1k of vol. 6. Guess how many of that 10k of vol. 7 end up selling when that happens? I've noticed that too in manga. It's amazing they screw it up so bad, given their origin as a book seller.
hinkley 1y ago
My local library had books 1-3 and 5-6 of a series I was reading by an author who I own all of her later books. I even tried to find a copy at the local used shop, thinking I would read it and then donate it, but due to her rising star they had printed new editions in a completely different style, and size. I ended up pirating a copy of that book instead. Then bought the audio book for a book I already owned as penance. I suspect when there are gaps that either the counterfeiters win or nobody wins.
mcv 1y ago
What I'd like to know is: has anyone ever sued Amazon for this? There seems to be plenty of evidence for a massive class action suit. They are knowingly and intentionally screwing sellers and customers alike.

dfxm12 1y ago

The lesson they have learned is that people who care, can tell the difference and shop with them are such a small minority that it isn't worth it to their bottom line to address this. The government doesn't seem to care either. The market isn't going to fix this. Maybe you can round up enough people for a common cause as discussed in the article, but that doesn't scale. Take notice that for all its talk about America first policy & general sinophobia, the current admin in Washington hasn't done anything about this either. They don't care about American small businesses or consumers. They only care about people like Jeff Bezos, the Waltons, etc.

coredog64 1y ago
The other half of this is that the degraded marketplace rewards ad spending, and ad spending is now a significant amount of revenue for Amazon (IIRC, it's behind AWS but doesn't need nearly as many people)

ps 1y ago

My client sells on Amazon in Europe and is constantly harassed for presumed IP infringement, safety issues etc. usually due to somebody else either incorrectly renaming item or item name containing some trigger like "life", "battery" or some other brand's name. I always wonder how are examples like yours possible there at all.

MobiusHorizons 1y ago
Sheer volume mostly. Lots of scammy companies create new accounts to sell products until someone complains, then the abandon the account and start a new one. Basically the same as most spam operations

skeeter2020 1y ago

In Canada (and I assume everywhere) it's a race to the bottom. Both WalMart and BestBuy are dominated by 3rd party products in their online stores, and you never know what you will get. Some are perfectly fine and sell legit products; others as bad as Amazon.I've found books from Indigo are pretty close to Amazon in selection, price and delivery but that's such as small part of what people buy online now.

threetonesun 1y ago

Bookshop.org if you want your books local local. Best Buy for electronics (or B&H if it's near you). General home goods I've gone back to just using the grocery store. Amazon just outright can't be trusted as a marketplace any more.

kulahan 1y ago

I have no clue if it’s still true, but Wal-Mart back in the day used to go to the manufacturers of some products and request that same product at a lower price. The idea was “get it to us at that cost, no matter what you have to do” - so you would see name brand products meant to be very similar to ones you would see, but with inferior build quality, and the only distinguishing mark is that it has a different product ID from the manufacturer. Point being: it doesn’t matter if Walmart does this, because it’s already an empty promise from them, too. Just stop shopping at these behemoths.

bee_rider 1y ago
That is pretty sketchy behavior. But… it still doesn’t seem quite as bad as letting some third party steal an established listing. At least users will correctly blame some well-known brand for their shoddy craftsmanship.
pimlottc 1y ago
Fast Company did a famous article about this back in 2003, with the example of a gallon jar of pickles priced at $2.97: https://www.fastcompany.com/47593/wal-mart-you-dont-know-2 https://www.fastcompany.com/47593/wal-mart-you-dont-know-2 https://archive.is/e25nB https://archive.is/e25nB
- kulahan 1y ago
  This was a great read, but one part in particular made me laugh a bit: >Wal-Mart is not just the world’s largest retailer. It’s the world’s largest company–bigger than ExxonMobil, General Motors, and General Electric. The scale can be hard to absorb. Wal-Mart sold $244.5 billion worth of goods last year. It sells in three months what number-two retailer Home Depot sells in a year. Ah, the innocence of 2003.

hinkley 1y ago

Why Sears Roebuck missed the boat on this I will never understand. There could have been a call to return to their past by embracing the future the moment Amazon proved it was default alive. What the fuck, guys.

cyral 1y ago

I also noticed lots of dubious companies selling hot tub/pool chemicals. I assume there is a more stringent approval process for this as legitimate companies sell them, but knockoffs use accents like "Chlóriñē" to get around whatever filter Amazon has.

xp84 1y ago
Seeing evasions like that are a really strong 'code smell' to me that the 'regulator' in question is in on the scam. Imagine if you were standing in front of a narcotics officer on the street, and you say to your friend "Hey, I have some Cane-Coke available. wink. Want to buy it?" He's standing right there, and doesn't bat an eye. That's Amazon. They care about following laws, regulations, etc. exactly enough to have plausible deniability and no further. Oh gee, Sarge, that guy was speaking in code and I had no idea he was selling drugs. If they cared, they'd ban sellers immediately for evading a filter, and raise barriers to entry until it was painful to start a new account. Like requiring every seller to have a US entity with a real business license and an identity-verified named agent, and ban the agent and anyone else they represent for violations. This is just one quick idea but by no means the only way. But you can bet Amazon would never even try to police their marketplace better because they'd rather just skim their cut of both legitimate and fraudulent or illegal activity.
- account42 1y ago
  The regulator in on (or at least indifferent to) the scam also includes the government here though. The whole market place excuse is incredibly weak and even if it currently would hold up then the legislative can fix that. After all, no buyer ever says they bought something from OMEJINE or whatever fake names Amazon shows you - they say they bought something on Amazon.

Beijinger 1y ago

Maybe we should do a curated shopping portal of US based mom & pop shops? I actually made pretty good experiences with eBay.

account42 1y ago

Yes it's really sad how with how much Amazon have been getting shittier they are still the best around. Refunds is another thing that is almost always a pain with other stores but Amazon makes it smooth (but sadly also more and more necessary). Another pain point is shipping costs. With Amazon I can just filter for free shipping with whatever the current minimum-purchase price for that is whereas elsewhere I am too often surprised by unreasonably high shipping charges designed to make the purchase price look better on comparison sites.