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This is a phenomenal application of how fine-based bounties can be used to rapidly improve compliance with the law. Incredible work. I would absolutely use this
by hiAndrewQuinn 1y ago
This is a phenomenal application of how fine-based bounties can be used to rapidly improve compliance with the law. Incredible work. I would absolutely use this if I lived in NYC; I'll recommend it to my friends there.
- gametorch 1y ago[flagged]
- ffsm8 1y agoI wish it was was more common around the world. Not just with parking though, but everything in the context of cars. Like letting the police install a permanent speed trap on your property or even pay for the privilege of them doing so. I'd bet that'd curb a lot of speeding in short order
- hiAndrewQuinn 1y agoThere's no need for violence. In fact, the capital outlay would be inefficient. If you want to curb speeding, the solution looks much the same: Pay reporters some portion of the fines collected from the speeder. You will very quickly see a cottage industry of Internet connected dashcams and on-board AI solutions spring up, because it's practically free money if you drive safely yourself for long enough. Pretty soon nobody will be speeding, simply because you never know who or what is watching. This is a set of economic-legal policies I've been writing about here and there for a long time. It's great stuff.
- gametorch 1y ago[flagged]
- hiAndrewQuinn 1y agoYou have it backwards. A perfect detection rate for crime makes it much more important that we define conservatively what we even consider to be a crime in the first place, and then what kind of punishment we levy upon it. You also have it backwards because it already reliably makes society better for you. Take the case of Biogen employee Michael Bawduniak, who spent seven years documenting covert payments that steered doctors toward Biogen’s multiple‑sclerosis drugs illegally. When the United States Department of Justice settled the case for $900 million in 2022, Bawduniak received roughly $266 million, or about 30% of the federal proceeds, under the False Claims Act. It's a very similar mechanism, and anyone you may know who suffers from multiple sclerosis has likely had their treatment options materially improved thanks to Bawduniak's actions. But those kinds of actions only happen when you have the right mechanisms in place, to reward people who do the right thing.
- gametorch 1y ago[flagged]
- bcyn 1y agoWhy? How do you draw the line between people who deserve to be "surveilled" (if you can even call it that in this case...) vs. people who don't? You are entitled to your opinion of course but it just seems extremely arbitrary.
- gametorch 1y agoI don't have a good, rational answer. I think the idea is vaguely that the upper-upper class statistically must've done something wrong or have the power to cause extreme harm, therefore it's okay to snitch on them but not your regular Joe. I'm just espousing the standard American middle class views about freedom here. Not trying to argue they are sound or rational.
- hiAndrewQuinn 1y agoWell, I disagree, but I pick my battles carefully and would never risk turning someone against the False Claims Act to win such a small victory. Point conceded.
- raxxorraxor 1y agoThat is entirely different type of crime. Do you let an AI write your comments?
- hiAndrewQuinn 1y agoMy point is actually that the type of crime doesn't matter. If it's good enough to break up vast financial conspiracy networks, it's probably good enough for your bog standard aggravated assault cases or what have you, where people are a lot less skilled at avoiding detection.
- freejazz 1y ago
- renewiltord 1y agoModern people are so risk averse. Back in the day we would rob trains. These days society is the equivalent of a HOA - freedom is fast forgotten and trains go mostly unmolested except through that one bastion of liberty: Los Angeles. Society is full of tattletales and stool pigeons. A criminal society is a free society. Order is antithetical to expression.
- ffsm8 1y agoUh, did someone advocate for violence?
- hiAndrewQuinn 1y agoA speed trap is a kind of violence, yes. Have you ever hit one of those things at high speed before? Ouch. EDIT: I've been away from the States for too long. I was indeed thinking about speed bumps, not traps. Traps are cameras, and they therefore get a thumbs up from me in the beautiful bounties-on-everything-we-care-about future.
- ffsm8 1y agoa speed trap is a device that measures the speed of cars that drive by it. It's usually on the sidewalk or (as I proposed here) in a property adjacent to the street. You're not supposed to hit them. Are you talking about speed bumps?
- hiAndrewQuinn 1y agoI am! Mea maxima culpa. Yes, I agree with you.
- moooo99 1y agoEven ignoring that misunderstanding, speed bumps can be absolutely great. They can‘t be installed everywhere since they also significantly slow down emergency services, but combine speedbumps and a crosswalk and you get a raised crosswalk, which is a great measure to increase pedestrian safety.
- raxxorraxor 1y agoPeasant bounty hunting really concludes the picture of a nation slowly failing under applause and cheers.
- ffsm8 1y agoPhrased like that, it's indeed problematic. But you should keep in mind that speeding is 1. A safety hazard 2. Causes high noise pollution 3. Measurably increases air pollution Under these circumstances I feel like a citizen driven enforcement for the law is not quite bad as you are portraying it. I would even call it apploudable, because they increase the quantity of life for everyone in their neighborhood.
- potato3732842 1y agoThe problem here is the anonymity for the tipster. Like if you can't defend your actions by putting your name to them are they actions worth taking? The guy who reports one person for driving 100mph over the limit can and ought to sleep soundly knowing society more or less agrees with his actions. The guy who reports 100 people for going 1mph over the limit ought to be be worried. His actions are not something society generally thinks is a good thing.
- potato3732842 1y ago>There's no need for violence. Then what what underpins the fines?
- pimlottc 1y ago“More Dunkin”? Is that an auto correct type for “more common”?
- ffsm8 1y agoOof, yes. I edited it
- mhuffman 1y ago>This is a phenomenal application of how fine-based bounties can be used to rapidly improve compliance with the law. This type of thing can get out of hand quickly. Without me giving controversial examples, just imagine for yourself the types of things that different states can make a crime, add a fine, then offer to give other citizens part or all of that fine if they turn in others. After that, think of how unscrupulous businesses could use it against competition.
- renewiltord 1y agoYeah, like the ADA for example. We should not have started down that slippery slope. Repeal the ADA!
- hiAndrewQuinn 1y agoCompliance with the law is a separate issue from the contents of the law. If switching to a fine-based bounty system like this suddenly causes an uproar over a given law, then I submit the proper thing is to look over that law and perhaps tear it down. Any "law" that people put up with because it isn't enforced 9 times out of 10 is little more than a tax upon those too honest to get away with it. As for businesses using it against one another in competition: Same deal, I think that's an excellent thing. If this idling law causes NYC businesses to shift en masse to faster loading and unloading practices because their competitors are watching them like hawks, I don't think that's a bad thing.
- mhuffman 1y ago>Compliance with the law is a separate issue from the contents of the law. Agree. More of my thought is what happens when everyone is incentivized with money to spy on everyone else? How can you misuse this as a government? How can unscrupulous businesses misuse this? >If switching to a fine-based bounty system like this suddenly causes an uproar over a given law, then I submit the proper thing is to look over that law and perhaps tear it down. I would submit that there is the danger that people might want to keep a bad law if they continue to make money by snitching. In fact, money is the exact wrong incentive for this sort of thing. >Any "law" that people put up with because it isn't enforced 9 times out of 10 is little more than a tax upon those too honest to get away with it. Think a little harder and see if you can imagine why a law that isn't strongly enforced still might exist.
- raxxorraxor 1y agoThere always has been some kind of problem with any snitching app there was. I don't see how this will be different. I don't think it will see broad adoption, but there will be "power users", who usually pose a problem as well. I hate people leaving cars idling, but I don't like any form of bounty app. This is the wrong kind of law enforcement.
- 12ian34 1y agoWhat's the problem? Why is this the wrong kind of law enforcement?
- garyfirestorm 1y agoBecause it loses nuance. If it was a meat truck trying to maintain temperature of the items while being stuck in a delivery paper work - now potentially being fined for keeping the meat at right temp!
- alphan0n 1y agoSuch considerations have been accounted for. [0] > Exceptions include, but are not limited to, when an idling on-road medium/heavy-duty vehicle is: Stuck in traffic or otherwise required to remain motionless. Performing maintenance tasks or powering an auxiliary function or apparatus, such as a refrigeration unit or lift, requiring power from the primary motive engine. [0] https://dec.ny.gov/environmental-protection/air-quality/controlling-motor-vehicle-pollution/heavy-duty-vehicles https://dec.ny.gov/environmental-protection/air-quality/cont...
- potato3732842 1y agoAs much as I hate the cops I actually trust a cop to be a more impartial arbiter of what does and doesn't fit that definition than some snooty white collar worker who just has a snitching app on their phone.
- 1y ago
- aaron695 1y ago[dead]