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Your "terrorists" militias predate formation of Islamic Republic of Iran, in 1979. Yasser Arafat, and all other Palestinian liberators were also labeled as ter

Your "terrorists" militias predate formation of Islamic Republic of Iran, in 1979. Yasser Arafat, and all other Palestinian liberators were also labeled as terrorists. Can you name one Palestinian who has fought against Israel's occupation and is not considered a terrorist by you? https://jcpa.org/the-parallels-between-yahya-sinwar-and-yasser-arafat/ https://jcpa.org/the-parallels-between-yahya-sinwar-and-yass...

dontTREATonme 1y ago
Can you name a single Palestinian who has actually moved the needle on a functioning democratic Palestinian state? Every single current and former Palestinian leader has been heavily theocratic, has pledged to kill Jews wherever they are and has never considered sharing any of whatever power he’s gotten with anyone else.
- AlecSchueler 1y ago
  Do you stop to ask what creates the environment where the most extreme views flourish and gain traction?
  - Ray20 1y ago
    Islamist majority?
    - AlecSchueler 1y ago
      Nope, Islamism is an extreme position so that gets you no further in the answering the question. What set the stage for an Islamist majority? Again I assert that extreme politics don't develop in vacuums.
      - dontTREATonme 1y ago
        And here you are continuing to dehumanize and remove all agency for an entire religion now. Truly the bigotry required to hold these beliefs is breathtaking.
        AlecSchueler 1y ago
        I'm not doing that in any way. Islamism != Islam, and I'm not suggesting that the entire population of following Islamist beliefs, only that there's an environment where it can gain traction. Please explain your reading if you're going to make such personal attacks.
        dontTREATonme 1y ago
        You’re missing the point because you’re so unaware of your own enormous bigotry. All Muslims have their own agency. They are all humans capable of making their own decisions. And like all humans are happy to be held responsible for the decisions they make. You do not believe the above.
        AlecSchueler 1y ago
        I'm honestly not sure if this is satire or why you feel the need to tell me what I believe. > All Muslims have their own agency. They are all humans capable of making their own decisions. And like all humans are happy to be held responsible for the decisions they make. And I'm not sure why you feel I don't recognise the agency of Muslims? As I said previously please make an argument or explain your position and I'll respond to it, but it feels absurd to entertain these seemingly baseless ad hominems. I grew up in a conflict zone and feel that I have some understanding of the group dynamics. That's totally reasonable and I encourage you to ask yourself if your apparent anger and incredulity here is misplaced.
        dontTREATonme 1y ago
        You’re speaking in innuendo so I’m responding in kind. Plainly state your argument, which you haven’t done yet, instead opting for an odd vaguely veiled bigotry about Muslims’ ability to make their own choices.
        AlecSchueler 1y ago
        I'm saying that Western colonial practices and violent Zionism created a situation where many people in Palestine, and beyond, felt no other choice but to support a violent counter campaign. Your turn.
      - golol 1y ago
        The thing is it doesn't help. Yes of course the horrible situation of the palestinians promotes extremism, but you still have to face that there is a lot of extremism. What was Israel to do before October 7 (besides making sure Oct 7 could not happen)? Of course there are ppints where history could have gone in a better direction but I really don't see an easy way for Israel to achieve a better situation. Say they had withdraw from the west bank in 2018 for some reason. Who says that Oct 7 would still not have happened on a much greater scale? In fact I find it quite likely that it would. And then you might be looking at 3000 dead Israelis instead. The only rational reason for the Oct 7 attacks I can see is that Hamas wants to incite as much violence as possible to put as much political pressure as possible on Israel due to the inevitable retaliation. So Oct 7 would have made even more sense, as the deoccupation of the west bank is far from the total of their political goals.
  - dontTREATonme 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
- orwin 1y ago
  No? The issue US had with the PLF is that it was controlled by Marxist. the theocratic pro-palestine movements didn't start until the 90s.
  - dontTREATonme 1y ago
    Totally false. Every single palestinian org has been founded by and for Muslims.
    - orwin 1y ago
      Yeah, PLFP was not at all Marxist-Leninist, used islamic arguments and not ethnomarxist ones, opposed women taking a role in politics and forced them to wear the hijab, didnt allow Coptic Christians or Jews in the movement, and talked about god and not oppression of workers /s You just have no idea of what you're talking about.
- tdeck 1y ago
  This is like complaining that Nat Turner didn't move the needle on moving the US toward universal suffrage.
  - dontTREATonme 1y ago
    Right because slaves in the American south were offered freedom tens of times but refused it always bec it might have involved some compromise they didn’t like. These childish comparisons don’t even pass the sniff test.
    - tdeck 1y ago
      When were the Palestinians able to exercise their legally affirmed right of return? I must have missed that.
      - dontTREATonme 1y ago
        In 1947 when they chose to leave. In 1948-1967 when the Arab states controlled 95% of the land that these Arabs want to return to. Wars have consequences, if you initiate a war and lose, you’re not gonna get everything back. That’s the risk of war. I have no idea what “legally affirmed” means in the context of sovereign states. The UN, or even the UNSC passing something doesn’t actually mean anything as it applies to sovereign nations. Paraphrasing Andrew Jackson: a law is only as good as the ability to enforce it. A bunch of random people agreeing to something even if they call themselves “The United Nations” doesn’t mean anything if that group of friends doesn’t have the will or ability to enforce whatever they’ve agreed to. They’re akin to you and your drinking buddies passing out edicts after one to many dry martinis.
UltraSane 1y ago
All of that Palestine resistance to Israel has accomplished nothing except misery for Palestinians.
- Hikikomori 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - golol 1y ago
    The west bank seems to not be doing so bad compared to Gaza.
  - UltraSane 1y ago
    You should stop lying about a non-existent genocide. Israel just wants to live in peace. This is why 20% of the Israel population is Arab and 0% of Gaza and the West Bank are Jewish.
    - Hikikomori 1y ago
      Just living in peace while stealing the homes and land of the locals.
      - UltraSane 1y ago
        "Just living in peace while stealing the homes and land of the locals." No. Jews migrated to Ottoman controlled land legally and paid for it. Palestinians were offered their own country but rejected that offer in favor of trying to expel the Jews and taking their land. Then they spend the next 70 years trying and failing to destroy Israel and rejecting every offer of their own country.
        Hikikomori 1y ago
        The Nakba was a big nothingburger and nothing is going in in the west bank right? This is getting old, do you have any fresh hasbara for me?
golol 1y ago
If you fight in an active civil war you are not a terrorist (1948 Arab-Israeli war) If you strike military targets of an occupation force in a time of guerilla warfare you are not a terrorist. (Many palestinian fighters when there is an active conflict with Israel) If you strike military targets of an occupation force in a time of relative peace, and your reignition of violence has no goal of achieving anything for your people, you are probably not a terrorist, but probably doing something wrong and stupid and horrible that hurts your own civilians, driven by nationalism or ideology or whatever. (Palestinian fighters on October 7 that struck military bases for example). If you strike civilian targets or tage hostages, you are a terrorist. And worse if you do it at a time of relative peace to ignite violence against your own people. Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthi's have engaged in plenty of the latter since a long time. By the way, if you level a building with 8 militants and 20 civilians that is brutal urban warcare but not terrorism. If you go to a festival and kill predominantly hundreds of civilians, that's terrorism.

dontTREATonme 1y ago

Can you name a single Palestinian who has actually moved the needle on a functioning democratic Palestinian state? Every single current and former Palestinian leader has been heavily theocratic, has pledged to kill Jews wherever they are and has never considered sharing any of whatever power he’s gotten with anyone else.

AlecSchueler 1y ago
Do you stop to ask what creates the environment where the most extreme views flourish and gain traction?
- Ray20 1y ago
  Islamist majority?
  - AlecSchueler 1y ago
    Nope, Islamism is an extreme position so that gets you no further in the answering the question. What set the stage for an Islamist majority? Again I assert that extreme politics don't develop in vacuums.
    - dontTREATonme 1y ago
      And here you are continuing to dehumanize and remove all agency for an entire religion now. Truly the bigotry required to hold these beliefs is breathtaking.
      - AlecSchueler 1y ago
        I'm not doing that in any way. Islamism != Islam, and I'm not suggesting that the entire population of following Islamist beliefs, only that there's an environment where it can gain traction. Please explain your reading if you're going to make such personal attacks.
        dontTREATonme 1y ago
        You’re missing the point because you’re so unaware of your own enormous bigotry. All Muslims have their own agency. They are all humans capable of making their own decisions. And like all humans are happy to be held responsible for the decisions they make. You do not believe the above.
        AlecSchueler 1y ago
        I'm honestly not sure if this is satire or why you feel the need to tell me what I believe. > All Muslims have their own agency. They are all humans capable of making their own decisions. And like all humans are happy to be held responsible for the decisions they make. And I'm not sure why you feel I don't recognise the agency of Muslims? As I said previously please make an argument or explain your position and I'll respond to it, but it feels absurd to entertain these seemingly baseless ad hominems. I grew up in a conflict zone and feel that I have some understanding of the group dynamics. That's totally reasonable and I encourage you to ask yourself if your apparent anger and incredulity here is misplaced.
        dontTREATonme 1y ago
        You’re speaking in innuendo so I’m responding in kind. Plainly state your argument, which you haven’t done yet, instead opting for an odd vaguely veiled bigotry about Muslims’ ability to make their own choices.
        AlecSchueler 1y ago
        I'm saying that Western colonial practices and violent Zionism created a situation where many people in Palestine, and beyond, felt no other choice but to support a violent counter campaign. Your turn.
    - golol 1y ago
      The thing is it doesn't help. Yes of course the horrible situation of the palestinians promotes extremism, but you still have to face that there is a lot of extremism. What was Israel to do before October 7 (besides making sure Oct 7 could not happen)? Of course there are ppints where history could have gone in a better direction but I really don't see an easy way for Israel to achieve a better situation. Say they had withdraw from the west bank in 2018 for some reason. Who says that Oct 7 would still not have happened on a much greater scale? In fact I find it quite likely that it would. And then you might be looking at 3000 dead Israelis instead. The only rational reason for the Oct 7 attacks I can see is that Hamas wants to incite as much violence as possible to put as much political pressure as possible on Israel due to the inevitable retaliation. So Oct 7 would have made even more sense, as the deoccupation of the west bank is far from the total of their political goals.
- dontTREATonme 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
orwin 1y ago
No? The issue US had with the PLF is that it was controlled by Marxist. the theocratic pro-palestine movements didn't start until the 90s.
- dontTREATonme 1y ago
  Totally false. Every single palestinian org has been founded by and for Muslims.
  - orwin 1y ago
    Yeah, PLFP was not at all Marxist-Leninist, used islamic arguments and not ethnomarxist ones, opposed women taking a role in politics and forced them to wear the hijab, didnt allow Coptic Christians or Jews in the movement, and talked about god and not oppression of workers /s You just have no idea of what you're talking about.
tdeck 1y ago
This is like complaining that Nat Turner didn't move the needle on moving the US toward universal suffrage.
- dontTREATonme 1y ago
  Right because slaves in the American south were offered freedom tens of times but refused it always bec it might have involved some compromise they didn’t like. These childish comparisons don’t even pass the sniff test.
  - tdeck 1y ago
    When were the Palestinians able to exercise their legally affirmed right of return? I must have missed that.
    - dontTREATonme 1y ago
      In 1947 when they chose to leave. In 1948-1967 when the Arab states controlled 95% of the land that these Arabs want to return to. Wars have consequences, if you initiate a war and lose, you’re not gonna get everything back. That’s the risk of war. I have no idea what “legally affirmed” means in the context of sovereign states. The UN, or even the UNSC passing something doesn’t actually mean anything as it applies to sovereign nations. Paraphrasing Andrew Jackson: a law is only as good as the ability to enforce it. A bunch of random people agreeing to something even if they call themselves “The United Nations” doesn’t mean anything if that group of friends doesn’t have the will or ability to enforce whatever they’ve agreed to. They’re akin to you and your drinking buddies passing out edicts after one to many dry martinis.

UltraSane 1y ago

All of that Palestine resistance to Israel has accomplished nothing except misery for Palestinians.

Hikikomori 1y ago
[flagged]
- golol 1y ago
  The west bank seems to not be doing so bad compared to Gaza.
- UltraSane 1y ago
  You should stop lying about a non-existent genocide. Israel just wants to live in peace. This is why 20% of the Israel population is Arab and 0% of Gaza and the West Bank are Jewish.
  - Hikikomori 1y ago
    Just living in peace while stealing the homes and land of the locals.
    - UltraSane 1y ago
      "Just living in peace while stealing the homes and land of the locals." No. Jews migrated to Ottoman controlled land legally and paid for it. Palestinians were offered their own country but rejected that offer in favor of trying to expel the Jews and taking their land. Then they spend the next 70 years trying and failing to destroy Israel and rejecting every offer of their own country.
      - Hikikomori 1y ago
        The Nakba was a big nothingburger and nothing is going in in the west bank right? This is getting old, do you have any fresh hasbara for me?

golol 1y ago

If you fight in an active civil war you are not a terrorist (1948 Arab-Israeli war) If you strike military targets of an occupation force in a time of guerilla warfare you are not a terrorist. (Many palestinian fighters when there is an active conflict with Israel) If you strike military targets of an occupation force in a time of relative peace, and your reignition of violence has no goal of achieving anything for your people, you are probably not a terrorist, but probably doing something wrong and stupid and horrible that hurts your own civilians, driven by nationalism or ideology or whatever. (Palestinian fighters on October 7 that struck military bases for example). If you strike civilian targets or tage hostages, you are a terrorist. And worse if you do it at a time of relative peace to ignite violence against your own people. Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthi's have engaged in plenty of the latter since a long time. By the way, if you level a building with 8 militants and 20 civilians that is brutal urban warcare but not terrorism. If you go to a festival and kill predominantly hundreds of civilians, that's terrorism.