5 ms·

I speak for myself, of course. And the people I know in my community. Do you believe all evangelicals believe the same thing, and that we want the end of the

I speak for myself, of course. And the people I know in my community. Do you believe all evangelicals believe the same thing, and that we want the end of the world to come immediately? Where would you get such a strange idea? I can assure you it is an ignorant thought.

handfuloflight 1y ago
Did I say they all believed in the same thing? I would not make such an absurd claim when Christianity itself is so fractured. Take it up with the sources listed in these articles: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/30/us-evangelical-christians-israel-hamas-war https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/30/us-evangelical... https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/lseupr/2025/02/07/the-politics-of-apocalypse-the-rise-of-american-evangelical-zionism/ https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/lseupr/2025/02/07/the-politics-of-ap... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/half-of-evangelicals-support-israel-because-they-believe-it-is-important-for-fulfilling-end-times-prophecy/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/h... https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1197956512 https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1197956512 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism You are clearly ignorant of what views come under the heading of the evangelicals.
- RickJWagner 1y ago
  You said “you mean they changed their mind”. Who were you referring to? I am obviously proof standing before you that not all evangelicals believe what you suggested. So who were you referring to?
  - handfuloflight 1y ago
    They, as in those evangelicals who subscribe to apocalyptic accelerationism.
    - RickJWagner 1y ago
      Ah. Well, had you said this in the first place the conversation would be a different one. Yes, there is a subset of evangelicals that think along those lines. But not all of us.
  - hedora 1y ago
    A quick internet search says 80% of white male evangelicals voted for Trump in 2024. I assume they’re referring to that, since project 2025 is exactly what they accused the evangelicals of supporting. Still 80 != 100, and not all evangelicals are white males. Alienating the reasonable evangelicals isn’t going to help fix stuff.
  - jrflowers 1y ago
    Could be talking about, for one example, Christians United for Israel, a single evangelical organization with ten million American members. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christians_United_for_Israel https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christians_United_for_Israel Are those ten million Evangelicals somehow not part of the mainstream? Like is it ten million outcasts that the majority of evangelicals do not claim? That seems unlikely due to the fact that the count of self-reported Christian Zionists is in the multiple tens of millions in the US. https://rpl.hds.harvard.edu/news/2021/10/26/video-the-christian-right-and-the-shaping-of-american-policies-in-israel-palestine https://rpl.hds.harvard.edu/news/2021/10/26/video-the-christ... https://www.timesofisrael.com/a-sizeable-us-demographic-many-evangelicals-are-sending-money-and-manpower-to-israel/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/a-sizeable-us-demographic-many... What I think is going on here is you either do want to speak for all evangelicals, and want to convince people that they all believe what you believe, or you are somehow part of a community in which you haven’t heard of or spoken to nearly any of its members. These are the only two ways to make sense of the “who are you talking about?” question; you are either being willfully untruthful about tens of millions of evangelicals, or you simply, somehow, haven’t heard about tens of millions of evangelicals.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
  - tolerance 1y ago
    You're reacting emotionally to handfuloflight's witty remark and now you're caught in this strait-laced and dignified bit to mask you being offended by the remark and caught making a very poor argument. Would it be fair for me to assume that you are an Evangelical who doesn't support Israel's genocide under the theological pretenses that other Evangelicals are known for (i.e., the "apocalyptic accelerationism" handfuloflight refers to)? Would it be fair for me to assume that handfuloflight's remark was solid but fell short in the generalizing way that jokes often lay, because of the possibility that there are Evangelicals who don't support Israel's genocide under the theological pretenses that other Evangelical's are known for because it's a terrible look and indicative of the contemporary fractures that capture the faith at large? Both of ya'll need to be more forthright with your positions instead of performing this constipated do-si-do along the HN guidelines. Give me a good flame war, get flagged, ring up dang and the new dude, or just downvote each other.
    - handfuloflight 1y ago
      I came for the flame war, I stayed for the analysis.
    - RickJWagner 1y ago
      My point is that evangelicals are not a monolith, and not all share the same beliefs. The originating comment makes no hint that it is referring to anything less than 100%. It’s like saying “Black people think…” or “Women want….”, which invariably leads to some not funny generalization. Suggesting all evangelicals want the world to end immediately is in the same vein, IMHO.
      - handfuloflight 1y ago
        I qualified twice that I did not mean it that as a blanket statement, so what new point are you trying to make?
        RickJWagner 1y ago
        I’m now making the point that generalizing evangelicals as a monolith that can ‘change their mind’ in unison is akin to generalizing people by race, gender, etc. I hope you are in agreement on that one. Had your first statement been clear in referring to the subset of evangelicals ( instead of using a pronoun that refers back to the whole, evangelicals ), the statement would not have been properly called ignorant. As it stands, it reads as if all evangelicals wish for Armageddon without delay, which is an ignorant statement.
  - skissane 1y ago
    I think when a lot of people here say "evangelicals" they actually mean "dispensational premillennialists"–who are a significant chunk of "evangelicals", but not the whole But to be fair to the dispensational premillennialists, even many of them would consider the idea that Israeli (or US) military action is somehow "accelerating the end-times" to be distasteful – whether or not they think that action is justified in itself.
anigbrowl 1y ago
C'mon man, you know there are a lot of biblical literalists who are all in on that end times stuff even if you and your social circle don't subscribe to it.
- RickJWagner 1y ago
  I agree, there are some. But not all, or even most.
jrflowers 1y ago
What evangelical church doesn’t believe in the second coming or the significance of the holy land? Like your pastor, at your evangelical church, preaches that these things are not literal? Edit: As someone that grew up evangelical, and has had evangelical friends my entire life, it is very strange to see someone casually say that the rejection of biblical inerrancy is an evangelical thing. It stands in stark contrast to the theology that’s fundamental to the faith. It is literally as odd as seeing someone get mad when another person says that sainthood or the Eucharist are fundamental tenets to Catholicism. I would certainly want them to clarify what exactly their priest was saying to make them feel otherwise. It is a real religion with a real theology! “Evangelical” isn’t a vibe, it’s a distinct system of worship! Biblical prophecy is very fundamental and a strongly-held belief and value that is taught in every evangelical church I have ever heard of!
- lunar-whitey 1y ago
  There are evangelical movements within American mainline Protestant denominations that broadly hold to amillenialism and do not concern themselves with contemporary speculation regarding eschatology. They receive less attention nationally because they are politically irrelevant.
  - jrflowers 1y ago
    Amillennialism does not necessarily mean a wholesale rejection of the notion of biblical prophecy. If anything it is largely a disagreement about what the fulfillment of biblical prophecy will look like. That aside, of course there are always small movements in every faith, but that isn’t usually super meaningful or helpful when talking about the larger group. I’m sure you can find some Catholics that don’t believe in transubstantiation but nobody is out here painting the church as being Eucharist-neutral.
    - lunar-whitey 1y ago
      I would not characterize entities like the United Methodist Church or the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America as small movements. Both are evangelical churches in the historical sense and neither has a specific position on contemporary political entities as they relate to Biblical prophecies.
eddythompson80 1y ago
Thank you for speaking up man. I'm an evangelical atheist and get sick of people generalizing what all evangelicals think too.
- shadowfox 1y ago
  What exactly is an "evangelical atheist" ?
  - handfuloflight 1y ago
    At one point in the history of the Internet, it was synonymous with Redditor.

handfuloflight 1y ago

Did I say they all believed in the same thing? I would not make such an absurd claim when Christianity itself is so fractured. Take it up with the sources listed in these articles: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/30/us-evangelical-christians-israel-hamas-war https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/30/us-evangelical... https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/lseupr/2025/02/07/the-politics-of-apocalypse-the-rise-of-american-evangelical-zionism/ https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/lseupr/2025/02/07/the-politics-of-ap... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/half-of-evangelicals-support-israel-because-they-believe-it-is-important-for-fulfilling-end-times-prophecy/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/h... https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1197956512 https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1197956512 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism You are clearly ignorant of what views come under the heading of the evangelicals.

RickJWagner 1y ago
You said “you mean they changed their mind”. Who were you referring to? I am obviously proof standing before you that not all evangelicals believe what you suggested. So who were you referring to?
- handfuloflight 1y ago
  They, as in those evangelicals who subscribe to apocalyptic accelerationism.
  - RickJWagner 1y ago
    Ah. Well, had you said this in the first place the conversation would be a different one. Yes, there is a subset of evangelicals that think along those lines. But not all of us.
- hedora 1y ago
  A quick internet search says 80% of white male evangelicals voted for Trump in 2024. I assume they’re referring to that, since project 2025 is exactly what they accused the evangelicals of supporting. Still 80 != 100, and not all evangelicals are white males. Alienating the reasonable evangelicals isn’t going to help fix stuff.
- jrflowers 1y ago
  Could be talking about, for one example, Christians United for Israel, a single evangelical organization with ten million American members. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christians_United_for_Israel https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christians_United_for_Israel Are those ten million Evangelicals somehow not part of the mainstream? Like is it ten million outcasts that the majority of evangelicals do not claim? That seems unlikely due to the fact that the count of self-reported Christian Zionists is in the multiple tens of millions in the US. https://rpl.hds.harvard.edu/news/2021/10/26/video-the-christian-right-and-the-shaping-of-american-policies-in-israel-palestine https://rpl.hds.harvard.edu/news/2021/10/26/video-the-christ... https://www.timesofisrael.com/a-sizeable-us-demographic-many-evangelicals-are-sending-money-and-manpower-to-israel/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/a-sizeable-us-demographic-many... What I think is going on here is you either do want to speak for all evangelicals, and want to convince people that they all believe what you believe, or you are somehow part of a community in which you haven’t heard of or spoken to nearly any of its members. These are the only two ways to make sense of the “who are you talking about?” question; you are either being willfully untruthful about tens of millions of evangelicals, or you simply, somehow, haven’t heard about tens of millions of evangelicals.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- tolerance 1y ago
  You're reacting emotionally to handfuloflight's witty remark and now you're caught in this strait-laced and dignified bit to mask you being offended by the remark and caught making a very poor argument. Would it be fair for me to assume that you are an Evangelical who doesn't support Israel's genocide under the theological pretenses that other Evangelicals are known for (i.e., the "apocalyptic accelerationism" handfuloflight refers to)? Would it be fair for me to assume that handfuloflight's remark was solid but fell short in the generalizing way that jokes often lay, because of the possibility that there are Evangelicals who don't support Israel's genocide under the theological pretenses that other Evangelical's are known for because it's a terrible look and indicative of the contemporary fractures that capture the faith at large? Both of ya'll need to be more forthright with your positions instead of performing this constipated do-si-do along the HN guidelines. Give me a good flame war, get flagged, ring up dang and the new dude, or just downvote each other.
  - handfuloflight 1y ago
    I came for the flame war, I stayed for the analysis.
  - RickJWagner 1y ago
    My point is that evangelicals are not a monolith, and not all share the same beliefs. The originating comment makes no hint that it is referring to anything less than 100%. It’s like saying “Black people think…” or “Women want….”, which invariably leads to some not funny generalization. Suggesting all evangelicals want the world to end immediately is in the same vein, IMHO.
    - handfuloflight 1y ago
      I qualified twice that I did not mean it that as a blanket statement, so what new point are you trying to make?
      - RickJWagner 1y ago
        I’m now making the point that generalizing evangelicals as a monolith that can ‘change their mind’ in unison is akin to generalizing people by race, gender, etc. I hope you are in agreement on that one. Had your first statement been clear in referring to the subset of evangelicals ( instead of using a pronoun that refers back to the whole, evangelicals ), the statement would not have been properly called ignorant. As it stands, it reads as if all evangelicals wish for Armageddon without delay, which is an ignorant statement.
- skissane 1y ago
  I think when a lot of people here say "evangelicals" they actually mean "dispensational premillennialists"–who are a significant chunk of "evangelicals", but not the whole But to be fair to the dispensational premillennialists, even many of them would consider the idea that Israeli (or US) military action is somehow "accelerating the end-times" to be distasteful – whether or not they think that action is justified in itself.

anigbrowl 1y ago

C'mon man, you know there are a lot of biblical literalists who are all in on that end times stuff even if you and your social circle don't subscribe to it.

RickJWagner 1y ago
I agree, there are some. But not all, or even most.

jrflowers 1y ago

What evangelical church doesn’t believe in the second coming or the significance of the holy land? Like your pastor, at your evangelical church, preaches that these things are not literal? Edit: As someone that grew up evangelical, and has had evangelical friends my entire life, it is very strange to see someone casually say that the rejection of biblical inerrancy is an evangelical thing. It stands in stark contrast to the theology that’s fundamental to the faith. It is literally as odd as seeing someone get mad when another person says that sainthood or the Eucharist are fundamental tenets to Catholicism. I would certainly want them to clarify what exactly their priest was saying to make them feel otherwise. It is a real religion with a real theology! “Evangelical” isn’t a vibe, it’s a distinct system of worship! Biblical prophecy is very fundamental and a strongly-held belief and value that is taught in every evangelical church I have ever heard of!

lunar-whitey 1y ago
There are evangelical movements within American mainline Protestant denominations that broadly hold to amillenialism and do not concern themselves with contemporary speculation regarding eschatology. They receive less attention nationally because they are politically irrelevant.
- jrflowers 1y ago
  Amillennialism does not necessarily mean a wholesale rejection of the notion of biblical prophecy. If anything it is largely a disagreement about what the fulfillment of biblical prophecy will look like. That aside, of course there are always small movements in every faith, but that isn’t usually super meaningful or helpful when talking about the larger group. I’m sure you can find some Catholics that don’t believe in transubstantiation but nobody is out here painting the church as being Eucharist-neutral.
  - lunar-whitey 1y ago
    I would not characterize entities like the United Methodist Church or the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America as small movements. Both are evangelical churches in the historical sense and neither has a specific position on contemporary political entities as they relate to Biblical prophecies.

eddythompson80 1y ago

Thank you for speaking up man. I'm an evangelical atheist and get sick of people generalizing what all evangelicals think too.

shadowfox 1y ago
What exactly is an "evangelical atheist" ?
- handfuloflight 1y ago
  At one point in the history of the Internet, it was synonymous with Redditor.